Enough is enough

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

I think they're doing more than what they are reasonably obligated to do.

I would kill to get free lifelong psychological support for me and my family. That is massive. They also have an injury and hardship fund that subsidises healthcare for footy-related injuries.

IMO they could do more regarding lifetime healthcare for footy-related injuries regardless of cost - players like Matty Egan will rack up medical bills in excess of payments.

But at the end of the day, they can't just drive down to the house of Player X or Y and make sure they're not about to do the unthinkable. They have a duty of care, not a duty of parenthood.

The courts will decide that ultimately to be fair. It isnt as clear cut as you are saying. If it was the situation today wouldnt exist

You can get free psychological support for you and your family over the phone with any decent company.... I think they are legally obligated to? Cant think of any company that doesnt provide such in W.A

You dont think Ben Cousins having more support helped him get over the hump? You think it was just pure luck or what? I think/know finances helped him... finances the AFL should be providing, not Bens dad...

 

[iameviljez]

It being adequate for some isnt the goal. It needs to be adequate for everyone.... If it isnt adequate for everyone thats the problem to solve

I look at Ben Cousins and say "What if Adam Hunter had the same financial support" .

I mean, do you think AFLPA paid for Ben Cousins rehab stints? or did he have to do that himself?

You probably have 20, 30 others in the same boat as Hunter post-career - but the AFLPA and the AFL can't just invent 20 to 30 cushy six-figure jobs and dole them out to those who identify themselves as being in a mental health crisis. Even if they did, it doesn't necessarily fix the problem. Spud Frawley had a great career in the media and it didn't save him. Troy Selwood had a meaningful career post-footy at Geelong, as Football Operations Manager and Talent ID Manager.

Just because Cousins appears clean for now, doesn't mean you can "fix" everyone, or that you are obligated to do so.

 

[iameviljez]

You can get free psychological support for you and your family over the phone with any decent company.... I think they are legally obligated to? Cant think of any company that doesnt provide such in W.A

This isn't over the phone, it's in-person sessions with professional psychologists and psychiatrists, not a call to Beyond Blue or a corporate-appointed counsellor.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Arguing that the system should be good enough to guarantee the health and well being of every past player is like arguing that the road toll should be zero.

It doesn’t matter how good the system is, the sad reality is that some people will always fall through the cracks.

Apart from anything else, success in this sort of thing tends to hinge on the person wanting and accepting the help that’s out there. And even then there’s no guarantees. Some demons simply refuse to be slain.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

This isn't over the phone, it's in-person sessions with professional psychologists and psychiatrists, not a call to Beyond Blue or a corporate-appointed counsellor.

This isnt true for W.A clubs

Its true during your career but not adfter it. Daniel Chicks spoken about it previously. He only got paid suppot from the club when he went to the media.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

Arguing that the system should be good enough to guarantee the health and well being of every past player is like arguing that the road toll should be zero.

It doesn’t matter how good the system is, the sad reality is that some people will always fall through the cracks.

Apart from anything else, success in this sort of thing tends to hinge on the person wanting and accepting the help that’s out there. And even then there’s no guarantees. Some demons simply refuse to be slain.

If the road toll is at its highest ever, do the government ignore it? Or do they invest more to improve the situation and make it better?

Success being on the person just isnt true. The treatment you get makes a huge difference. You think the people at Greylands have the same chance of success as someone in a private facility down south? If its up to the person then that should be the case yeah?

 

[iameviljez]

This isnt true for W.A clubs

Its true during your career but not adfter it. Daniel Chicks spoken about it previously. He only got paid suppot from the club when he went to the media.

AFLPA exists for all players, and, critically, for past players. I don't know whether it had the same services at Daniel Chick's time.

 

[iameviljez]

Because of the hundreds of people saying otherwise? You cherry picked 1 person who agrees its good enough and you got lawsuits and many others saying its not..

Hundreds? This is Donald Trump level referencing...

There are class actions going on against the AFL at the moment for compensation for CTE sustained in the course of an AFL career. That's a reasonable thing IMO - injury sustained in the course of employment should be compensated, but the question is how much compo is reasonable, and also whether the club doctors were negligent in the management of concussion at the time.

But that's not the same thing as not doing enough for player mental health after retirement. Not all players with bad mental health have CTE, and of those who do, not all can be made right simply with rehab, psychological help and a guaranteed job.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

If the road toll is at its highest ever, do the government ignore it? Or do they invest more to improve the situation and make it better?

Success being on the person just isnt true. The treatment you get makes a huge difference. You think the people at Greylands have the same chance of success as someone in a private facility down south? If its up to the person then that should be the case yeah?

and if what you are doing isnt working, then you need to review it and make the changes necessary to achieve the desired result.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

This isnt true for W.A clubs

Its true during your career but not adfter it. Daniel Chicks spoken about it previously. He only got paid suppot from the club when he went to the media.

Daniel Chick famously went to the media ahead of the 2015 grand final. It’s now 2025.

If the road toll is at its highest ever, do the government ignore it? Or do they invest more to improve the situation and make it better?

Success being on the person just isnt true. The treatment you get makes a huge difference. You think the people at Greylands have the same chance of success as someone in a private facility down south? If its up to the person then that should be the case yeah?

It’s not solely on the person, obviously. But that’s a factor. And the chances of success of the best facility in the world still aren’t going to be 100 per cent.

You’re taking two tragedies and declaring that they prove your point without (a) knowing any of the detail about either of them and whether they’re actually relevant to your argument or (b) acknowledging any of the complexities or realities of what you’re arguing.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

Hundreds? This is Donald Trump level referencing...

There are class actions going on against the AFL at the moment for compensation for CTE sustained in the course of an AFL career. That's a reasonable thing IMO - injury sustained in the course of employment should be compensated, but the question is how much compo is reasonable, and also whether the club doctors were negligent in the management of concussion at the time.

But that's not the same thing as not doing enough for player mental health after retirement. Not all players with bad mental health have CTE, and of those who do, not all can be made right simply with rehab, psychological help and a guaranteed job.

Mental health is health. Stop trying to pretend they are seperate. If your not mentally healthy, your not a healthy person... Trying to seperate them is just a excuse to underfund it basically. It should be considered and funded as part of the same program.

The writing probably says why they want to seperate it. Mental Health is a ongoing cost. A hip surgery is a 8,000 dollar one off contribution. AFL are too scared to put themselves into financially supporting a long-term situation so just dive away from it with some half assed phone number...

In the end you can keep supporting the AFLS cause but the results dont match up to what you are saying. You asked before, does AFL have more issues with health then the general public... I mean they have more issues then their sporting counterparts for one thing. NRL are ahead of the AFL already. What the AFL guys are suing for is already provided by thr NRL you will find.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

Daniel Chick famously went to the media ahead of the 2015 grand final. It’s now 2025.



It’s not solely on the person, obviously. But that’s a factor. And the chances of success of the best facility in the world still aren’t going to be 100 per cent.

You’re taking two tragedies and declaring that they prove your point without (a) knowing any of the detail about either of them and whether they’re actually relevant to your argument or (b) acknowledging any of the complexities or realities of what you’re arguing.

2 is your imaginary number. Its many more then that. This thread has pointed this out multiple times..

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

2 is your imaginary number. Its many more then that. This thread has pointed this out multiple times..

You’re particularly concerned with the last two days though, no?

Well you can ignore the last 2 days too if you want too….

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

You’re particularly concerned with the last two days though, no?

It does matter doesnt it?

You need to add it as opposedf to 100% ignore it

 

[demondavey]

The link between CTE and suicide is pretty much taken for granted now, this isn't new.

So how many suicudes will it take to hit home? Or does it take a big name like Joel Selwood in 5 years to make an impact?

 

[demondavey]

Problem is, you can get a concussion from simply standing up. There's no logic to it. Short of laying down 24 hours per day and not moving, you're at risk of concussion

Right, so standing up carries the same risk as playing modern AFL?

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

It does matter doesnt it?

You need to add it as opposedf to 100% ignore it

No one’s 100 per cent ignoring it.

You’re leaping to conclusions about them. You’ve already written the coroner’s reports and found the AFL liable.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

No one’s 100 per cent ignoring it.

You’re leaping to conclusions about them. You’ve already written the coroner’s reports and found the AFL liable.

Cant see how they are not liable. What could the coroner possibly say that meant a lack of support wasnt the cause? Unless the media is lieing its pretty clear

And the examples where we know they are liable....what happened with those/

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Cant see how they are not liable. What could the coroner possibly say that meant a lack of support wasnt the cause? Unless the media is lieing its pretty clear

Proving my point and missing my point all in the same paragraph, impressive.

 

[Norwegian Blue]

One mind blowing fact is that Hunter was living with his mum in Withers, probably top 5 worst suburbs in all WA. I know cause I lived there from 18 to 22. Maybe the AFL could implement a rule that once you get a contract above a certain amount if you don't already own a house half of your salary has to go into paying off a house somewhere less drug addled than Withers.

The average price of a house in Withers is approximately what Hunter made every 3 months during his AFL days

It's hardly the AFL's fault he shoved all his earnings up his nose.

 

[iameviljez]

Mental health is health. Stop trying to pretend they are seperate. If your not mentally healthy, your not a healthy person... Trying to seperate them is just a excuse to underfund it basically. It should be considered and funded as part of the same program.

That's a bit like saying that all bears are furry, hence if it's furry, it's a bear. Yes, mental health is health, but that doesn't mean that the two recent suicides could have been prevented through funding post-career CTE compensation.

The writing probably says why they want to seperate it. Mental Health is a ongoing cost. A hip surgery is a 8,000 dollar one off contribution. AFL are too scared to put themselves into financially supporting a long-term situation so just dive away from it with some half assed phone number...

Why do you keep saying "a phone number"? We have clearly shown you that it is free one-on-one sessions with a psychologist or a psychiatrist for players and ex-players.

In the end you can keep supporting the AFLS cause but the results dont match up to what you are saying. You asked before, does AFL have more issues with health then the general public... I mean they have more issues then their sporting counterparts for one thing. NRL are ahead of the AFL already. What the AFL guys are suing for is already provided by thr NRL you will find.

What does the NRL offer than the AFL doesn't? The ex-AFL players want compo for CTE suffered. I don't think the NRL offers that?

I agree that the AFL is far from perfect, but they aren't responsible for Troy Selwood or Adam Hunter's deaths.

 

[iameviljez]

So how many suicudes will it take to hit home? Or does it take a big name like Joel Selwood in 5 years to make an impact?

I honestly think it is hitting home. The participation rate of soccer for kids is more than 2.5 times that of AFL.

But the problem is that, as with a lot of contact sports, you can't really minimise the risk to something like an acceptable level without completely destroying the game. Soccer will be ok - even if you get rid of headers, the game will change, but it will still keep what makes it soccer. You can't legislate those sub-concussive hits out of Australian Rules.

 

[DangerSloane]

Im sorry but this needs its own thread and needs one ASAP

Enough is enough

If AFL can find 600 million for ****ing Gold Coast they can find some for well the actual players

We as fans need to demand better. This is just not on. Its a black stain on the game right now. It cannot contimue for even 1 day more. The top brass need to have some class and announce some funding for supporting current and ex players NOW.

Dancing around the subject and losing 1 more life cant happen.

FIX IT NOW!!!!

You could throw every cent in the world at suicide prevention and it would be wasted.

Money doesnt solve cultural or mental health issues.

Should more be done? Probably...but most of the time people have no idea what others are going through privately, and until that changes there isnt a lot that can be done.

 

[Feerits Elf]

I think they know the truth more then you and I

AFL just staving off the wolves. Nothing much more to it then that.

Its a bit more serious then what you are suggesting here

Im 100% sure he got more then 8,000 bucks (what a stupid number)

Regardless of what it must or must not be, they have a higher duty of care then the normal workplace.

Sometimes in life action is needed sooner then another 5 years of hand sitting where people need to sue to find out what support they should get…

To me it seems like you care more about one upping me then well mental health and the subject at hand.

We can’t all live in a lane where we hope and believe the best rather then the evidence in front of our eyes

I think people saying a effort is okay and the fact they get more then us are not appreciating what the game actually is and what players give up.

Its much much deeper then that.

Its many more then that.

Hey look, I don't want to be that guy but you keep writing "then".

 

[iameviljez]

Hey look, I don't want to be that guy but you keep writing "then".

Ok than, what are you going to do about it?