Strategy 3 tall forwards vs 2 tall forwards

[The Nostradamus]

Massive pet peeve of mine that I’d be keen to monitor over the year

Last year we looked a lot better when we had 3 tall forwards (teakle, pink and larkey) vs when we had just the 2 in the first half of the year

Most teams play 3 KPF and their main ruck so that the third tall is the second ruck
-Amartey, McLean, McDonald and grundy
-JUH, naughton, Darcy and english
-Thilthorpe, Fogarty, Tex and obrien etc
Could list nearly every club

In our wisdom so far it looks like we may stupidly play only 2 KPF and a ruck meaning darling might have to second ruck and leave larkey triple teamed as the lone KPF when he does

Hopefully this changes and we have larkey, darling and one of teakle or Finnbar playing

That set up will allow us to not get intercepted as much and allow our mids to see better options going forward

 

[DuckYeah]

Zurhaar will play as that “third tall” type

 

[ferball]

2023 - Collingwood - how many tall forwards?
2022 - Geelong - How many tall forwards?
2021 - Melbourne ...
2017, 2019, 2020 - Richmond ...
2018 - WC...
2016 - Dogs...
2013, 2014, 2015 - Hawthorn etc..

Not alot of trippple towers in there Nosta.

 

[The Nostradamus]

Zurhaar will play as that “third tall” type

He’s a medium like a fritsch

You want them on a medium defender to outbody them

They shouldn’t ever be getting a KPD on them when a second KPF pinch hits ruck

 

[The Nostradamus]

2023 - Collingwood - how many tall forwards?
2022 - Geelong - How many tall forwards?
2021 - Melbourne ...
2017, 2019, 2020 - Richmond ...
2018 - WC...
2016 - Dogs...
2013, 2014, 2015 - Hawthorn etc..

Not alot of trippple towers in there Nosta.

Dees had brown, McDonald, jackson and Gawn

Hawks had buddy, roughy and Gunston….plus their ruck hale

Eagles had Kennedy, Lycett, vardy and darling

Dogs had stringer, Boyd, cordy and Roughead

You are right tho that pies, cats and tigers went shorter with just

Cats tho have Blicavs as a roaming extra KPP

 

[DuckYeah]

He’s a medium like a fritsch

You want them on a medium defender to outbody them

They shouldn’t ever be getting a KPD on them when a second KPF pinch hits ruck

Thats when he should be on his bike and running the KD out if position, racking up disposals and creating scores

 

[The Nostradamus]

Thats when he should be on his bike and running the KD out if position, racking up disposals and creating scores

That leaves one key target up forward in larkey

it’s why you want the extra tall

Creates further mismatches down the line

 

[ferball]

Dees had brown, McDonald, jackson and Gawn

Eagles had Kennedy, Lycett, vardy and darling

Dogs had stringer, Boyd, cordy and Roughead

You are right tho that pies, cats and tigers went shorter

I think there's a difference between a third forward and a resting ruckman.

Buddy was only there for one flag and Gunstan isn't a KPF.

Either is Stringer. He's Cam Zurhaar. Also in that game the other (non Boyd) talls and Stringer were three of the five players with least ToG.

I'm not completely averse to it. Worked great at times with us a decade ago. The key would be mobility tho. That's one thing all the successful forward lines have regardless of the size of the players - they're all mobile forward lines and they keep moving.

 

[The Nostradamus]

2 KPF and 2 rucks to me is interchangeable with 3 talls and a ruck

The main point is to have 4kpp there in the side

And allow your 2 KPF to always stay forward and not have to ruck

 

[perplexed]

If Comben is playing forward/ruck, then three tall forwards is fine. But if it is Teakle or Maley, they don't offer enough in either position. We would be better off playing an extra running player. Our forward structure is a problem, but transition is a bigger one.

 

[The Nostradamus]

If Comben is playing forward/ruck, then three tall forwards is fine. But if it is Teakle or Maley, they don't offer enough in either position. We would be better off playing an extra running player. Our forward structure is a problem, but transition is a bigger one.

Teakle straightened us up last year

Compared to the first half of the year where we had an extra runner

 

[ferball]

Teakle straightened us up last year

Compared to the first half of the year where we had an extra runner

I think it was more complex than that but its mostly true. Everything changed after the bye but Teakle did provide us with something as well.

 

[perplexed]

Teakle straightened us up last year

Compared to the first half of the year where we had an extra runner

I prefer the structure too, otherwise Larkey spends nearly half the game as the only tall forward (assuming Darling spends roughly 25% on the bench and 20% in the ruck). Maybe avoiding that is enough. But I find it hard to believe that Teakle is our best option.

 

[The Nostradamus]

I prefer the structure too, otherwise Larkey spends nearly half the game as the only tall forward (assuming Darling spends roughly 25% on the bench and 20% in the ruck). Maybe avoiding that is enough. But I find it hard to believe that Teakle is our best option.

Teakle or Finnbar for that 3rd tall second ruck role

Finnbar has more upside but is raw, teakle is serviceable and plays the role well

CCJ when he comes back in May is the other option later in the year

 

[perplexed]

Teakle or Finnbar for that 3rd tall second ruck role

Finnbar has more upside but is raw, teakle is serviceable and plays the role well

CCJ when he comes back in May is the other option later in the year

Maley, maybe one day, hopefully soon, same with Goad. For now, Comben is easily the best option.

 

[FootySmartSimpson]

2023 - Collingwood - how many tall forwards?
2022 - Geelong - How many tall forwards?
2021 - Melbourne ...
2017, 2019, 2020 - Richmond ...
2018 - WC...
2016 - Dogs...
2013, 2014, 2015 - Hawthorn etc..

Not alot of trippple towers in there Nosta.

This logic gets rolled out a fair bit. The difference is they actually had a functioning and cohesive midfield. We do not.

Not only that, but compare those team’s back lines and small forwards to ours. I guarantee the realisations will make your skin crawl.

If we can have 2.5/3 talls playing to push the opposition, we should. Zurhaar is not that either. He is almost strictly a medium lead-up forward. And mediocre one at that. Comben forward changes due to his speed, hunger for the contest, defensive application and versatility.

 

[ohmygewd]

Darling, Larkey, Curtis
Zurhaar, Comben, Sheezel

Whether its 2 KPF, 1 x ruck/fwd and 3 x Med-Fwd or the above, we lack a small crumbing forward...N.Watson would be handy now even Joe Berry, hell l would have paid Matt Owies his money/contact.

Kick to a contest, kick to a contest....it's no good when it spills forward and all these top 10 midfielders that we have, aren't front and centre of these packs?

 

[buttox]

Massive pet peeve of mine that I’d be keen to monitor over the year

Last year we looked a lot better when we had 3 tall forwards (teakle, pink and larkey) vs when we had just the 2 in the first half of the year

Most teams play 3 KPF and their main ruck so that the third tall is the second ruck
-Amartey, McLean, McDonald and grundy
-JUH, naughton, Darcy and english
-Thilthorpe, Fogarty, Tex and obrien etc
Could list nearly every club

In our wisdom so far it looks like we may stupidly play only 2 KPF and a ruck meaning darling might have to second ruck and leave larkey triple teamed as the lone KPF when he does

Hopefully this changes and we have larkey, darling and one of teakle or Finnbar playing

That set up will allow us to not get intercepted as much and allow our mids to see better options going forward

Spot on mate.
We looked better last year with plodders like teakle and pink playing the role.
Darling was all hyped for his defensive stuff surely we are better this year with the same setup.
Personally I'd try finbar first as a f/r. Teakle or Goad would work also but I doubt goads ready.
I think finbar would be best around the ground rucking. More open space for a handball dish off so we can avoid him kicking.

 

[perplexed]

Darling, Larkey, Curtis
Zurhaar, Comben, Sheezel

Whether its 2 KPF, 1 x ruck/fwd and 3 x Med-Fwd or the above, we lack a small crumbing forward...N.Watson would be handy now even Joe Berry, hell l would have paid Matt Owies his money/contact.

Kick to a contest, kick to a contest....it's no good when it spills forward and all these top 10 midfielders that we have, aren't front and centre of these packs?

We are desperate for a quality small forward. I was hoping we found a way to get Ollie Hannaford in the last draft. Matt Owies isn't the answer though, he is more a lead and mark type, a poor man's Paul Curtis.

 

[Fish Sticks]

I prefer the structure too, otherwise Larkey spends nearly half the game as the only tall forward (assuming Darling spends roughly 25% on the bench and 20% in the ruck). Maybe avoiding that is enough. But I find it hard to believe that Teakle is our best option.

Darling won’t spend 25% on bench nor 20% in the ruck.
It’ll be much closer to 10% bench & 10% ruck.
Comben is the only option I would like as the third tall/ruck relief.
One of our biggest issues over the last few years is teams waltzing the ball out of our backline due to lack of forward pressure.
Teakle & Maley (yet) are not going to help with that & don’t offer enough goal kicking power or forward smarts to add much to our forward line.
I’d prefer Hansen Jnr or Konstanty who can chase, tackle & crumb the ball.

 

[perplexed]

Darling won’t spend 25% on bench nor 20% in the ruck.
It’ll be much closer to 10% bench & 10% ruck.
Comben is the only option I would like as the third tall/ruck relief.
One of our biggest issues over the last few years is teams waltzing the ball out of our backline due to lack of forward pressure.
Teakle & Maley (yet) are not going to help with that & don’t offer enough goal kicking power or forward smarts to add much to our forward line.
I’d prefer Hansen Jnr or Konstanty who can chase, tackle & crumb the ball.

I agree with all that except your percentages. Is there a main ruckmen who spends 90% of the game on the ground? Or a relief ruck/forward who spends so little time on the bench? At his age, there is no way Darling could do that.

 

[Moti]

Comben should be forward but regardless, we are missing a competitive marking target.

 

[Fish Sticks]

I agree with all that except your percentages. Is there a main ruckmen who spends 90% of the game on the ground? Or a relief ruck/forward who spends so little time on the bench? At his age, there is no way Darling could do that.

Joe Daniher who was arguably the best forward/ruck relief in the comp last year also was no.1 in the entire comp for TOG %
Happy to revisit this when what have a good sample size of TOG stats.
Looking at Xerri TOG last season he avg around 85%
Darlings TOG for WCE over the last few seasons is pushing 95% - he is extremely fit.
It will be a lot closer to 20% of time he is not in the forward line than it will be 50%

 

[cybercrab]

Our forward is too slow as is, I like Teakle but I don't think he should get a game with his current ruck skills.

 

[perplexed]

Joe Daniher who was arguably the best forward/ruck relief in the comp last year also was no.1 in the entire comp for TOG %
Happy to revisit this when what have a good sample size of TOG stats.
Looking at Xerri TOG last season he avg around 85%
Darlings TOG for WCE over the last few seasons is pushing 95% - he is extremely fit.
It will be a lot closer to 20% of time he is not in the forward line than it will be 50%

We'll see. I suspect Joe is a bit of an exception. Not sure who the best comparison would be, but looking at others like McLean, Van Rooyen, Chol or even Teakle last year - my 45% is pretty close to the mark. If Darling can play anything like 95% while relief rucking, I would be very surprised.