AFL Player 5: Elijah Tsatas

[Nuggs Bunny]

 

[Vander18]

We know. You’ve been saying how shit he is ad nauseum.

To say he wasn’t shit in the first half is to wear rose colored glasses of the highest order.

I’ve been fair and objective in my assessment - if you disagree, all good.Don't think I’ve posted with excessive frequency on the subject either.

 

[doug85]

To say he wasn’t shit in the first half is to wear rose colored glasses of the highest order.

I’ve been fair and objective in my assessment - if you disagree, all good.Don't think I’ve posted with excessive frequency on the subject either.

I’m saying you’ve been banging on about how shit Tsatas is obsessively. For weeks

 

[bomberlegend2007]

Bold a lot of people are writing off at 21 year old after one game in the season.

 

[Vander18]

I’m saying you’ve been banging on about how shit Tsatas is obsessively. For weeks

What a lot of crap.

 

[cAsEy_18]

My main issue with Tsatas, and those that say “Give him time, he’ll come good” is - even if he does come good…what he’s good at is just not what we need at all.

His strength is a first hands on the ball clearance guy.
He’s not tough in the clinches like you’ll see Caldwell and Durham be, where even if they don’t win the contest they are immediately hunting the body.
Then enough has been said about his foot skills.

We’re already a good clearance team. It means almost nothing. Tsatas’ strength is literally only winning clearances. Even if he “comes good” - I just don’t see how he progresses us as a team at all.

 

[Westlo]

To say he wasn’t shit in the first half is to wear rose colored glasses of the highest order.

90% of the team were shit in the first half.

 

[ghostdog]

He's going to be a whipping boy.

 

[JayJ20]

My main issue with Tsatas, and those that say “Give him time, he’ll come good” is - even if he does come good…what he’s good at is just not what we need at all.

His strength is a first hands on the ball clearance guy.
He’s not tough in the clinches like you’ll see Caldwell and Durham be, where even if they don’t win the contest they are immediately hunting the body.
Then enough has been said about his foot skills.

We’re already a good clearance team. It means almost nothing. Tsatas’ strength is literally only winning clearances. Even if he “comes good” - I just don’t see how he progresses us as a team at all.

Yep exactly. What he's good at is what Parish is already good at. Based on how he is tracking, he seems to be a mix of Shiel and Parish except with a fundamentally bad kicking action and without Shiel's line breaking ability. I thought he could at worst become Shiel or Treloar in their prime but even that seems a bit of a stretch.

Partly why I think we should chase Harley Reid is because I cannot see Tsatas becoming elite at the areas we're lacking. It's fair to expect a top 5 pick to become an elite player and rectify it early through trade/draft if he isn't tracking to become one.

 

[Agronomus]

Took a good contested mark in the midfield which I've never seen Parish do.
Merretts' goal from the boundary was because of Tsatas' good work.
He's 4 months out of his teens and everyone was saying the same things about his kicking last year in the vfl as well until he settled in. I'd have him the side as our 6th best midfielder over Parish any day.

 

[doug85]

He's going to be a whipping boy.

All the hallmarks. High draft pick, slow start to his career, not a great kick.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

He's 4 months out of his teens and everyone was saying the same things about his kicking last year in the vfl as well until he settled in. I'd have him the side as our 6th best midfielder over Parish any day.

I thought he did some ok things on the weekend. His practice match form was good. But under the higher heat of real stuff big worry is his kicking just doesn’t stand up…at all. Certainly think they should retain him in the side but better than Parish just doesn’t stand up. What does he do that’s better than Parish?

 

[naraku]

We have already seen more from Caddy, Kako and Roberts with Zak and ADW likely to go past him as well.

Sure, Tsatas may come good but with such an awful kick he will definitely be a whipping boy until such time he might come good.

Like I said after the loss, I would leave him until around ANZAC game and assess him more then.

 

[ant555]

Bold a lot of people are writing off at 21 year old after one game in the season.

I am writing him off based on watching him from under 16 level to now including pre seasons. Maybe 25-30 odd games and two years of match sim most Saturdays in pre season. The main thing for me before the draft was his total lack of effort defensively. His very poor efforts to make a tackle and for an inside clearance winner his lack of interest for the physical contest other than just finding the ball.
He has improved his kicking to the point where it is passable but not great.
So one game into the season I am still seeing many of the same issues i was seeing before he was drafted. It does not seem in his nature to go when he has to. Plays the game on his terms.
Yes he will get to the stage where he can find it 30 times but will he be the line breaking midfielder we want ? we do not really need a clearance guy who had quick hands but limited physicality. We already have that. Darcy Parish. The only thing Tsatas does better than Parish is take an overhead mark.
Yes he is 21. Yes he has had some injury interruptions that have hurt his development but there are some stuff that is just mindset that he just does not do and has not done at under 18 level , VFL level or AFL level.
Hope I am wrong but I have seen a decent body of his work over 3 levels now plus match sim.

 

[gillon]

It cannot be overstated just how bad his kicking was. So much time and resources would have been put into correcting that since his draft year, it’s no surprise he hasn’t developed in other areas.

 

[Foxx]

I am writing him off based on watching him from under 16 level to now including pre seasons. Maybe 25-30 odd games and two years of match sim most Saturdays in pre season. The main thing for me before the draft was his total lack of effort defensively. His very poor efforts to make a tackle and for an inside clearance winner his lack of interest for the physical contest other than just finding the ball.
He has improved his kicking to the point where it is passable but not great.
So one game into the season I am still seeing many of the same issues i was seeing before he was drafted. It does not seem in his nature to go when he has to. Plays the game on his terms.
Yes he will get to the stage where he can find it 30 times but will he be the line breaking midfielder we want ? we do not really need a clearance guy who had quick hands but limited physicality. We already have that. Darcy Parish. The only thing Tsatas does better than Parish is take an overhead mark.
Yes he is 21. Yes he has had some injury interruptions that have hurt his development but there are some stuff that is just mindset that he just does not do and has not done at under 18 level , VFL level or AFL level.
Hope I am wrong but I have seen a decent body of his work over 3 levels now plus match sim.

Port Adelaide have 2-3 of these inside mids. And they struggle against sides with quicker skillful midfields.

We should have taken Melbourne's big offer pre draft.

 

[Agronomus]

I thought he did some ok things on the weekend. His practice match form was good. But under the higher heat of real stuff big worry is his kicking just doesn’t stand up…at all. Certainly think they should retain him in the side but better than Parish just doesn’t stand up. What does he do that’s better than Parish?

Just think he has a higher ceiling than Parish because of his athleticism. The kicking is a problem though if he can't handle it in a home and away match let alone a final.
More hopeful than confident

 

[Westlo]

Just think he has a higher ceiling than Parish because of his athleticism. The kicking is a problem though if he can't handle it in a home and away match let alone a final.
More hopeful than confident

I honestly don't see him ever touching 2021 Parish levels... but I hope I'm wrong or that he's just a better player overall even if he doesn't hit that ceiling. (Because Parish will never again either the way hes going)

 

[div12ressie]

how does one become a high draft pick while being a terrible kick

 

[BrunoV]

He's going to be a whipping boy.

In what sense?

He will get enough of the ball to satisfy a Supercoach score but is criticised for not being able to use it at a high enough standard and/or has a questionable 2-way contribution and a lack of genuine physical intensity inside? I don't think I see this last point as being an issue, by the way.

20 years of midfields featuring Stanton, Heppell, Parish and, I have to include him (despite being the one genuine game breaking mid we've had) Watson (because his kicking was not great for a significant part of his career) as its primary players. The idea that value for midfield possession is an important thing may well be novel for the broader AFL community and the Essendon football department but it shouldn't be for Essendon fans who have lived at least 2 generations of trying to explain away the obvious in favour of the stat sheet.

The big risk is that it happens again with Tsatas and Hobbs. Guys with these deficiencies would not be playing if they were not top picks and yet indications are that they will be given enough of an opportunity to become the 3rd generation of Essendon midfielders who go nowhere. The would hardly be discussed if it wasn't for their draft profile which should tell you everything.

The issue here is that neither has shown even a glimpse of the sort of player who is genuinely capable of leading a top midfield. Gun players almost always show these glimpses early, it's not a matter of age and maturity creating something that was not there. Age and maturity create the capacity for consistency.

A midfielder getting 30 possessions is his role and should be seen as nothing more than a forward kicking a few Joe the Goose goals or an old fashioned defender limiting his opponent to a few goals.

 

[bomberlegend2007]

I am writing him off based on watching him from under 16 level to now including pre seasons. Maybe 25-30 odd games and two years of match sim most Saturdays in pre season. The main thing for me before the draft was his total lack of effort defensively. His very poor efforts to make a tackle and for an inside clearance winner his lack of interest for the physical contest other than just finding the ball.
He has improved his kicking to the point where it is passable but not great.
So one game into the season I am still seeing many of the same issues i was seeing before he was drafted. It does not seem in his nature to go when he has to. Plays the game on his terms.
Yes he will get to the stage where he can find it 30 times but will he be the line breaking midfielder we want ? we do not really need a clearance guy who had quick hands but limited physicality. We already have that. Darcy Parish. The only thing Tsatas does better than Parish is take an overhead mark.
Yes he is 21. Yes he has had some injury interruptions that have hurt his development but there are some stuff that is just mindset that he just does not do and has not done at under 18 level , VFL level or AFL level.
Hope I am wrong but I have seen a decent body of his work over 3 levels now plus match sim.

I agree he is in the similar category as Parish, but as we are finding out, Parish is breaking down more than an old Holden Barina and is 27.

I’m not giving up on the kid. He has the frame to be built like a brick shithouse as soon as he hits his mid 20’s and once he has all of his game build, could use his speed as a weapon to move out of stoppages.

Players like him need time. Watson took years and years before becoming an A+ midfielder and I firmly believe that if Jobe wasn’t a Watson, he would have been gone long before his peak.

Firmly believe he has the tools to be an A grade AFL player, not willing to write him off yet.

 

[Nicholas61]

In what sense?

He will get enough of the ball to satisfy a Supercoach score but is criticised for not being able to use it at a high enough standard and/or has a questionable 2-way contribution and a lack of genuine physical intensity inside? I don't think I see this last point as being an issue, by the way.

20 years of midfields featuring Stanton, Heppell, Parish and, I have to include him (despite being the one genuine game breaking mid we've had) Watson (because his kicking was not great for a significant part of his career) as its primary players. The idea that value for midfield possession is an important thing may well be novel for the broader AFL community and the Essendon football department but it shouldn't be for Essendon fans who have lived at least 2 generations of trying to explain away the obvious in favour of the stat sheet.

The big risk is that it happens again with Tsatas and Hobbs. Guys with these deficiencies would not be playing if they were not top picks and yet indications are that they will be given enough of an opportunity to become the 3rd generation of Essendon midfielders who go nowhere. The would hardly be discussed if it wasn't for their draft profile which should tell you everything.

The issue here is that neither has shown even a glimpse of the sort of player who is genuinely capable of leading a top midfield. Gun players almost always show these glimpses early, it's not a matter of age and maturity creating something that was not there. Age and maturity create the capacity for consistency.

A midfielder getting 30 possessions is his role and should be seen as nothing more than a forward kicking a few Joe the Goose goals or an old fashioned defender limiting his opponent to a few goals.

You can throw Shiel in too - been a massive butcher for us and we gave up 2 firsts for him. So over a seven year period we used 5 first rounders (and some at the pontier end) on mids who can't kick. If you include McGrath (no composure that leads to dump kicks) that becomes an extra one.

 

[mike ross]

how does one become a high draft pick while being a terrible kick

A timeless question.

 

[Chief Hopper]

I'd give Tsatas more time.
He's a mid who will gain in size and take marks which is a point of difference to what we currently have.

Compared to our other mids like Caldwell who is playing great. But Caldwell has taken over Parish 2021 numbers and role, who we also have Hobbs gunning for and Shiel we tried.

 

[yodellinhank]

You can throw Shiel in too - been a massive butcher for us and we gave up 2 firsts for him.

That's rubbish. Cost us lemons and Caldwell came back as part of the deal.

 

[DERO]

Disposal is a big issue but not just for hm. We can’t carry all the butchers. Too many of them just can’t kick the footy reliably.