Autopsy 2025 Rd 1 Most Embarrassing Loss in Years

[Stamos]

I’ve rewatched the replay. We looked good until about 5 minutes left in the second. Our ball movement was good, pressure was high, kicking inside 50 was crisp too. It was just that when it fell away, it fell away completely, and we had zero composure to wrestle back momentum.

One thing that really stuck out to me on the rewatch from the second half was Richmond’s ability to not make errors. Even when our pressure was up, they were so clean and precise. I actually think they’ll be better than what people thought pre season. Might even finish above a team like west coast. However, don’t think they can count on players like Ross and Dow having the games they did every week.

The rewatch really made me think this game was a complete outlier. Don’t think we could have played any worse or made more mistakes if we tried. But we’ll see

Further to this, it was the biggest loss on record for a team that had our dominance in contested possessions and inside 50s.

 

[JJBagger]

I don't think I've got it in me, but well done.

I try to rewatch every game to gain a bit of perspective. Watching it without the emotion usually helps me to analyse the game a bit better. I get it’s not for everyone though

 

[Stamos]

I try to rewatch every game to gain a bit of perspective. Watching it without the emotion usually helps me to analyse the game a bit better. I get it’s not for everyone though

This was a particularly hard week

 

[goreds]

Do yourself a favor watch the replay and decide whether players not executing basic skills had a greater impact on the game result than "the Game plan".

This...

But the coach picks the side, period...

Fix the kicking/decision making issues out of defense first, Doc in, Ollie to the pine. Get me a lock down small defender. Saad will struggle this month with Ramadan.
Mids work, just need a rocket (sorry Walshy, that means you).
H and Charlie in the forward line, everyone else get the **** out of the 50.

Not game plan but selection credibility.

 

[JJBagger]

Further to this, it was the biggest loss on record for a team that had our dominance in contested possessions and inside 50s.

That was another thing I noticed on the rewatch. Our territory and contest dominance. They just sweated on our turnovers in the back half, and killed us when they got the ball

 

[Broadside]

The rewatch really made me think this game was a complete outlier.

our only wins since about July last year have been against North and West Coast. It's these wins that are the outliers. The brutal part of this loss is that we seem to have learned nothing over the break.

 

[JJBagger]

our only wins since about July last year have been against North and West Coast. It's these wins that are the outliers. The brutal part of this loss is that we seem to have learned nothing over the break.

I get that, but there were at the very least, extenuating circumstances that led to the drop off last year (not to mention it was a completely different season). It was an outlier in the sense that 9 times out of 10, the stats suggest we win. But it was because of the pure amount of errors we had in our defensive half, that led to goals

 

[Stamos]

Coaches' Votes

9 Toby Nankervis (RICH)
9 Jack Ross (RICH)
4 Jacob Weitering (CARL)
3 Tom De Koning (CARL)
2 Ben Miller (RICH)
2 Tim Taranto (RICH)
1 Nick Vlastuin (RICH)

 

[Blue since 72]

our only wins since about July last year have been against North and West Coast. It's these wins that are the outliers. The brutal part of this loss is that we seem to have learned nothing over the break.

There was no discernible difference in the way we played, no "added layers".

If we're so good at contest perhaps we should go old school man on man this week, our zone doesn't seem to hold up as we appear to be terrible at defending turnovers.

Weitering had a field day in the first half for one reason, the ball was coming out slow and high. Quickest way to take him out of the game is grow a set take the game on and move the ball quickly. Perhaps the Tiges were more worried about a massive blow out and were playing conservatively but Yze's probably told them to release the shackles at half time and bang.

This is why we were pantsed by Sydney and the Hawks last year, take chances back yourself move the ball quickly. Teams know this about us and when you throw in our inability to lock the ball in our forward half it becomes very easy to score quickly against us.

One thing I was curious about, Fog who was our best tackler inside 50 last year was playing a lot higher up the ground last Thursday. Maybe stop that Vossy.

 

[RPCB]

I always have to remember that the 2 games we lost that year were to St Kilda (14th of 16) and Sydney (12th) - even at our best we could always manage to lose to a crap team

I reckon Sydney and St Kilda weren’t as bad in 1995 as history has suggested for the last 30 years. Both finished 3 games outside the 8 and Sydney made a GF the following year.

 

[Graffy4242]

100%
It was the most unconvincing 40 pt+ lead i've witnessed.
We looked bog ordinary at the ground, not sure how it came across on tv.
I don't really have the stomach to watch the replay.

This is exactly what I was saying to those around me. We did NOT look convincing or move the ball well.

 

[TheBlueCampaigner]

Watching Carlton saves me money. I dont have to spend money on tickets to go to the fringe and watch comedy shows. I can watch Carlton, which provides better comedy on free to air tv.

Its actually almost enjoyable to watch when played to the Benny Hill theme music.

 

[JustaBattler]

This...

But the coach picks the side, period...

Fix the kicking/decision making issues out of defense first, Doc in, Ollie to the pine. Get me a lock down small defender. Saad will struggle this month with Ramadan.
Mids work, just need a rocket (sorry Walshy, that means you).
H and Charlie in the forward line, everyone else get the **** out of the 50.

Not game plan but selection credibility.

Im not convinced about Vossy but I am pretty much convinced about quite a few of the players...

 

[Wickzki]

To what extent do you think it’s likely Wrights appt as CEO can help re-boot the footy dept?

Sorry, I'm just replying to this now.

I do not want to see Wright treated as the next great hope for this football club. I think we're bound to be disappointed (again) if that is to happen.

I believe in him to do the job he has been charged with doing. I believe he has added motivation in that he's pursued this level of permanent position multiple times and been treated poorly. He'll have a chip on the shoulder and its likely a good thing.

However, ultimately, he is one man. It takes an entire team of people on different levels of the organisation to succeed. He can be the best thing since sliced bread but he can't make up for the inadequacies in other areas of the football club.

Club needs to be right top to bottom.

100%
It was the most unconvincing 40 pt+ lead i've witnessed.
We looked bog ordinary at the ground, not sure how it came across on tv.
I don't really have the stomach to watch the replay.

Spot on. I commented elsewhere when we were 40-points up that Richmond would have much better luck if they took the game on rather than letting us set up.. I got laughed at for saying so but it was pretty easy to see.

Every time over the last two years when opponents have taken the game on we've struggled to do anything. I'm reminded of the Gather Round game in 2023 against Adelaide, both Brisbane finals, GWS and the tsunami kicking into gear last year, etc. Outside of Thursday, it's a significant reason why we're prone to teams coming back in the forth quarter of games when we've seemingly had a game under complete control and either barely hung on or lost games we should've won (Adelaide at MARVEL last year). We've seen it all before.

There's talent on this team. I believe we have as many AFL-level players as just about any club in the competition. We don't have many players out of their depth at the level. However, the pieces don't fit together into a cohesive whole and our weaknesses are exacerbated.

There isn't a team in the AFL that needs the game on their terms more than we do.

 

[CCurnow3picks]

Sorry, I'm just replying to this now.

I do not want to see Wright treated as the next great hope for this football club. I think we're bound to be disappointed (again) if that is to happen.

I believe in him to do the job he has been charged with doing. I believe he has added motivation in that he's pursued this level of permanent position multiple times and been treated poorly. He'll have a chip on the shoulder and its likely a good thing.

However, ultimately, he is one man. It takes an entire team of people on different levels of the organisation to succeed. He can be the best thing since sliced bread but he can't make up for the inadequacies in other areas of the football club.

Club needs to be right top to bottom.



Spot on. I commented elsewhere when we were 40-points up that Richmond would have much better luck if they took the game on rather than letting us set up.. I got laughed at for saying so but it was pretty easy to see.

Every time over the last two years when opponents have taken the game on we've struggled to do anything. I'm reminded of the Gather Round game in 2023 against Adelaide, both Brisbane finals, GWS and the tsunami kicking into gear last year, etc. Outside of Thursday, it's a significant reason why we're prone to teams coming back in the forth quarter of games when we've seemingly had a game under complete control and either barely hung on or lost games we should've won (Adelaide at MARVEL last year). We've seen it all before.

There's talent on this team. I believe we have as many AFL-level players as just about any club in the competition. We don't have many players out of their depth at the level. However, the pieces don't fit together into a cohesive whole and our weaknesses are exacerbated.

There isn't a team in the AFL that needs the game on their terms more than we do.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Hopefully as CEO he’ll have the opportunity to impact the whole football dept - thanks to Cooks’ great work off field.

 

[Kernafides]

We have a history of bagging the coach but gee I reckon we have a culture of players who pick and choose when they go

 

[sacole13]

Fix the kicking/decision making issues out of defense first

This is what bugged me the most. Too many kicks straight to Richmond.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

There are different levels.

Gov regularly does not put his body on the line and does the unthinkable as a defender.
Ie. Shepherding his man and letting the ball bounce through for a goal, kicking the ball off the ground rather than attempting to pick it up etc. Defenders need to contest properly and aggressively (see Weiters)...otherwise are they really defending? Gov almost always fails this aspect.

Even first gamer Lucas showed more guts and put his head over the ball when it was his turn.

that's just emotional rhetoric...

 

[Soapy V]

This...

But the coach picks the side, period...

Fix the kicking/decision making issues out of defense first, Doc in, Ollie to the pine. Get me a lock down small defender. Saad will struggle this month with Ramadan.
Mids work, just need a rocket (sorry Walshy, that means you).
H and Charlie in the forward line, everyone else get the **** out of the 50.

Not game plan but selection credibility.

Game plan or players execution is a bit "chicken or the egg"

If players don't believe or trust game plan or the game plan doesn't stand up then skills, effort and execution fall away. In regards to our performances recently I think it's a bit of both

The question is how much of each and how do we fix it?

My genuine concern is we have fallen away badly because sides have worked us out and we have no answers. We are just so predictable. At the game on Thursday night as soon as any pressure came on we looked lost and didn't know what to do. Exactly the same as last year

Simple example was after halftime Yze put a kid on Weitering to put pressure on him and make him accountable. Our defence then fell apart and we did nothing

 

[JustaBattler]

Game plan or players execution is a bit "chicken or the egg"

If players don't believe or trust game plan or the game plan doesn't stand up then skills, effort and execution fall away. In regards to our performances recently I think it's a bit of both

My genuine concern is we have fallen away badly because sides have worked us out and we have no answers. We are just so predictable. At the game on Thursday night as soon as any pressure came on we looked lost and didn't know what to do. Exactly the same as last year

The question is how much of each and how do we fix it?

well here ar emuy thoughts as I sit recovering from a bad bout of gastro....



Carlton doesn't need to have elite smalls to win games against any team - all that is required is that the smalls selected play a small forwards defensive role properly - for as long as the Voss territorial contested game plan is in operation.

This requires Carlton to have their talls performing as they should be and can be and have been able to perform Charlie and Harry are the strike weapons and if Kemp can add another marking option all the better.

We have seen the worst of it in the first game sans Charlie a half fit Harry and an in game collision injury to Kemp.

Lets not get too down after one ( admittedly poor ) game- in the first round.

Add Fantasia and the missing E hollands to the mix and the execution and IQ levels go up significantly - but even sticking with same blokes and getting them to C grade levels of performance with Charlie present totally changes the forward mix.

A bit early for all this chuck it all in talk I am reading after game one- but at least expectations have been recalibrated back to a more realistic level.

I am glad that some people are starting to understand that the contested game is what Voss has to play given the make up of his between the arcs player types and skills sets-...

Carlton had 65 inside 50's to Richmond's 40 - based on this single stat alone it should hav been an easy victory - the difference between lousy conversion and (just) ordinary conversion percentages would have seen a totally different result.

Tweaking mid to forward entries and forward defensive pressure isn't a mountain too high to climb.

 

[Soapy V]

well here ar emuy thoughts as I sit recovering from a bad bout of gastro....



Carlton doesn't need to have elite smalls to win games against any team - all that is required is that the smalls selected play a small forwards defensive role properly - for as long as the Voss territorial contested game plan is in operation.

This requires Carlton to have their talls performing as they should be and can be and have been able to perform Charlie and Harry are the strike weapons and if Kemp can add another marking option all the better.

We have seen the worst of it in the first game sans Charlie a half fit Harry and an in game collision injury to Kemp.

Lets not get too down after one ( admittedly poor ) game- in the first round.

Add Fantasia and the missing E hollands to the mix and the execution and IQ levels go up significantly - but even sticking with same blokes and getting them to C grade levels of performance with Charlie present totally changes the forward mix.

A bit early for all this chuck it all in talk I am reading after game one- but at least expectations have been recalibrated back to a more realistic level.

I am glad that some people are starting to understand that the contested game is what Voss has to play given the make up of his between the arcs player types and skills sets-...

Carlton had 65 inside 50's to Richmond's 40 - based on this single stat alone it should hav been an easy victory - the difference between lousy conversion and (just) ordinary conversion percentages would have seen a totally different result.

Tweaking mid to forward entries and forward defensive pressure isn't a mountain too high to climb.

I understand your points and they are fair but I still thinks it's much deeper.

IMO we played the worst side ever (may not win another game this year) lead easily, and we fell apart. The same things that happened on Thursday happened last year. It was the worst performance I have seen in 30 years

People can talk about issues with small fwds, pace, kicking and more but I think its hiding bigger problems

How often in the last 12 months have we put togther a proper 4 quarter effort?

People can argue whether we are good enough to be a finals side etc (I believe it is) but IMO there is no way this list is as bad as it is showing. My genuine fear is it's the same things over and over again and nothing seems to change

 

[BlueBlood15]

Game plan or players execution is a bit "chicken or the egg"

If players don't believe or trust game plan or the game plan doesn't stand up then skills, effort and execution fall away. In regards to our performances recently I think it's a bit of both

The question is how much of each and how do we fix it?

My genuine concern is we have fallen away badly because sides have worked us out and we have no answers. We are just so predictable. At the game on Thursday night as soon as any pressure came on we looked lost and didn't know what to do. Exactly the same as last year

Simple example was after halftime Yze put a kid on Weitering to put pressure on him and make him accountable. Our defence then fell apart and we did nothing

Agree that we have become predictable and easy to play against. Collingwood were probably the first team to figure us out and now everyone knows. Put pressure on us, prey on the turnover and then slingshot the other way with speed as we can’t defend in transition.

How do we become more competitive?

Putting aside the coaching for a minute (which absolutely must be scrutinised), we need at a minimum complete buy in from the 23 that play each week. Manic pressure and effort. Take that out and we can’t even beat the likely wooden spooners.

In terms of how do we bridge our defensive transition issues, I simply don’t think this is achievable with the current make up of our midfield. We need more speed and two way running. Losing Jagga’s pace hurts even though he’s only a first year player.

Our only real way to winning games is to dominant the stoppage and clearance battle (which we’re built to do) and then our half forwards need to pin the ball inside our attacking 50-70 metres so we can set up behind the ball with Weitering to chop off long bombs. Even if we get this right, we’re still going to leak goals from opposition chains out of their defensive 50 due to the make up of our team, but perhaps we’ll be able to score enough that it ultimately doesn’t matter too much.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

Game plan or players execution is a bit "chicken or the egg"

If players don't believe or trust game plan or the game plan doesn't stand up then skills, effort and execution fall away. In regards to our performances recently I think it's a bit of both

The question is how much of each and how do we fix it?

My genuine concern is we have fallen away badly because sides have worked us out and we have no answers. We are just so predictable. At the game on Thursday night as soon as any pressure came on we looked lost and didn't know what to do. Exactly the same as last year

Simple example was after halftime Yze put a kid on Weitering to put pressure on him and make him accountable. Our defence then fell apart and we did nothing

the midfield went missing first - Cerra, Walsh and Hewett all invisible. TDK pretty average too frankly.

And Acres had a shocker.

Plus an invisible HF line - makes it tough..on the defence...

(granted those skill errors, on a fine night, were inexcusable)

 

[Soapy V]

Agree that we have become predictable and easy to play against. Collingwood were probably the first team to figure us out and now everyone knows. Put pressure on us, prey on the turnover and then slingshot the other way with speed as we can’t defend in transition.

How do we become more competitive?

Putting aside the coaching for a minute (which absolutely must be scrutinised), we need at a minimum complete buy in from the 23 that play each week. Manic pressure and effort. Take that out and we can’t even beat the likely wooden spooners.

In terms of how do we bridge our defensive transition issues, I simply don’t think this is achievable with the current make up of our midfield. We need more speed and two way running. Losing Jagga’s pace hurts even though he’s only a first year player.

Our only real way to winning games is to dominant the stoppage and clearance battle (which we’re built to do) and then our half forwards need to pin the ball inside our attacking 50-70 metres so we can set up behind the ball with Weitering to chop off long bombs. Even if we get this right, we’re still going to leak goals from opposition chains out of their defensive 50 due to the make up of our team, but perhaps we’ll be able to score enough that it ultimately doesn’t matter too much.

Good post

Issue I have with players "Buying in" is that players need to trust the game plan and what the coaches are asking them to do. My feel is they don't. In the second half on Thursday you could see players yelling at each other, pointing everywhere and at each other and they started playing very individual football. They had no idea what to do.

Right or wrong that's the way it is

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

The list management team and coach have been out of step with modern football. Obsessesd with contested football and kicking the ball long to contests. It has been apparent for best part of the decade that speed and skill wins, yet we have stayed the course on the same slow top heavy team filled with one paced mids many whom can't kick.

The list is in some regards a mess, we simply haven't read the play at all on this.

The 2023 run of close wins papered over all of these issues.

2023 we suffered through 2 Rucks and 3 tall forwards sometimes 4 if include Jack
2024 similar issues until injury prevented that team being assembled, instead we went with the slowest midfield in the AFL, with Hewitt, Cripps, Cerra, Kennedy and Walsh
2025 we opened the season with 4 talls in defence which is truly shocking and the slowest on-ball line up in the league of Cripps, Cerra and Hewitt.

AFL is about speed, skill and pressure.

Unfortunately we have wasted a once in a generation spine and now need an urgent rebuild. Our running wingers, half backs and small forwards are by far the worst in the AFL outside maybe the Eagles.

This side on paper looks every bit a bottom 4 side, and the second half of last season and round 1 confirmed that.

The top end talent will ensure the occasional rousing win but outside that 6 to 8 wins is where we will land.

First and foremost, AFL footy is about winning the ball and using it well (and more often than not quickly).

We won it enough, used it so, so poorly.

Inexcusable at this level.

And one has to ask how we changed our ways so much between the GWS drubbing and last Thursday....