Autopsy Rd 2 vs Hawks - Blues fight but lose due to lack of class and pace ... again

[Arr0w]

It's really strange that we are blaming players for coaching flaws and visa versa. This isn't junior footy

You either have the footskills of Karl Amon or Levi Casboult, despite being able to slightly improve both

You either have Newman mongrel or you are Marc Murphy, courageous but no mongrel

You are either Pendlebury like vision and composure to see multiple options, or you have a lower blinkered IQ where you miss most of the better options

You can't teach a footballer to be smarter, you can only teach them to embrace and work within their limitations or enhance their strengths

You are either a very good tactical head coach ( not many of them) or you are great tactical assistant

So, I thought that we setup up the game well, didn't see any tactical miracles from either coaching group, Hawks were just more clinical by foot, around the ground and at goals

Disposal efficiency, us 64%, them 73%

Similar inside 50s, similar number of shots, one side 12 goals, the other 8

Even if you replace the conversion of Chol with Jsos, that's the difference on the scoreboard

 

[MitchRobinson12]

Anyone heard anything about McKay's supposed "illness" yet?

 

[Big Red is back]

Was last night that bad??

Motlop point is a goal and we turn 16 points ahead at half time. Docherty marks in the final minutes of the third quarter and we are potentially in front at 3qrt time.
Last quarter we struggled but it wasn’t for lack of intent.
Thought the game plan and structure held up well - no doubt helped by the conditions … we are never going to match the Hawks game style.
Some really basic errors and conversion were really costly but Hawthon are a very good team.
Lots of scope for improvement - but understand we are hoping rather than expecting some players to step up to the next level.

Yes it was, complete clearence domination, impossible to maintain game style, poor decision making, poor skill execution.

Once the weather improved Hawthorn looked every bit a 10 goal better side.

 

[KJP7]

I really liked Bolton. He was so good with the younger players. I agree, support was poor. He just went to far and no one pulled him up. The younger players became very reactive. When Teague came in and released them it was like a relief. Issue is it's all he had

He really did lack the support around him and strong leadership at the club to succeed, I remember having a chat with an oppo's senior coach at the time Craig left and he mentioned that Bolton may struggle without anyone to 'keep him in line'.

He obviously needed some balancing out as we saw with the Tuohy story that came out a little while back.

 

[KJP7]

Anyone heard anything about McKay's supposed "illness" yet?

Like the rest of the supporter base, he's got the sh!ts

 

[bigblueboy]

Is that the penalty for an extra man on field? I thought it was stripping points?

Point stripping is no longer a rule at AFL level. That said, it was a serious breach.

 

[Aphrodite]

Surprise surprise NOT ...

 

[Big Red is back]

He really did lack the support around him and strong leadership at the club to succeed, I remember having a chat with an oppo's senior coach at the time Craig left and he mentioned that Bolton may struggle without anyone to 'keep him in line'.

He obviously needed some balancing out as we saw with the Tuohy story that came out a little while back.

He had a very strained relationship with key players.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Point stripping is no longer a rule at AFL level. That said, it was a serious breach.

Whaaat? Robbery

 

[FlowersByIrene]

What the ****....

 

[DangerousD]

Teague wasn't any better. He was take the game on and didn't worry about defence at all
Bolton was the opposite. He was structure, structure, structure which i was okay with but he was doing it with a bunch of kids that weren't physically ready and needed development first. He really held back their natural development IMO

Overall I think our coaching selections from Pagan onwards have been very poor

I have banged on about this, the club went for Pagan, Ratten and Malthouse with no process, just appointed based on the vibe and the name of the invidual, we then woke up and went through a really thorough process with Bolton, things went to crap and we hired Teague with no real process once again, things turned to crap again and we ran a sham of a coaching process that made it clear we would only hire an experienced coach.

We went through a coaching selection process and said we will ignore 3/4 of the available candidates and select from a small pool of coaches because we are scared of stuffing up again.

Sometimes the right process doesnt deliver the right outcome, that doesnt mean you throw it out the window next time.

 

[Blue since 72]

We dump kick more than any other team, in all areas on the ground

We are currently very poor at hand ball chains out of a contest with very little run and carry, our default is the dump kick.

Needs to be the other way round.

 

[Dramoth]

Is this hypothetical / a joke about the umpires / a bad player or is this true?

This is true.
Hawthorn caught with too many players on the field

The AFL have conceded Hawthorn should have been penalised for briefly having 19 men on the field during Friday night’s win over Carlton.

But my question is, why isn't the AFL reversing the result. Why aren't they checking the footage for the whole game and making sure that Hawthorn didn't slip players onto the field during a non-stoppage period?

 

[Kruezing]

This is true.
Hawthorn caught with too many players on the field

But my question is, why isn't the AFL reversing the result. Why aren't they checking the footage for the whole game and making sure that Hawthorn didn't slip players onto the field during a non-stoppage period?

19 ? Number 14 on i’m guessing

 

[DangerousD]

So, I thought that we setup up the game well, didn't see any tactical miracles from either coaching group, Hawks were just more clinical by foot, around the ground and at goals

Disposal efficiency, us 64%, them 73%

Similar inside 50s, similar number of shots, one side 12 goals, the other 8

Even if you replace the conversion of Chol with Jsos, that's the difference on the scoreboard

I love stats but sometimes lots of stats dont provide a great deal of depth/context, what makes our disposal efficiency low? I watched the game on TV and i can see that kicking blindly and rushed out of a D50 stoppage will lower your efficiency and blindly bombing in to the forward line will too, these two things dont mean we dont have players who could hit a target if it was drilled in to them.

The inside 50s were 54 to 55 which doesnt seem like an issue but its not that simple, at one stage Hawthorn had 7 goals from 15 entries and clubs easily turning entries to goals isn’t a new thing for us. On the flip side if we are constantly bombing in to our F50 then lots of our shots will be rushed and from congestion, causing a higher rate of misses.

This doesnt mean that we wouldn’t love better users of the ball and wouldn’t love SOS to be slightly better at set shots, id love that, but if we actually had a plan of transitioning from D50 that didn’t involve dump kicking and had a better plan delivering in to F50 then maybe our efficiency would be better and the shots we generate might not be under so much pressure.

 

[SurreyBlue]

This goes back to last nights bias umpiring. Simple.

Also, the question is valid, how long did they actually have the 19th player on the field - I'm not convinced it was only after a goal and why didn't our players call for a head count? Seriously grow some....

 

[RPCB]

Surprise surprise NOT ...

AFL continues to be one of the most amateurish sports competitions in the world. I thought MLB umpires were shit but AFL umpires are much, much worse.

 

[Jacks Seething Rage]

I liken last night to my golf game.

I play with a mate who is a low-mid handicapper. He'll dink an iron down the middle, hit the green in regulation, lip out for a birdie and tap in for the safest of pars.

I'll blast a driver into the trees, duff a recovery, put the next shot in a greenside bunker, blast out 15m past the hole, and drop in a bullshit putt for a bogey.

In my mind I will invent a scenario that we're not too far apart cos he only got me by a stroke.

 

[Blue since 72]

Agree with most of what u have been saying but barring west coast no team is that far away

Comp is that even all we need is a few changes

Such a shame Jagga went down, he is exactly what we need and agree we're not necessarily that far off but we do need at least a couple more skilled players with pace in some important parts of the ground.

 

[SurreyBlue]

I liken last night to my golf game.

I play with a mate who is a low-mid handicapper. He'll dink an iron down the middle, hit the green in regulation, lip out for a birdie and tap in for the safest of pars.

I'll blast a driver into the trees, duff a recovery, put the next shot in a greenside bunker, blast out 15m past the hole, and drop in a bullshit putt for a bogey.

In my mind I will invent a scenario that we're not too far apart cos he only got me by a stroke.

You sound like me and my golfing buddy ....

 

[Aphrodite]

This goes back to last nights bias umpiring. Simple.

Also, the question is valid, how long did they actually have the 19th player on the field - I'm not convinced it was only after a goal and why didn't our players call for a head count? Seriously grow some....

Mitch Cleary 'thinks' :-

“I think Hawthorn had 19 players for about 10 or 15 seconds.”

Hawthorn scrutinised by AFL for major rule breach

Channel 7 cameras picked up the blunder that should have seen the Hawks penalised.

7news.com.au

Should have been a free kick & 50m penalty from the centre to us!

 

[SurreyBlue]

The other point - what was the AFL interchange steward doing at the time? Talking to his or her partner?

 

[mochacinolatte]

If we did win on technicality or whatever reason, doesn't excuse the poor rubbish basic football skills.

 

[Kruezing]

AFL continues to be one of the most amateurish sports competitions in the world. I thought MLB umpires were shit but AFL umpires are much, much worse.

The umpriring was the worst I’ve seen in a long time and this just takes the cake …

 

[charred_fate]

I seem to be more optimistic than most. I thought last night was quite positive and certainly a step in the right direction.

Some things are obvious - we are panicking out of D50 in a way that really hurts us, but the Hawks also struggled moving it from D50 bc of our F50 pressure a lot of the time - it's just that when they got through it's more memorable bc of their style. We tackled really well. It felt like a step towards things clicking. Our delivery inside F50 needs work too obviously - I'd literally be looking for Cerra or Williams every time for that last kick.

The Hawks look a lot 'prettier' than us and we are a bit too ugly (as in, we need to get a bit 'prettier' - a couple of better kicks in the team), but honestly, we don't have to look pretty to win a premiership (remember Demetriou calling the Swans unattractive?).

I don't care how we win, as long as we win. But for a few bits of misfortune (when does that free kick against JSOS ever get paid on the last line??), Motlop snicking the post, Cotts not getting the free for 'over the shoulder' directly in front, the Hawks' 19 players on field, several missing set shots (and posters) that the Hawks nailed etc, it was a flip of the coin result.

TDK and Motlop were the real positives for me (though Hewett possibly best on). It only reinforced my view that we have to do whatever it takes to keep TDK. As I've said many times, I'd trade one of the key forwards regardless (I'd love to know if Trac was a real option (and would then be sick if he was and we didn't take it)!), but it's a complete no-brainer if it's the difference between keeping or losing TDK.

Wish respect, JSOS shows that the gap between a C-grade forward and an A+ grade forward closes significantly when heart comes into it.

Walsh, H and Charlie taking up 2.5-3 million of our salary cap is a stinger atm, esp if you throw Williams in there as well. I worry about Walsh's body - he looks so stiff in his movements and nothing like his former self at this stage. We are very unlucky if his body doesn't allow him to get back to his best... But I get more frustrated by Charlie and H who rarely give everything they have.

I think there is a change that could really benefit us, and is at least worth experimenting with, and that's bringing Matt Carroll in with the freedom to play that 'loose-ish' half-back role where his focus is being an 80m driving force from defence. It would probably be for Haynes, who was fine but probably first to go from defence. He's a better defender for sure, but we need more drive.

Young is amazing - does a couple of really good things: nice marks and a lovely aggressive kick into the corridor and in my head I'm thinking "this is positive, building some confidence" .. and then he undoes it all for his own confidence, by going the spoil instead of the mark on the wing ... baffling.

I hope the team takes confidence out last night and makes that effort their baseline. Hopefully other things fall into place with some more confidence. Would be nice to be able to bring Elijah in next week... Hopefully he isn't too far away.

(None of this is to say that I'm happy with where we're at... We should be better than what we are for sure and I'm fuming that the Club seems to know less about our list than the invested footy fan ....again... (this has been going on 20 years), but I saw someone compare this current crop to 2014 ish era and we're in a far better position now than we were then I reckon. This list can be saved and contend with some bold trading and tweaks imo..... I've never been sold on Voss but hoping to be proven wrong.)