Neil Craig

[- PC -]

There's a massive difference between what Hawthorn did - leaving Nick Holland in the VFL when he was fit and they were crying out for a key forward - and sending Tredrea who was legitimately broken down for surgery and using that as a signpost to play kids ahead of deadend blokes like Peter Walsh and Aaron Shattock.

It was a sound decision I thought - a silver lining on a black cloud, rather than any real deliberate push for the draft order (see Carlton rolling over like a cheap $LuT for anyone and everyone in order to get Kr00z0r).

Agreed. Thats why Melbourne should also improve in 2008. They sent players to surgery early.

I do agree in playing kids when there is no other choice ie Tredrea surgery brings an opportunity

Yet apart from playing sore, the Crows really , Roo aside, didnt have those major issues

 

[Mad Dog]

Agreed. Thats why Melbourne should also improve in 2008. They sent players to surgery early.

I do agree in playing kids when there is no other choice ie Tredrea surgery brings an opportunity

Yet apart from playing sore, the Crows really , Roo aside, didnt have those major issues

The problem here is that if you suggest that a player needs to be consigned to depth status as they have peaked in terms of their marginal capacity to improve after 10 years on the list - you're accused of hating the club and player......

 

[Cap]

The problem here is that if you suggest that a player needs to be consigned to depth status as they have peaked in terms of their marginal capacity to improve after 10 years on the list - you're accused of hating the club and player......

I think you'll find if its a logical and fact based statement people are alright.

its the loonies who crap on about the same player every week despite performances who give everyone the shits...

 

[- PC -]

The problem here is that if you suggest that a player needs to be consigned to depth status as they have peaked in terms of their marginal capacity to improve after 10 years on the list - you're accused of hating the club and player......

Come and have a beer and us old men can share the Pez love together

Its the ADD generation that want change for change sake

 

[Mad Dog]

Come and have a beer and us old men can share the Pez love together

Its the ADD generation that want change for change sake

hahahaha - "player x got 4 possessions in his 1st SANFL reserves game------> GUN !!!!......bring him in !"

 

[King Elvis]

1. he's nothing like level 5
2. no you haven't
3. he empowers the players, but everyone else in the coaches box is a mute?
Jonas is a matchday tactician for example, but no moves are made? that's because he's still holding the reins, whilst others watch on.

he obviously does not delegate and empower to those between him and the players. Level 5 leaders, amongst other things, delegate at EVERY level of the organisation, not just those levels that suit. craigy patently picks and chooses.

I actually thought about this a bit more after I posted earlier - when I wasn't just pissed off at the condescending tone of your post.

I'd agree with your above post - he isn't a level 5 leader.

As you said, lack of delegation, and the Jonas example is a good one. When he came back, we were all pretty excited, he's more than likely the right person for the job - but what value is having the right person if you don't allow them to do their job?

The players can not be as empowered as we are led to believe - if they were, someone would have made the call on Saturday to move onto Franklin and relieve Massie. It seems like the players are empowered when we are steamrolling the competition, but not when we're battling.

The whole Mattner issue is another example - right person, but wrong position. And how empowered can a player like Mattner be when he is continually forced to play out of position?

You could also mount a pretty strong argument that Craig is a fair bit more ego driven than he should be - his stubborness in refusing to make changes, and then refusing to admit it may have been a mistake in particular.

Also - in reply to point 2, yes I have.

 

[Cap]

hahahaha - "player x got 4 possessions in his 1st SANFL reserves game------> GUN !!!!......bring him in !"

or Why did NC leave Massie on Franklin - he has no idea as a coach what a loser

 

[Stiffy_18]

I give Craigy one more year.
If he wins a flag he stays; if not he walks.

Is this being too kind or too harsh?

WAY too harsh!

 

[King Elvis]

WAY too harsh!

Have to judge each season on it's merits, and we have to judge what Craig does in that context.

There were a few glaringly obvious flaws in the coaching this year, but that doesn't change the fact that getting us into the eight was a bloody good effort.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Have to judge each season on it's merits, and we have to judge what Craig does in that context.

There were a few glaringly obvious flaws in the coaching this year, but that doesn't change the fact that getting us into the eight was a bloody good effort.

Agreed!

 

[smoovy]

To say some posters here are getting a bit carried away I think is an understatement. I think next year is the beginning of the second phase of Craig's coaching career at the Crows, and this is going to be quite different from the first 3.

In some respect Craig is a victim of his own success in terms of some of the flak he is copping here. In 05 and 06 he turned what in reality wasan average list at best, into a high quality top of the table side. He clearly got the jump on the rest of the competition by introducing something new to the game. The reasons for success were a defensive system that was employed all over the ground, and pure gut running, the likes of which had never been seen in the AFL before. We lacked (and still lack) game breaking stars forward of centre, but we were in essence the complete team in the way we went about our footy.

It was not until the end of the 06 H&A season that this gameplan was finally starting to be broken down. The fact though that he was almost able to pinch a premiership, with that list, would have been one of the more remarkable coaching performances in the modern game.

07 was such a disjointed year with personnel it is hard to know what to make of it. We could not get into any sort of groove the whole season. Given how poorly we played at times and the lack of personnel I cannot fathom how we were able to be competitive in just about every game. If we had had some luck with the close games and got a couple of extra wins to finish in the top four then it could have been quite an exciting September.

Now moving onto 08 it is clear that the 05 and 06 gameplan has well and truly been cracked and we won't win a premiership with the talent we have. We therefore desperately need to develop or get some game breakers forward of centre that can win us some games with just pure football talent. The only other option is for Craigy to pull another rabbit out of the hat, but I thinik we are all out of rabbits.

 

[jenny61_99]

To say some posters here are getting a bit carried away I think is an understatement. I think next year is the beginning of the second phase of Craig's coaching career at the Crows, and this is going to be quite different from the first 3.

In some respect Craig is a victim of his own success in terms of some of the flak he is copping here. In 05 and 06 he turned what in reality wasan average list at best, into a high quality top of the table side. He clearly got the jump on the rest of the competition by introducing something new to the game. The reasons for success were a defensive system that was employed all over the ground, and pure gut running, the likes of which had never been seen in the AFL before. We lacked (and still lack) game breaking stars forward of centre, but we were in essence the complete team in the way we went about our footy.

It was not until the end of the 06 H&A season that this gameplan was finally starting to be broken down. The fact though that he was almost able to pinch a premiership, with that list, would have been one of the more remarkable coaching performances in the modern game.

07 was such a disjointed year with personnel it is hard to know what to make of it. We could not get into any sort of groove the whole season. Given how poorly we played at times and the lack of personnel I cannot fathom how we were able to be competitive in just about every game. If we had had some luck with the close games and got a couple of extra wins to finish in the top four then it could have been quite an exciting September.

Now moving onto 08 it is clear that the 05 and 06 gameplan has well and truly been cracked and we won't win a premiership with the talent we have. We therefore desperately need to develop or get some game breakers forward of centre that can win us some games with just pure football talent. The only other option is for Craigy to pull another rabbit out of the hat, but I thinik we are all out of rabbits.

Probably the best read on here at the moment! Couldn't agree more.

 

[Markthirtytwo]

To say some posters here are getting a bit carried away I think is an understatement. I think next year is the beginning of the second phase of Craig's coaching career at the Crows, and this is going to be quite different from the first 3.

In some respect Craig is a victim of his own success in terms of some of the flak he is copping here. In 05 and 06 he turned what in reality wasan average list at best, into a high quality top of the table side. He clearly got the jump on the rest of the competition by introducing something new to the game. The reasons for success were a defensive system that was employed all over the ground, and pure gut running, the likes of which had never been seen in the AFL before. We lacked (and still lack) game breaking stars forward of centre, but we were in essence the complete team in the way we went about our footy.

It was not until the end of the 06 H&A season that this gameplan was finally starting to be broken down. The fact though that he was almost able to pinch a premiership, with that list, would have been one of the more remarkable coaching performances in the modern game.

07 was such a disjointed year with personnel it is hard to know what to make of it. We could not get into any sort of groove the whole season. Given how poorly we played at times and the lack of personnel I cannot fathom how we were able to be competitive in just about every game. If we had had some luck with the close games and got a couple of extra wins to finish in the top four then it could have been quite an exciting September.

Now moving onto 08 it is clear that the 05 and 06 gameplan has well and truly been cracked and we won't win a premiership with the talent we have. We therefore desperately need to develop or get some game breakers forward of centre that can win us some games with just pure football talent. The only other option is for Craigy to pull another rabbit out of the hat, but I thinik we are all out of rabbits.

Hope he reads this.

 

[Crow-mo]

You could also mount a pretty strong argument that Craig is a fair bit more ego driven than he should be - his stubborness in refusing to make changes, and then refusing to admit it may have been a mistake in particular.

I think you're really about the mark here. I wouldn't say more ego driven than he needs to be (though perhaps this is true?), more than he is far more ego driven that he pretends.

that contradiction is arguably more corosive than the matter of ego itself.

 

[jenny61_99]

I think you're really about the mark here. I wouldn't say more ego driven than he needs to be (though perhaps this is true?), more than he is far more ego driven that he pretends.

that contradiction is arguably more corosive than the matter of ego itself.

Interesting argument.

 

[Messiah]

The only other option is for Craigy to pull another rabbit out of the hat, but I thinik we are all out of rabbits.

Don't give up hope. Still a few rabbits left before chucking the hat away.
At least Port are still our bunnies.

 

[Crow-mo]

I LOVE September

do you Rooch, do you love september?

me too.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

but what you're advocating is more akin to a video game or computer simulation that professional sports in a real, life environment.

what you're saying is we pre-program the settings and parameters, and then run the simulation finding out how we go. I'd like to think in reality, we can expect a response during the game.

That's the thing. For Craig he wouldn't use the words 'finding out' - he would see it as knowing how we will go. With his consistent, stable line up we know (to a degree) how the players are going to perform in their position and how they will perform their role in our game plan. His logic seems to be that we start the game with our best, strongest line up. If you've started with your best, strongest line up any change that you make can only make you worse.

The question Craig must be asking himself now, and one that you are alluding to, is is the game of football too dynamic and unpredictable to adopt this inflexible approach? Is our best, strongest line up at the start of the game not necessarily going to the the same as in an hours time? This is what Craig would be debating at the moment now I'm sure and as I mentioned in another thread he has to decide whether to keep his resolve and stick with his current philosophy or whether to reinvent his approach.

 

[macca23]

That's the thing. For Craig he wouldn't use the words 'finding out' - he would see it as knowing how we will go. With his consistent, stable line up we know (to a degree) how the players are going to perform in their position and how they will perform their role in our game plan. His logic seems to be that we start the game with our best, strongest line up. If you've started with your best, strongest line up any change that you make can only make you worse.
The question Craig must be asking himself now, and one that you are alluding to, is is the game of football too dynamic and unpredictable to adopt this inflexible approach? Is our best, strongest line up at the start of the game not necessarily going to the the same as in an hours time? This is what Craig would be debating at the moment now I'm sure and as I mentioned in another thread he has to decide whether to keep his resolve and stick with his current philosophy or whether to reinvent his approach.

It's a nice sounding theory, but one fraught with danger.

A team is made up of 22 individuals and to assume that they are all feeling at their best, will perform at their best, will match up perfectly against the opposition team each and every team is nothing short of away with the pixies.

Structure is important - yes. Flexibility within that structure - vital.

 

[Crow-mo]

That's the thing. For Craig he wouldn't use the words 'finding out' - he would see it as knowing how we will go.

the game is too unpredictable to "know" anything.

it is this "set and forget" attitude that is causing a crisis of confidence.

The question Craig must be asking himself now, and one that you are alluding to, is is the game of football too dynamic and unpredictable to adopt this inflexible approach? Is our best, strongest line up at the start of the game not necessarily going to the the same as in an hours time? This is what Craig would be debating at the moment now I'm sure and as I mentioned in another thread he has to decide whether to keep his resolve and stick with his current philosophy or whether to reinvent his approach.

again, this is computer simulation fairy tale stuff. for starters we will never have our ideal, 100%, best lineup to choose from. it is always, and will always be about improvisation with what you have to choose from. injury, suspensions etc. all make this mandatory.

so when we are subject to a less than optimal lineup, we can't know, we need to find out - experimentation and adjustment is vital, because human nature and performance is unpredictable.

 

[Crow-mo]

still no sign of rooch? he must be too busy loving september.

 

[AndrewJo]

I LOVE September

That's when I buy my ticket to visit the relatives in Italy.

 

[Mad Dog]

I LOVE September

oh dear.....

 

[noddy]

oh dear.....

If you read between the lines (like i always do ) Mr Rucci in one of his distraught pieces in this mornings advertiser more or less blamed N Craig, S Trigg & over 600000 Crow supporters for the most disgraceful capitulation by the Port Power on saturday last

 

[Mad Dog]

If you read between the lines (like i always do ) Mr Rucci in one of his distraught pieces in this mornings advertiser more or less blamed N Craig, S Trigg & over 600000 Crow supporters for the most disgraceful capitulation by the Port Power on saturday last

I'm only half way through the sport section Nod.

I need to take a break every so often as the tears well up......