Free Agency Tom De Koning - Joins St Kilda as an RFA, Carlton get Band 1 compensation (Pick 9)

[Jeremias]

This thread might be going for a while. Please respect board rules and each other.

As a starting point, let's leave any references to 'culture' at the door.

Thread bans and infractions will be handed out as necessary.

Thanks.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

St Kilda are under zero obligation to go through with a trade if it looks like he's going to stay at Carlton.

It'll just be "lol player snubs Saints again" and we'll move onto the next player we probably won't be able to get as a free agent.

If it looks like he's going to stay...
That wasn't the scenario. It was if he agrees to the deal.

 

[Dogflogger]

If we match a trade and you're offering the biggest contract in AFL history? You're damn right we're taking you to the cleaners for it.

Same thing happened with Geelong and Jeremy Cameron.

so you think its forced after the fact, as in no chance St Kilda can just say no after Carlton match?

 

[angrynaut]

It feels pretty obvious that the Saints are willing to splash big cash so they don't have to front up picks or players to land talent. Hell, maybe they told Tom/his agent as such, which no doubt gets back to the Blues and kills the whole "match and force a trade" thing.

Or maybe word doesn't even need to get back to the Blues because they're smart enough to see that the Saints are here to buy, not trade. Nobody is beholden to make a trade just because they're making a free agency offer, and no amount of big club harrumphing will change that. The Blues will keep their man, Tom will get his cash, and the Saints will try to splash that cash elsewhere.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Right... So let's say Cripps and Curnow say give me 500k extra in 2027 instead of 2026 so u can get better return for losing one of our players and hopefully use that to improve the list enough to contend for our last 4-5 years. That would be poor list management?

TDK has no love or care for the Saints at all, he'd be going there for money and nothing else. Just like GAJ when he went to the Suns.

In that case why would he not try and help the club he actually has a love for and lifelong connections at get better value for him when he left? That's what any sane person would do when leaving for a truckload of cash and nothing else.

Currently the best ruckman in the league at the ripe old age of 25 and still improving. Yep, 2025, 2026 and 2027 first rounders with some chump change going back is what I'd be asking for. He's not unrestricted and arguably our best player.

Once again, he's not unrestricted. If the Saints can't play the system well enough by presenting an offer that Carlton actually cannot possibly match then you run the risk of being forced to the trade table. That's just part of the game SOS is playing here.

You're wasting your time. The bloke has zero comprehension skills and even less critical thinking ability.

The other muppet thought you should ask for Marshall and we would accept that dedeal.

**** me mate! I literally NEVER said that.
You are the most clueless poster in this thread.

 

[Tasmanian saint]

If Tom went to Geelong I assume lifestyle would be a major factor.

I think he dreams about surfing 24/7.

He might love surfing but I think a potential extra 500k a season I think I know what his choice might be

 

[Tasmanian saint]

Pretty easy to shuffle money around when most of our cash is tied up in 5-6 players. And the rest are OOC end of this year or next. Sure Cripps would be fine back ending the crap out of his contract if it meant we got 3 firsts instead of 1 for the club.

Forty3 is a Blues insider of some sort, you can pretty much take his word as gospel on most things. Unfortunately his confirmation of the Saints offer is mildly vomit inducing and much more trustworthy than Caroline Wilson or Jon Ralph waffling on TV.

Pretty risky move matching if we walked away instead of trading you would be stuck with a player on a huge contract that you cannot even go close to affording would have disastrous affect on your list management moving forward

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

It really isn’t. What you are saying makes no sense and is make believe.

Fact is that there is nothing that says we have to trade or agree to your terms.

We could say, sure here is our third round pick. Take it or leave it.

Lyon literally just said that what we value a player at asset wise drives the conversation. Not the need or the money on offer.

We value TDK at 1.7m because it’s to bring him across as a free agent.

We don’t value him at 1.7m a year and draft assets.

That is the part none of you Carlton supporters understand.

So if you match - he will stay.

We understand it. It's just not the way the system works. Especially when the AFL offers terrible compo for high end talent.
The match and trade option was designed to circumnavigate that.

Don't reply because I'm sure you struggled to understand any of that and I'm not explaining it multiple times.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

so you think its forced after the fact, as in no chance St Kilda can just say no after Carlton match?

St Kilda has no way to rescind their offer at that point. Forty3 laid that out fairly clearly when explaining the process. We have 3 days afterwards to match but the Saints are locked into that commitment as soon as they lodge the papers.

If the offer is matched it is then up to the player to decide whether they:

A - Stay with his current team on the new deal
B - Go to the draft
C - Seek a trade

Regarding option A - If TDK knows that Carlton can't afford to actually follow through with that contract long term due to the previous contracts on our list, but can shuffle the books around to match the offer only to force a trade (which is exactly what occurred with Jeremy Cameron and GWS when he left) then he's either going to have to request to go to the draft (highly unlikely) or seek a trade understanding he's already committed to going to the Saints and won't be going back to the Blues because they can't afford to keep him on that amount.

He's not going to turn around after Carlton match the offer to force a trade and tell Carlton that he'll accept our offer and return for the extra $ because thats what he always wanted... That would be screwing over Carlton long term and he'd know they'd have absolutely no interest or ability to retain him on that amount of $$$.

All of this would be talked through dozens of times by all the parties involved in the lead up and the Blues and Saints would know whether or not the Blues were planning to match it or not well before they put in the paperwork to get things underway.

At that point it would be up to the Saints to decide whether they're going to go all in and also offer up draft picks via trade or pull out and leave TDK to stay on the offer Carlton has originally put to him.

It's never going to get to the point where the Saints put in the paperwork and Carlton walk away paying TDK 1.7 mil a year.

Clubs work together on these situations to make sure all parties are happy before anything is lodged with the AFL. They don't actively work to f*** over one another.

Josh Battle and Ben McKay are two prime examples of this. Both times both clubs worked together to make sure that band 1 would be awarded to the club losing the player knowing that would satisfy them and avoid sending it to a trade.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Pretty risky move matching if we walked away instead of trading you would be stuck with a player on a huge contract that you cannot even go close to affording would have disastrous affect on your list management moving forward

You can't walk away. Once you lodge the papers you're locked in to that offer whether Carlton match it or not.

 

[angrynaut]

You can't walk away. Once you lodge the papers you're locked in to that offer whether Carlton match it or not.

They can't walk away from the contract offer, but they can absolutely walk away from any trade after the fact.

 

[stavro#4]

We understand it. It's just not the way the system works. Especially when the AFL offers terrible compo for high end talent.
The match and trade option was designed to circumnavigate that.

Don't reply because I'm sure you struggled to understand any of that and I'm not explaining it multiple times.

Still missing the point that has been made to you enough times.

A point drive home by our coach tonight using Kemp as an example.

Money isn’t the issue. It’s the vehicle in which we will attain players. Cost is the issue and if we aren’t happy with the asset cost. We won’t do the deal.

Matching a bid doesn’t mean we are ponying up whatever you ask for. Be it Marshall be it multiple picks.

And the rules don’t make it so that we have to. The rules do however mean the player gets paid at the saints or the blues.

We are only paying 1.7m for TDK the free agent. We won’t be paying that money and assets.

Hopefully it’s finally sunk in. It hasn’t been hard and neither of you have been able to understand this.

When you understand this. You can resume the conversation.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

They can't walk away from the contract offer, but they can absolutely walk away from any trade after the fact.

In which case he goes to the draft, which is never going to happen.

 

[angrynaut]

In which case he goes to the draft, which is never going to happen.

I think by default after signing a contract with the Blues, he'd continue being a Blues player.

Edit: oh, you edited. Either way, Saints can't be forced into a trade.

 

[Tasmanian saint]

You can't walk away. Once you lodge the papers you're locked in to that offer whether Carlton match it or not.

Not how it works mate if a club Matches the offer the other club is not obliged under any rules to actually make a trade if it doesn’t wish , this rarely happens though as it’s not a great look when trying to recruit future players , but worst case Carlton could get stuck with a monster contract,

 

[stavro#4]

He's not going to turn around after Carlton match the offer to force a trade and tell Carlton that he'll accept our offer and return for the extra $ because thats what he always wanted... That would be screwing over Carlton long term and he'd know they'd have absolutely no interest or ability to retain him on that amount of $$$.

At that point it would be up to the Saints to decide whether they're going to go all in and also offer up draft picks via trade or pull out and leave TDK to stay on the offer Carlton has originally put to him.

It's never going to get to the point where the Saints put in the paperwork and Carlton walk away paying TDK 1.7 mil a year.

You genuinely don’t know what you are talking about.

If you match an offer. It’s because you have proven you can fit the offer. Let’s say it’s 1.7m in your cap.

The player will be paid 1.7m. Either by stkilda in free agency or via Carlton retaining him.

There won’t be stkilda paying the bloke 1.7m and you getting assets from us. The 1.7m is the payment to avoid that.

Likewise you can’t negotiate downwards if we don’t trade. You are paying the 1.7m. That’s what you matched.

Hopefully you understand now how utterly insane this proposal has been.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Still missing the point that has been made to you enough times.

A point drive home by our coach tonight using Kemp as an example.

Money isn’t the issue. It’s the vehicle in which we will attain players. Cost is the issue and if we aren’t happy with the asset cost. We won’t do the deal.

Matching a bid doesn’t mean we are ponying up whatever you ask for. Be it Marshall be it multiple picks.

And the rules don’t make it so that we have to. The rules do however mean the player gets paid at the saints or the blues.

We are only paying 1.7m for TDK the free agent. We won’t be paying that money and assets.

Hopefully it’s finally sunk in. It hasn’t been hard and neither of you have been able to understand this.

When you understand this. You can resume the conversation.

Nice try on the Uno reverse card.
Nobody said you would pony up whatever we ask. It would then simply became a trade negotiation like all others.
If it gets to a stale mate, the AFL will step in to mediate.

We're done here.

 

[stavro#4]

Nice try on the Uno reverse card.
Nobody said you would pony up whatever we ask. It would then simply became a trade negotiation like all others.
If it gets to a stale mate, the AFL will step in to mediate.

We're done here.

Mediate.

There is no rule that forces us to trade.

I can’t be any clearer. There is a rule that forces us to discuss one. But not a rule that we must trade.

So if you match this deal with whatever intention. TDK will get paid this 1.7m.

You either accept free agency compo or your pay the 1.7m contract.

It’s really simple. Hope you understand now.

 

[jh38]

Nice try on the Uno reverse card.
Nobody said you would pony up whatever we ask. It would then simply became a trade negotiation like all others.
If it gets to a stale mate, the AFL will step in to mediate.

We're done here.

What the AFL will demand we trade picks?

If we can't reach an agreement, you're stuck paying the 1.7 mil a year. Thats his value on the free market, thats the premium you have to pay to keep him.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Not how it works mate if a club Matches the offer the other club is not obliged under any rules to actually make a trade if it doesn’t wish , this rarely happens though as it’s not a great look when trying to recruit future players , but worst case Carlton could get stuck with a monster contract,

The trade negotiations are a forced outcome, whether that trade is met or not is not. If it's not, fhe player has the option of going to the pre season draft or returning to their club of choice (something TDK would know isn't realistic for Carlton on 1.7 a year)

 

[stavro#4]

The trade negotiations are a forced outcome, whether that trade is met or not is not. If it's not, fhe player has the option of going to the pre season draft or returning to their club of choice (something TDK would know isn't realistic for Carlton on 1.7 a year)

So then he comes to us in the PSD as no one else is paying him 1.7m a year.

Glad we reached the outcome without you getting band 1 compo. It’s probably been my favourite outcome.

 

[angrynaut]

Nice try on the Uno reverse card.
Nobody said you would pony up whatever we ask. It would then simply became a trade negotiation like all others.
If it gets to a stale mate, the AFL will step in to mediate.

We're done here.

If Tom signs with the Blues and the Saints say "we made our offer, he chose the Blues and we're moving on" then there will be nothing to mediate. Mediation is for when two clubs are trying to arrive at a trade agreement, not one club trying to force a trade.

The only reason 1.7 is the number we're talking about is because the Saints have the cash to spend without giving up assets. If Tom wasn't a FA, and Saints were trying to lure him over in a trade the contract offer would be lower because, again, they'd have to give up assets in addition to the cash overpay. If Blues match, the smart thing for the Saints to do is walk away immediately because they'll be overpaying and giving up assets.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

You genuinely don’t know what you are talking about.

If you match an offer. It’s because you have proven you can fit the offer. Let’s say it’s 1.7m in your cap.

The player will be paid 1.7m. Either by stkilda in free agency or via Carlton retaining him.

There won’t be stkilda paying the bloke 1.7m and you getting assets from us. The 1.7m is the payment to avoid that.

Likewise you can’t negotiate downwards if we don’t trade. You are paying the 1.7m. That’s what you matched.

Hopefully you understand now how utterly insane this proposal has been.

Jfc...

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

So then he comes to us in the PSD as no one else is paying him 1.7m a year.

Glad we reached the outcome without you getting band 1 compo. It’s probably been my favourite outcome.

Yes... Because I'm sure Richmond would just watch TDK pass on by in the PSD without batting an eyelid.

 

[stavro#4]

Yes... Because I'm sure Richmond would just watch TDK pass on by in the PSD without batting an eyelid.

You do understand that just because they are bottom that they may not be able to afford that deal.

Like you literally aren’t that silly right?

You understand that it’s a rumoured 1.7m per year for 7 years.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

If Tom signs with the Blues and the Saints say "we made our offer, he chose the Blues and we're moving on" then there will be nothing to mediate. Mediation is for when two clubs are trying to arrive at a trade agreement, not one club trying to force a trade.

The only reason 1.7 is the number we're talking about is because the Saints have the cash to spend without giving up assets. If Tom wasn't a FA, and Saints were trying to lure him over in a trade the contract offer would be lower because, again, they'd have to give up assets in addition to the cash overpay. If Blues match, the smart thing for the Saints to do is walk away immediately because they'll be overpaying and giving up assets.

That's correct, and it's exactly why it will never get to that.

Tdk will either stay at the Blues for less or go to the Saints if the Blues are happy with the compo they'll get back for him. Be that via band 1 compo or via trade.

If the Blues made it known they're going to match a bid because they want more compensation than just band 1 and the Saints make it known they aren't willing to do facilitate a trade and give up draft picks then they'd all part ways and he'd be left with the Blues.

There's no situation where TDK is on the Blues books next year for 1.7mil a year.