Expansion QLD and NSW academies

[kaiserchief13]

F/s is fine by itself as it is swings and roundabouts as long as every club has the same eligibility.

Academies is fine as long as there's a limit of say 1 player every 2-3 drafts per club. Clubs should have to be very selective on who they want to draft for cheap

 

[Maddo11]

F/s is fine by itself as it is swings and roundabouts as long as every club has the same eligibility.

Academies is fine as long as there's a limit of say 1 player every 2-3 drafts per club. Clubs should have to be very selective on who they want to draft for cheap

That's ridiculous. Any kid that is the year behind a clear top pick would just drop out and take a guaranteed money rugby contract.

Maybe one top 18/20 pick every other year sure. With live pick trading on draft night that would make it a lot more interesting for sure.

But why restrict picks outside the first round, picking up a kid with pick 45 doesn't affect the draft at all, and no prospect of being drafted would just cause participation numbers to drop off a cliff

 

[kaiserchief13]

That's ridiculous. Any kid that is the year behind a clear top pick would just drop out and take a guaranteed money rugby contract.

Maybe one top 18/20 pick every other year sure. With live pick trading on draft night that would make it a lot more interesting for sure.

But why restrict picks outside the first round, picking up a kid with pick 45 doesn't affect the draft at all, and no prospect of being drafted would just cause participation numbers to drop off a cliff

Or they could get drafted by another AFL club. What's more important? Fairness of the AFL or having players from NSW and QLD play for NSW/QLD AFL clubs?

 

[powerrrrrrrrrrrr]

That's ridiculous. Any kid that is the year behind a clear top pick would just drop out and take a guaranteed money rugby contract.

Maybe one top 18/20 pick every other year sure. With live pick trading on draft night that would make it a lot more interesting for sure.

But why restrict picks outside the first round, picking up a kid with pick 45 doesn't affect the draft at all, and no prospect of being drafted would just cause participation numbers to drop off a cliff

What nonsense that if a player is rated as a likely top pick that if they don’t get to be drafted to their home state they would just quit footy a year from being drafted in the hope they may suddenly just become rugby players.

You do realise they are completely different sports and being good at footy doesn’t automatically mean you’re going to translate that to rugby.

Amazing how the rest of the countries teenagers manage to get drafted and move interstate if that’s the case without throwing away the game over it. I imagine those from the Northern states would also manage.

 

[GenericUsername202]

People in here need to understand that there isn't a culture of playing AFL up here, and the pathway to become an AFL player isn't clear. You've heard it all in the past that all northern state players were told that they would have a better chance of making it if they moved to perth, or adelaide or melbourne. You may not like it, but acadamies are good for the game. It increases the skill of the game, northern state clubs don't have to worry about losing their players, it grows the game, and it increases the fairness of the game. Likewise, you can't have the AFL run everything. Academy players are tied to the club and its culture, and the AFL can't replicate it. It's staying, and no amount of crying can change it. Also, the AFL competition has never been fair. Not in one moment. We all get advantages and disadvantages. Deal with it and move on.

 

[Maddo11]

.

Amazing how the rest of the countries teenagers manage to get drafted and move interstate if that’s the case without throwing away the game over it. I imagine those from the Northern states would also manage.

Yeah but nsw and qld top athletes can get nrl contracts for big bucks from 16/17/18y/o, and as such get to choose where they go with no draft.

No shit SA and WA kids all go through the draft when there's no other pathway.

 

[1990crow]

The AFL should be running the academies in consultation with all clubs, and making the players available to all clubs.

 

[1990crow]

People in here need to understand that there isn't a culture of playing AFL up here, and the pathway to become an AFL player isn't clear. You've heard it all in the past that all northern state players were told that they would have a better chance of making it if they moved to perth, or adelaide or melbourne. You may not like it, but acadamies are good for the game. It increases the skill of the game, northern state clubs don't have to worry about losing their players, it grows the game, and it increases the fairness of the game. Likewise, you can't have the AFL run everything. Academy players are tied to the club and its culture, and the AFL can't replicate it. It's staying, and no amount of crying can change it. Also, the AFL competition has never been fair. Not in one moment. We all get advantages and disadvantages. Deal with it and move on.

No one disputes this, but the exact same outcome could be reached if the AFL was the owner of the programs and allowing these players to then join the player pool come draft time.

At the moment it's an unfair advantage.

 

[powerrrrrrrrrrrr]

Yeah but nsw and qld top athletes can get nrl contracts for big bucks from 16/17/18y/o, and as such get to choose where they go with no draft.

No shit SA and WA kids all go through the draft when there's no other pathway.

Again you’re just assuming that any talented kid whose going to get drafted will automatically A, like the idea of playing rugby and B, is actually any good at the sport.

The NRL clubs aren’t just going to come and throw money at guys who’ve never played or aren’t even good at the code just because.

If they’ve been playing AFL for the past 10 years with the aim of being drafted and playing they aren’t about to just throw it away because they aren’t tied to the Swans or whoever. They would just move to whoever drafts them like everyone else does, sign decent contracts and earn good money wherever they play.

 

[GenericUsername202]

No one disputes this, but the exact same outcome could be reached if the AFL was the owner of the programs and allowing these players to then join the player pool come draft time.

At the moment it's an unfair advantage.

The point i'm making is that these players wouldn't be in system without the lions or suns, or the sydney teams as well. Likewise, it's not that we're being given them for free. We're matching bids, and highly rated players (such as Marshall) usually absorbs most of our points. It's not like we're bringing in tons of elite players each season. These clubs have spent a lot of time, money, and resources into bringing these players into the league, and they should be compensated for it. And if there ever comes a time where the top 5 players in the draft are academy players, you can bet we wouldn't be able to match all the bids for them.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Again you’re just assuming that any talented kid whose going to get drafted will automatically A, like the idea of playing rugby and B, is actually any good at the sport.

The NRL clubs aren’t just going to come and throw money at guys who’ve never played or aren’t even good at the code just because.

If they’ve been playing AFL for the past 10 years with the aim of being drafted and playing they aren’t about to just throw it away because they aren’t tied to the Swans or whoever. They would just move to whoever drafts them like everyone else does, sign decent contracts and earn good money wherever they play.

That is literally what NRL clubs do and it’s across the league- offer cash before they are 18 to play learn and what not. It’s what the academies do prevent us losing every single decent athlete in non traditional states to the game.

We finally have a good system this year that’s fair for everyone there shouldn’t be any if any more complaining but there will

 

[powerrrrrrrrrrrr]

That is literally what NRL clubs do and it’s across the league- offer cash before they are 18 to play learn and what not. It’s what the academies do prevent us losing every single decent athlete in non traditional states to the game.

We finally have a good system this year that’s fair for everyone there shouldn’t be any if any more complaining but there will

Yeah I don’t see that happening that if you’re a top rated player and just about guaranteed to be drafted to an AFL club that your going to pass it away at the hope of playing another sport that you don’t play and a year before being drafted just because you don’t get to your local club.

Maybe if you are 12 and still deciding what sport you want to play. Not when you are about to get drafted and enter the AFL system and get paid well as well.

 

[1990crow]

The point i'm making is that these players wouldn't be in system without the lions or suns, or the sydney teams as well. Likewise, it's not that we're being given them for free. We're matching bids, and highly rated players (such as Marshall) usually absorbs most of our points. It's not like we're bringing in tons of elite players each season. These clubs have spent a lot of time, money, and resources into bringing these players into the league, and they should be compensated for it. And if there ever comes a time where the top 5 players in the draft are academy players, you can bet we wouldn't be able to match all the bids for them.

You're missing the point that the program should be headed by the AFL, and players available to all clubs.
Otherwise it's a leg up.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Yeah I don’t see that happening that if you’re a top rated player and just about guaranteed to be drafted to an AFL club that your going to pass it away at the hope of playing another sport that you don’t play and a year before being drafted just because you don’t get to your local club.

Maybe if you are 12 and still deciding what sport you want to play. Not when you are about to get drafted and enter the AFL system and get paid well as well.

You aren't from a non traditional state, go and live in NSW and QLD it happens every single year, I mean half the guys in our academy would have been lost to RL had it not been for the academy. People are scouted all the way from their early teens in RL, it's their only way of competing, but at the same time we don't want to lose Mills, Heeney types to the game do we and that's just our one, there's plenty in the Giants that are similar

We are paying fair value now, it is what should have occurred before, that's been the issue not anything else

 

[powerrrrrrrrrrrr]

You aren't from a non traditional state, go and live in NSW and QLD it happens every single year, I mean half the guys in our academy would have been lost to RL had it not been for the academy. People are scouted all the way from their early teens in RL, it's their only way of competing, but at the same time we don't want to lose Mills, Heeney types to the game do we and that's just our one, there's plenty in the Giants that are similar

We are paying fair value now, it is what should have occurred before, that's been the issue not anything else

I actually live in Sydney mate…

There’s a huge difference in being lost to rugby in the early years in comparison to a year before your draft year. That’s what this was all in response to.

A comment that players would be lost to rugby if the Northern clubs could only select 1 player every 2 years out of the academy. Meaning that if last year you used an academy pick, all draft eligible players this year would go into the open draft. I don’t believe for a minute if that was the case, that this years draftees would instead throw away the sport for something they have no experience in and don’t play. They would still go into the open draft as everyone else does.

Yes there is merit in getting players at a younger age into Aussie rules instead of rugby. However once they are at their draft age and have been playing footy for 5,6,7,8 years, and are going to be drafted, they aren’t suddenly going to throw that away for a sport they don’t play.

 

[WillHayward]

I'm sorry but F/S, academies and free agency all impact the draft. If you don't like it don't respond. If you actually read what I said Brisbane got 3 F/Ss and an academy pick in quick succession while contending for flags. You reckon that doesn't annoy fans of other clubs? Quite happy to benefit from a rule that applies to everyone but also quite happy to benefit from a rule that doesn't.

I will repeat the last line for you. Getting close to the point of just letting teams add 5 or 6 18 year olds a year and be done with it. But I bet no Northern club would vote for that. You want the safety net of drafting the best young kids from Vic, SA and WA, you just don't want clubs from Vic, SA and WA drafting the best young kids from Qld and NSW. Which is why the argument is still going after 10 years.

It's definitely a whinge and a valid one if a team is at the bottom of the ladder and getting one pick in the top 30. However you spin the narrative it is up to 10 players a year taken early in the draft not based on ladder position.



Ground breaking. Lance Franklin playing for Sydney was good for footy in Sydney. Watching him kick 8 goals against my team I guess I should have been thinking about growing the game in NSW.



I don't really care about F/S. Make all selections pre-draft for all I care. Clubs have no real control over whether sons of their former players turn out to be stars. Of the top 5 for games played by their father Rhylee West is probably the pick of the bunch. Jobe Watson is the only son of a 300 gamer that you would call a star at this point, Ashcroft x 2 being very young.

Nobody is arguing to abolish academies. Junior development in Vic is not the same as it is in WA or SA or Tassie or NT. The difference is that the best kid in WA is a free for all, the best kid in Qld or NSW isn't. And I've heard 1000 times how the academy players "need" to stay where they are. AFAIC the AFL needs to do away with the trade "period" and introduce live trading. You want Harley Reid, make us an offer after we pick him at #1. You want Levi Ashcroft, make an offer to Melbourne who picked him at #5. That is the only fair system. Otherwise just do away with the draft altogether. The NRL doesn't have one but still has a salary cap so the comp is fairly even.

You make some good points.

Lions have been a bit lucky here. Marcus Ashcroft was a gun player. So was Adrian Fletcher.
Getting 3 gun FS all at the same time seems like a pretty rare event.

I think the AFL will keep the draft not because they think it is actually good for the competition but because they love the media attention and advertising revenue it brings in.

Like everything in the AFL the draft is just a cash cow. Not sure they give two shits if it's fair.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

I actually live in Sydney mate…

There’s a huge difference in being lost to rugby in the early years in comparison to a year before your draft year. That’s what this was all in response to.

A comment that players would be lost to rugby if the Northern clubs could only select 1 player every 2 years out of the academy. Meaning that if last year you used an academy pick, all draft eligible players this year would go into the open draft. I don’t believe for a minute if that was the case, that this years draftees would instead throw away the sport for something they have no experience in and don’t play. They would still go into the open draft as everyone else does.

Yes there is merit in getting players at a younger age into Aussie rules instead of rugby. However once they are at their draft age and have been playing footy for 5,6,7,8 years, and are going to be drafted, they aren’t suddenly going to throw that away for a sport they don’t play.

You are then asking northern sides to have MORE players that are mummies boys, we already got reamed in the Dawson trade, there is a good reason Northern clubs need more local players and if you are from Sydney you should understand that more than most. 1 player in 2 years is nowhere near enough, half the academy would go straight away if you are the 2nd best one or third you have no chance.

Whether it's a year before the draft which rarely happens, the top ones usually are known for 3, 4, 5 plus years leading into a draft.

You want to almost remove the academy with your idea, it's completely unfair, and you may as well name it VFL again with a sprinking of SA/WA, teams in QLD/NSW have no chance would lose 3-5 players every year.

The restrictions have come in this year with paying fair value, the years before were a joke I agree with that but blame the AFL who refused to change the system until GC got everyone that year

 

[powerrrrrrrrrrrr]

1 player in 2 years is nowhere near enough, half the academy would go straight away if you are the 2nd best one or third you have no chance.

All it would mean is that the Swans would just have to select the other player with their actual draft picks instead of matching players with discounted or late picks.

Can match 1 player over a 2 year period and if they want to select others from their academy, use their picks that are available. Want a second or third round talent, use your second or third pick.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

All it would mean is that the Swans would just have to select the other player with their actual draft picks instead of matching players with discounted or late picks.

Can match 1 player over a 2 year period and if they want to select others from their academy, use their picks that are available. Want a second or third round talent, use your second or third pick.

It's nowhere near enough, you want that well VIC and traditional states can hand back some of their advantages. Lets start with the home grand final okay.

You do realise we can't match with late picks anymore right, only rounds 1-3 are worth anything and we will be paying twice as much, it's fair.

 

[ferball]

Amazing how the rest of the countries teenagers manage to get drafted and move interstate if that’s the case without throwing away the game over it. I imagine those from the Northern states would also manage.

Most of them anyway.

 

[qlderlions]

I actually live in Sydney mate…

There’s a huge difference in being lost to rugby in the early years in comparison to a year before your draft year. That’s what this was all in response to.

A comment that players would be lost to rugby if the Northern clubs could only select 1 player every 2 years out of the academy. Meaning that if last year you used an academy pick, all draft eligible players this year would go into the open draft. I don’t believe for a minute if that was the case, that this years draftees would instead throw away the sport for something they have no experience in and don’t play. They would still go into the open draft as everyone else does.

Yes there is merit in getting players at a younger age into Aussie rules instead of rugby. However once they are at their draft age and have been playing footy for 5,6,7,8 years, and are going to be drafted, they aren’t suddenly going to throw that away for a sport they don’t play.

Here is two prominent examples to debunk your last paragraph

NRL: Kayln Ponga (lions) and Tom Trbojevic (swans) two examples for you that played in the academies until 17th year. Both went on to play for NRL QLD/NSW in SOO and Australia.

My cousin got signed on good money at 15 to be part of a development program aligned to a NRL club. This is what the AFL is competing against, would you wait just playing AFL junior club until you turned 18?.

In QLD - AFL is banned from being played by the top GPS private schools so you don't have the elite private school development pathways full ex AFL players like Mathew Llyod that are in Melbourne. It is Rugby Union or nothing in the Elite Private Schools in QLD, in our junior AFL club a lot of promising talent drop off the AFL list to concentrate on Rugby Union in their mid teens accordingly.

QLD is a completely different market, I have also lived in both WA and Victoria for long periods (15 years) so I understand the different development pathways in each market.

I think the biggest issue with AFL pathways in WA is the WA football commission, which is 20 years behind the rest of the other state-based organizations' in developing junior talent (WAFC just interested in running the WAFL at high cost then investing in much underneath).

 

[GenericUsername202]

You're missing the point that the program should be headed by the AFL, and players available to all clubs.
Otherwise it's a leg up.

Of course its a leg up, but we also have more disadvantages than other clubs, so we need this leg up for the competition to feel truly equal.

 

[kaiserchief13]

Of course its a leg up, but we also have more disadvantages than other clubs, so we need this leg up for the competition to feel truly equal.

What disadvantages does Brisbane have over the WA and SA clubs?

 

[Philhawk]

Participation in Queensland this year has apparently hit 90k which if W.A hasn't grown much (87k last year), it will be the second biggest football participation state in Australia now. This is a good thing for the game.

Wonderful, so goal accomplished. Remove academies now then.

 

[Philhawk]

What disadvantages does Brisbane have over the WA and SA clubs?

Yeh I’d love to know.