Autopsy 8 point loss to Port

[davidyoung]

Also constantly got caught behind Ratugolea who is a massive unit. Couldn't even provide a contest. Then when he swung back, gave away a couple of frees and still looked lost. He had an absolute shocka.

Let’s face it McCartin although greatly courageous and a determined competitor is at best a B plus key defender. At the moment the poor bastard does not know if he is coming or going and looked it yesterday. The jig is up Cox get him back to fullback and let him do what he does best.

 

[caesar88]

So you blame Heeney!!

Have a look at our mids.
The ones that win the ball out of centre bounces and stappages is
Heeney
Rowbottom
maybe Jordon
maybe Warner
That is our formidable inside mid brigade winning first use.

The rest of our midfield on the weekend was
Lloyd
McInerney
Florent
Corey Warner

When we went on a run of wins last year guess who played most of those games and played inside?
Adams.

Now I am not advocating Adams to be the saviour but he is a genuine inside mid.
Mills is a genuine inside mid. But he is injured.
We don't have the bulls in the guts.
We have the glamour boys on the outside and when they get the ball we look pretty good.

Wolftone blames Heeney!!
You don't need to be a rocket scientist to decide who to target to destroy the Swans.
Heeney was scragged all day. Credit to him to do as well as he did.

Heeney needs genuine inside mid help.

I kind of agree but also kind of don't.

Not sure we can help Heeney more than we already are. When he's at a stoppage with Rowy putting blocks on and Jordon taking care of the opposition's best mid, they're not doing that so that they can be the primary ball-winner in there; they're doing that so that Heeney can, and so that it's easier for him to do so. That is his job, and he does it well, but maybe not as well as we need, and not as well as his counterparts from other teams who also get targetted most weeks, like Bontempelli, Butters, Serong, Daicos etc. but still have huge games.

Heeney having four touches in a half of footy is not his teammates' faults. Heeney having some awful defensive moments in the centre yesterday is not his teammates' faults. Heeney being fumbly as shit against Freo a month back is not his teammates' faults.

So I just can't feel that badly for him because I think he's had his opportunities to impact in games this year and hasn't always taken them. He, like many really, is just that 10-15% off his best, which is not a hanging offence. Still been one of our best players so far.

 

[davidyoung]

Panics a lot, but at least he is willing to go get the ****en thing , sometimes I think guys don’t lead and don’t chase it because of fear of failure or something

That stood out like dogs Niagara Falls in the first half. Blokes looked hesitant to go and leave it others for fear of making a blue.

 

[davidyoung]

The disaster this season is turning out to be is just compounding the monumental failure of last year.

So to underline it we have pissed opportunity up against the wall. Salt in wound.

 

[davidyoung]

I kind of agree but also kind of don't.

Not sure we can help Heeney more than we already are. When he's at a stoppage with Rowy putting blocks on and Jordon taking care of the opposition's best mid, they're not doing that so that they can be the primary ball-winner in there; they're doing that so that Heeney can, and so that it's easier for him to do so. That is his job, and he does it well, but maybe not as well as we need, and not as well as his counterparts from other teams who also get targetted most weeks, like Bontempelli, Butters, Serong, Daicos etc. but still have huge games.

Heeney having four touches in a half of footy is not his teammates' faults. Heeney having some awful defensive moments in the centre yesterday is not his teammates' faults. Heeney being fumbly as shit against Freo a month back is not his teammates' faults.

So I just can't feel that badly for him because I think he's had his opportunities to impact in games this year and hasn't always taken them. He, like many really, is just that 10-15% off his best, which is not a hanging offence.

Umpires don’t help Heeney at all. They reward the leeches holding him at every opportunity. I have a mate who is a massive Pies man and he says without any fear of trepidation that Heeney plays for Collingwood or Carlton he would be the most protected player in the comp.

 

[The King!]

****en invincible at home last year mostly

 

[caesar88]

****en invincible at home last year mostly

The SCG size thing is definitely overblown by the media, but it is smaller and it punishes turnovers more than a bigger ground like the MCG or Optus.

And you might've noticed we've been turning it over a bit this year

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

So to underline it we have pissed opportunity up against the wall. Salt in wound.

More like the last decade

 

[Kbroome]

So you blame Heeney!!

Have a look at our mids.
The ones that win the ball out of centre bounces and stappages is
Heeney
Rowbottom
maybe Jordon
maybe Warner
That is our formidable inside mid brigade winning first use.

The rest of our midfield on the weekend was
Lloyd
McInerney
Florent
Corey Warner

When we went on a run of wins last year guess who played most of those games and played inside?
Adams.

Now I am not advocating Adams to be the saviour but he is a genuine inside mid.
Mills is a genuine inside mid. But he is injured.
We don't have the bulls in the guts.
We have the glamour boys on the outside and when they get the ball we look pretty good.

Wolftone blames Heeney!!
You don't need to be a rocket scientist to decide who to target to destroy the Swans.
Heeney was scragged all day. Credit to him to do as well as he did.

Heeney needs genuine inside mid help.

Sounds like ur suggesting another reliable ball winner in the midfield...

 

[davidyoung]

More like the last decade

Where did I say just last year ?
Let’s not understate it.

 

[Jack2Jack]

We rolled out yesterday (and almost every other week for the last year) with 9 players you could class as flankers and a debatable 10th. Even going with 9 that's 39% of the selected side (including sub). I know traditional positions mean sfa these days but using traditional line ups there's only 6 flank positions on the field.....and there's not 3 flankers on the bench at a time.
It feels so mis-balanced, well not just feels because it looks like it too....especially in the back half. Always feels 1 or 2 too many square pegs in a round hole at all times.

It seems like an over-correction in the list build, previous era we were so stocked with genuine mids we had to stick them on flanks and maybe lacked some good outside flankers.....now it's like it's the complete opposite, where it feels like the side is always lacking at least 1 genuine mid a week.

Cox probably hasn't had a choice with availability, but if he's trying to build a harder edge surely when we get a bit more personnel back surely we'll be playing at least 1 less flanker per week?
It's hard to get a read on what he wants us to be atm, some of the efforts he accepts from leaders (alot of whom are in this flanker group) don't quite marry to the words he says when he talks about what we value, particularly the pressure/contest/tackling stuff he bangs on about.

 

[joeykanga]

Roberts had 30 possessions - we tend to remember the ones he butchered.

Howvever, I still think he had a superior game when compared to our flankers, Corey and McI, who really had no impact on the game & simply didn’t find the ball. Or Lloyd, who tends to just stop and wait, before bombing it.

Roberts has done plenty right this year. He’s not quick, but he’s solid. And he doesn’t fall off tackles the way some others do.

I can't stand the way Lloyd doesn't play on. I wouldn't mind if he didn't play on and chose the right option. I think he's trying to do the right thing because we were bombing it and kicking it to their spare. But after an annoying amount of tine he just bombs it to where the defence is set up. Whats the point. Might as well do it when he first takes the ball. The defence would be under more pressure and there'd be some chance of a result.
I thought McInerney was.alright and actually gave us quick decision making and attacking options which is our problem at the moment.

 

[davidyoung]

We rolled out yesterday (and almost every other week for the last year) with 9 players you could class as flankers and a debatable 10th. Even going with 9 that's 39% of the selected side (including sub). I know traditional positions mean sfa these days but using traditional line ups there's only 6 flank positions on the field.....and there's not 3 flankers on the bench at a time.
It feels so mis-balanced, well not just feels because it looks like it too....especially in the back half. Always feels 1 or 2 too many square pegs in a round hole at all times.

It seems like an over-correction in the list build, previous era we were so stocked with genuine mids we had to stick them on flanks and maybe lacked some good outside flankers.....now it's like it's the complete opposite, where it feels like the side is always lacking at least 1 genuine mid a week.

Cox probably hasn't had a choice with availability, but if he's trying to build a harder edge surely when we get a bit more personnel back surely we'll be playing at least 1 less flanker per week?
It's hard to get a read on what he wants us to be atm, some of the efforts he accepts from leaders (alot of whom are in this flanker group) don't quite marry to the words he says when he talks about what we value, particularly the pressure/contest/tackling stuff he bangs on about.

To use an old cliche talk is cheap

 

[caesar88]

We rolled out yesterday (and almost every other week for the last year) with 9 players you could class as flankers and a debatable 10th. Even going with 9 that's 39% of the selected side (including sub). I know traditional positions mean sfa these days but using traditional line ups there's only 6 flank positions on the field.....and there's not 3 flankers on the bench at a time.
It feels so mis-balanced, well not just feels because it looks like it too....especially in the back half. Always feels 1 or 2 too many square pegs in a round hole at all times.

It seems like an over-correction in the list build, previous era we were so stocked with genuine mids we had to stick them on flanks and maybe lacked some good outside flankers.....now it's like it's the complete opposite, where it feels like the side is always lacking at least 1 genuine mid a week.

Cox probably hasn't had a choice with availability, but if he's trying to build a harder edge surely when we get a bit more personnel back surely we'll be playing at least 1 less flanker per week?
It's hard to get a read on what he wants us to be atm, some of the efforts he accepts from leaders (alot of whom are in this flanker group) don't quite marry to the words he says when he talks about what we value, particularly the pressure/contest/tackling stuff he bangs on about.

To be fair, based on all of the pre-season reports it seemed like two of the harder midfield types that Cox was going to have in the team - Mills & Cleary - were unavailable to start the year. Mills will be an automatic inclusion and Cox seems to rate Cleary, already giving him some midfield time.

 

[rustycrate]

I kind of agree but also kind of don't.

Not sure we can help Heeney more than we already are. When he's at a stoppage with Rowy putting blocks on and Jordon taking care of the opposition's best mid, they're not doing that so that they can be the primary ball-winner in there; they're doing that so that Heeney can, and so that it's easier for him to do so. That is his job, and he does it well, but maybe not as well as we need, and not as well as his counterparts from other teams who also get targetted most weeks, like Bontempelli, Butters, Serong, Daicos etc. but still have huge games.

Heeney having four touches in a half of footy is not his teammates' faults. Heeney having some awful defensive moments in the centre yesterday is not his teammates' faults. Heeney being fumbly as shit against Freo a month back is not his teammates' faults.

So I just can't feel that badly for him because I think he's had his opportunities to impact in games this year and hasn't always taken them. He, like many really, is just that 10-15% off his best, which is not a hanging offence. Still been one of our best players so far.

My point was that he has no foil.
You shut him down and you pretty much shut down the Swans. Scrag Heeney and you win. Well that is what they did.
Simple game plan.

Every team playing the Swans knows that you target Heeney. You are then halfway to winning.

Rowbottom, part time Warner, part time Jordon. That is Heeney's backup/cohort/mid enforcement group. It is a joke.

Put Mills/Adams in and things will change. Without them it is still the same clowns and the same circus. Sheldrick is the only alternative and he is way off.

 

[Kbroome]

My point was that he has no foil.
You shut him down and you pretty much shut down the Swans. Scrag Heeney and you win. Well that is what they did.
Simple game plan.

Every team playing the Swans knows that you target Heeney. You are then halfway to winning.

Rowbottom, part time Warner, part time Jordon. That is Heeney's backup/cohort/mid enforcement group. It is a joke.

Put Mills/Adams in and things will change. Without them it is still the same clowns and the same circus. Sheldrick is the only alternative and he is way off.

Yep Heeney I feel like is very similar to Brayshaw, Rowbottom similar to Young and JJ similar to a certain degree to O'Meara but instead of us having Cleary (developing mid) and JMac/Campbell Freo have Serong their second big midfielder pig. Yes they aren't winning games but that is the general setup amongst most teams except for us

 

[caesar88]

My point was that he has no foil.
You shut him down and you pretty much shut down the Swans. Scrag Heeney and you win. Well that is what they did.
Simple game plan.

Every team playing the Swans knows that you target Heeney. You are then halfway to winning.

Rowbottom, part time Warner, part time Jordon. That is Heeney's backup/cohort/mid enforcement group. It is a joke.

Put Mills/Adams in and things will change. Without them it is still the same clowns and the same circus. Sheldrick is the only alternative and he is way off.

Well, not sure I agree with this take rusty. We have looked a contender in the past without Heeney even in the mids.

It comes down to set-up IMO. We just need to have our mids be more on the move to actually win some loose balls and clearances out of the stoppages.

We only ever have one and that has been the case for years now.

 

[rustycrate]

Well, not sure I agree with this take rusty. We have looked a contender in the past without Heeney even in the mids.

It comes down to set-up IMO. We just need to have our mids be more on the move to actually win some loose balls and clearances out of the stoppages.

We only ever have one and that has been the case for years now.

I think we are 1 short inside. Adams and Mills will alleviate this.
Just too predictable and no other options with Heeney/Robottom/pt Warner/pt Jordon.
No pt Papley as well.

Just too predictable.

 

[Punts]

No way mills will just walk straight back into senior footy in the middle and make a huge impact

Think some are forgetting last year when we tried playing him straight in the middle then had to move back because he was struggling big time

He isn’t the Bont

 

[Adnico26Parker]

Brodie copping another $10k fine for striking

 

[The King!]

No way mills will just walk straight back into senior footy in the middle and make a huge impact

Think some are forgetting last year when we tried playing him straight in the middle then had to move back because he was struggling big time

He isn’t the Bont

He basically hasn’t played fit since the 23 Carlton final. be ****ing unfair to rush him back

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

Does that mean next strike he gets a week?

 

[caesar88]

I think we are 1 short inside. Adams and Mills will alleviate this.
Just too predictable and no other options with Heeney/Robottom/pt Warner/pt Jordon.
No pt Papley as well.

Just too predictable.

Adams and/or Mills will probably just play the same roles that the others are playing. Adams would play the blocking role that Rowbottom plays when Rowy's on the bench and Mills would just take Jordon's place as the tagging mid in there.

We seem to have a very clear set-up for how we want our midfield dynamics to be and won't shift from it regardless of personnel. And the dynamics never seem to be based around winning the ball out of there.

 

[The King!]

Adams and/or Mills will probably just play the same roles that the others are playing. Adams would play the blocking role that Rowbottom plays when Rowy's on the bench and Mills would just take Jordon's place as the tagging mid in there.

We seem to have a very clear set-up for how we want our midfield dynamics to be and won't shift from it regardless of personnel. And the dynamics never seem to be based around winning the ball out of there.

If Adams was fit they’d play him 60% game time and half forwarded with like 2 centre bounce attendances

 

[Punts]

If Adams was fit they’d play him 60% game time and half forwarded with like 2 centre bounce attendances

Imo that’s because I honestly think his body can’t cope with being in the ball