ANZAC Day vs Welcome to Country

[Demonic Ascent]

A couple of years ago the Australian government held a referendum to give indigenous Australians their own voice. No other ethnic group in Australia was afforded that. No other ethnic group in Australia has jobs reserved specifically for their ethnic group either apart from indigenous Australians. Indigenous Australians also receive twice the amount of public funding as non-indigenous Australians. It's almost as though indigenous Australians are more Australian than other Australians, which is exactly what the Welcome to Country suggests.

It's almost as though one group had crimes (such as dispossession, ethnic cleansing, genocide) perpetrated against them via colonisation that has never been remedied and still suffer the impact of those crimes today.

 

[Gough]

It's almost as though one group had crimes (such as dispossession, ethnic cleansing, genocide) perpetrated against them via colonisation that has never been remedied and still suffer the impact of those crimes today.

While we're genuflecting at a shrine for people who checks notes died in 1915 we're also told that we bear no responsibility for the past. Let's call it the ANZAC Paradox.

 

[Gough]

In terms of securing these beloved freedoms for modern Australia the settlers who fought the Frontier Wars probably did as much as any soldier fighting overseas did but people seem very reluctant to talk about that.

 

[schneebly111]

In terms of securing these beloved freedoms for modern Australia the settlers who fought the Frontier Wars probably did as much as any soldier fighting overseas did but people seem very reluctant to talk about that.

What above the only people to have resisted and defended this land against foreign invaders, the brave indigenous warriors like Pemulwuy who fought a guerrilla war against the foreign British invaders - why isn’t he celebrated as a national hero?

Pemulwuy - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[kaiserchief13]

It's almost as though one group had crimes (such as dispossession, ethnic cleansing, genocide) perpetrated against them via colonisation that has never been remedied and still suffer the impact of those crimes today.

Yeah because people today are responsible for actions 100+ years ago. Not to mention the people impacted are all dead now.....if every country lived in the past there would be ceremonies for Jews, ceremonies for African Americans, ceremonies for any country who has had wars in the past, non stop ceremonies about everything. Yes indigenous people can have a day a year for remembering what happened or something similar but doing it constantly is the issue

 

[CM86]

Yeah because people today are responsible for actions 100+ years ago. Not to mention the people impacted are all dead now.....if every country lived in the past there would be ceremonies for Jews, ceremonies for African Americans, ceremonies for any country who has had wars in the past, non stop ceremonies about everything. Yes indigenous people can have a day a year for remembering what happened or something similar but doing it constantly is the issue

The Stolen Generation was still happening into the 70s.

 

[CM86]

A couple of years ago the Australian government held a referendum to give indigenous Australians their own voice. No other ethnic group in Australia was afforded that. No other ethnic group in Australia has jobs reserved specifically for their ethnic group either apart from indigenous Australians. Indigenous Australians also receive twice the amount of public funding as non-indigenous Australians. It's almost as though indigenous Australians are more Australian than other Australians, which is exactly what the Welcome to Country suggests.

At least this poster is honest with their hate of Aboriginal people, and how they view them as a sub class.

It's disgusting, but it's more honest than posters like Achy Blakey Heart, Frank Bunn, Dutton etc

Mikey is pointing out that it's not about ANZACs, it's about the inclusivity of Aboriginal people as equals in our society.
The honesty is tarred, but refreshing.

 

[QuietB]

Yeah because people today are responsible for actions 100+ years ago. Not to mention the people impacted are all dead now.....if every country lived in the past there would be ceremonies for Jews, ceremonies for African Americans, ceremonies for any country who has had wars in the past, non stop ceremonies about everything. Yes indigenous people can have a day a year for remembering what happened or something similar but doing it constantly is the issue

If that is the case why bother with ANZAC day at all?

It was 100+ years ago as well?

 

[kaiserchief13]

If that is the case why bother with ANZAC day at all?

It was 100+ years ago as well?

Miss this part of my post:

Yes indigenous people can have a day a year for remembering what happened or something similar but doing it constantly is the issue

 

[Maggie5]

A couple of years ago the Australian government held a referendum to give indigenous Australians their own voice. No other ethnic group in Australia was afforded that. No other ethnic group in Australia has jobs reserved specifically for their ethnic group either apart from indigenous Australians. Indigenous Australians also receive twice the amount of public funding as non-indigenous Australians. It's almost as though indigenous Australians are more Australian than other Australians, which is exactly what the Welcome to Country suggests.

Which ethnic group was here before the Indigenous Australians that are missing out?

 

[Mikey13G]

Which ethnic group was here before the Indigenous Australians that are missing out?

All ethnic groups are missing out because we are all supposed to be Australian. If we believe that indigenous Australians are deserving of more rights than other Australians we start going down a slippery slope of division.

 

[faible]

so he must be a neo-nazi or far right?

He's literally on video saying “Australia for the white man”.

 

[faible]

QUESTION. Is there any other country in the world who has to stick up with 3 flags and welcome to country week in week out.
The vote was no but the bullshit continues.
I'm not anti indigenous, I'm anti bullshit

Plenty of countries fly multiple flags, yes.

I doubt you're seeing a Welcome to Country every week.

 

[schneebly111]

Yes indigenous people can have a day a year for remembering what happened or something similar but doing it constantly is the issue

We are bombarded with Anzac stuff in the media, education system, political thought.

But how many regular Australians know about the Frontier wars that occurred in this country? The systemic killings that amounted to a genocide? The active discrimination?

In school I was not taught about the first two things, the discrimination against indigenous people was touched on but was taught it stopped “in the 60s” and now there’s no problems.

 

[schneebly111]

He's literally on video saying “Australia for the white man”.

But that’s not far from the truth.

The original Anzacs did “fight for the white man”. They enlisted under the pretext that supporting the British Empire in their fight against the Muslim Turks meant the British would help the White Australians defend their country from the Japanese or Chinese. The White Australia Policy was all the rage back then and it had a big impact on all parts of society including why we went to war.



And the sentiment isn’t far off current day soldiers. I’ve heard them talk and the usual anti migrant statements “I didn’t volunteer to serve this country so we could import the third world here to replace me” are common.

 

[faible]

Yeah because people today are responsible for actions 100+ years ago. Not to mention the people impacted are all dead now.....if every country lived in the past there would be ceremonies for Jews, ceremonies for African Americans, ceremonies for any country who has had wars in the past, non stop ceremonies about everything. Yes indigenous people can have a day a year for remembering what happened or something similar but doing it constantly is the issue

There's multiple major, permanent memorials in various parts of Germany regarding the actions of the Nazi regime.

One of the key phrases from Anzac Day 'lest we forget' doesn't mean 'forget some stuff that's inconvenient'.

 

[faible]

But that’s not far from the truth.

The original Anzacs did “fight for the white man”. They enlisted under the pretext that supporting the British Empire in their fight against the Muslim Turks meant the British would help the White Australians defend their country from the Japanese or Chinese. The White Australia Policy was all the rage back then and it had a big impact on all parts of society including why we went to war.

View attachment 2299889

And the sentiment isn’t far off current day soldiers. I’ve heard them talk and the usual anti migrant statements “I didn’t volunteer to serve this country so we could import the third world here to replace me” are common.

None of which makes our friend shouting it any less rascist. I don't think it's at all unreasonable to suggest that a guy saying those things in the presence of neo-nazis, might himself be a neo-nazi or far-right supporter.

People aren't simply claiming he was those things because he happened to be accidentally and unknowingly standing near a neo-nazi.

 

[Sydney Kicker]

All ethnic groups are missing out because we are all supposed to be Australian. If we believe that indigenous Australians are deserving of more rights than other Australians we start going down a slippery slope of division.

It's not about more rights (or more money lest you go down that path). It's about respect, closing the gap and improving the health and wellbeing of Aboriginal people.

Sometimes you need a policy, law, initiative or program to help those who are more disadvantaged. Single parents get far more money from taxpayers than the average Aussie because they are more disadvantaged. Ditto new migrants.

Everybody getting the same treatment leads to more division as economic and social gaps become wider and wider. It leads to more crime and social disfunction and health problems. That's the way the US is going.

Probably makes sense then why the free market right wing has jumped on Welcome to Country.

 

[faible]

It's not about more rights (or more money lest you go down that path). It's about respect, closing the gap and improving the health and wellbeing of Aboriginal people.

Sometimes you need a policy, law, initiative or program to help those who are more disadvantaged. Single parents get far more money from taxpayers than the average Aussie because they are more disadvantaged. Ditto new migrants.

Everybody getting the same treatment leads to more division as economic and social gaps become wider and wider. It leads to more crime and social disfunction and health problems. That's the way the US is going.

Probably makes sense then why the free market right wing has jumped on Welcome to Country.

Next he'll be arguing that access ramps and disabled toilets are discriminatory.

 

[Maggie5]

All ethnic groups are missing out because we are all supposed to be Australian. If we believe that indigenous Australians are deserving of more rights than other Australians we start going down a slippery slope of division.

Not what I asked!

Which ethnic group was here before the Indigenous Australians that are missing out?

 

[Mikey13G]

Yeah because people today are responsible for actions 100+ years ago. Not to mention the people impacted are all dead now.....if every country lived in the past there would be ceremonies for Jews, ceremonies for African Americans, ceremonies for any country who has had wars in the past, non stop ceremonies about everything. Yes indigenous people can have a day a year for remembering what happened or something similar but doing it constantly is the issue

The more the pendulum swings the more pushback there is going to be. Australia's population is 27.3 million. The vast majority of those 27.3 million had absolutely nothing to do with historical mistreatment of indigenous Australians.

John Howard has criticised Kevin Rudd's 2008 apology to the Stolen Generations

Former prime minister John Howard says he didn’t support a formal apology to the Stolen Generations, which Kevin Rudd delivered in 2008, as it was an “empty gesture” and "meaningless".

www.sbs.com.au

In an interview marking the release of the 2001 Cabinet papers, Mr Howard said he stood by that decision.

"I think it's very simple; a country doesn't make a treaty with itself," he said.

He also defended his decision not to apologise to the Stolen Generations when he was prime minister.

"I was not in favour of an apology for a couple of reasons. The first one was that the idea of one generation apologising for the acts of another is an empty gesture," he said.

"If you apologise for your own behaviour, that has meaning, but I think it's a very empty thing for one generation to say 'well, we apologise for something that was done by other people'. That's meaningless."

The Voice Referendum illustrated this clearly where the NO vote for the voice was largest within ethnically diverse communities.

Don’t be surprised if ethnic communities vote No

If polls are correct about the triumph of the No vote, expect large numbers of multicultural voters to be part of the revolt against establishment bodies.

www.afr.com

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Yeah because people today are responsible for actions 100+ years ago. Not to mention the people impacted are all dead now.....if every country lived in the past there would be ceremonies for Jews, ceremonies for African Americans, ceremonies for any country who has had wars in the past, non stop ceremonies about everything. Yes indigenous people can have a day a year for remembering what happened or something similar but doing it constantly is the issue

Indigenous Australians still suffer the effects of the crimes committed as part of colonisation. To suggest we should all just forgot about it because it happened some time in the past would be laughable if it weren't so offensive. As offensive as me saying why do we bother with ANZAC Day, all the ANZAC's are dead and it happened a long time ago.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

The more the pendulum swings the more pushback there is going to be. Australia's population is 27.3 million. The vast majority of those 27.3 million had absolutely nothing to do with historical mistreatment of indigenous Australians.

The vast majority of those 27.3 million still benefit from the crimes perpetrated against indigenous Australians.

If the pendulum swings, as you say, it will be towards more racism, vilification, oppression etc. If that's who you want to cast your lot with that's your choice, I prefer to sleep soundly knowing I'm not siding with neo-Nazis.

 

[schneebly111]

Indigenous Australians still suffer the effects of the crimes committed as part of colonisation. To suggest we should all just forgot about it because it happened some time in the past would be laughable if it weren't so offensive. As offensive as me saying why do we bother with ANZAC Day, all the ANZAC's are dead and it happened a long time ago.

That’s the key bit to me.

Either remember what happened to indigenous people AND the Anzacs or forget them both. History isn’t there to be chopped and selected as you deem fit. Either teach it all or forget it all

 

[Saint]

"Forget about the past, we're trying to celebrate ANZAC Day"
"Stop elevating one group above others, we're celebrating what blokey blokes the Diggers were and how they loved fighting wars."