Opinion Should we change our name for Indigenous round?

[gouki88]

It’s a pretty poor option.

Depends on your perspective.

The Australia Day conversation is boring – but 26 January marks an incredible history of Indigenous resistance | Celeste Liddle

‘Changing the date’ has little to do with why we march on 26 January. In taking to the streets, we honour those who kept the fires of resistance burning before us

www.theguardian.com

 

[jmac70]

Depends on your perspective.

The Australia Day conversation is boring – but 26 January marks an incredible history of Indigenous resistance | Celeste Liddle

‘Changing the date’ has little to do with why we march on 26 January. In taking to the streets, we honour those who kept the fires of resistance burning before us

www.theguardian.com

The 26th January is the date that the English stole this land. It’s not the date we became Australia.

 

[gouki88]

The 26th January is the date that the English stole this land. It’s not the date we became Australia.

I don’t disagree (however hard it would be to convince the nation to have it on January 1).

But the article steps out some arguments about how the date could potentially be used as a vehicle for truth-telling & reconciliation - which we seem to be a while away from.

It will continue to be the Day of Mourning. I think there is room for a celebration of Australia, on a different date, but 26 January is important for symbolising that which happened

 

[granniewolf]

Just change the date. I want to keep an Australia day but if it upsets a lot of people to have it on that day, then the sensible thing is to change it.

Jan 1 1901 Australia became a federation, maybe that day, even if it is NYD. Just rename NYD to Australia Day.
Of course we lose a holiday that way.
Jan 26, Arthur Phillips stuck a British Flag in the soil and started a penal colony.

Does anyone else remember Empire Day also known as Cracker Night? We would get a half day off school and rush home to start building a bonfire.
This was May24, why not reclaim that Day for Australia Day.

 

[jimmy35]

12th February is the date Australia really became complete.

 

[gouki88]

12th February is the date Australia really became complete.

A date all can get behind

 

[jmac70]

Jan 1 1901 Australia became a federation, maybe that day, even if it is NYD. Just rename NYD to Australia Day.
Of course we lose a holiday that way.
Jan 26, Arthur Phillips stuck a British Flag in the soil and started a penal colony.

Does anyone else remember Empire Day also known as Cracker Night? We would get a half day off school and rush home to start building a bonfire.
This was May24, why not reclaim that Day for Australia Day.

Bonfire night was awesome.

 

[DaicosDisciple35]

Further on this, I find it interesting that Darwin is in talks for the next team. Personally, I think this team should be called the Larrakia somethings, having a team in the AFL with a proudly aboriginal name would make it stand out. Unfortunately all the name changing clubs have stolen the opportunity for a Darwin team to run out with the first aboriginal name for a club.

 

[DaicosDisciple35]

Yes I really respect the PoVs being expressed.

I lean toward "listening to local indigenous people".

Changing a name of a footy club could well be gimmicky, even condescending but if it involves respectful listening then that's a bit of a change for the better.

Respectful listening isn't how you win against casual racism.

Everyone should be respectfully listened to and enforcing the will of a very small group of people under the guise of respectful listening ultimately fails the pub test because the easy question is "why are they listened to but not me" that's why you have to do the ground work before forcing changes on people otherwise they don't feel consulted.

Fighting racism takes everyone not just ivory tower elite progressives deciding respectful listening means listening to consultants over their own club members.

 

[manicpie]

Jan 1 1901 Australia became a federation, maybe that day, even if it is NYD. Just rename NYD to Australia Day.
Of course we lose a holiday that way.
Jan 26, Arthur Phillips stuck a British Flag in the soil and started a penal colony.

Does anyone else remember Empire Day also known as Cracker Night? We would get a half day off school and rush home to start building a bonfire.
This was May24, why not reclaim that Day for Australia Day.

I remember cracker night. How good was it. They used to have a bonfire here also.

 

[Cyclops]

Respectful listening isn't how you win against casual racism.

Not trying to win against casual racism. The club has a past problem with institutional racism, they're trying to give indigenous people a look in. It's not much, but it's a start.

Everyone should be respectfully listened to and enforcing the will of a very small group of people under the guise of respectful listening ultimately fails the pub test because the easy question is "why are they listened to but not me" that's why you have to do the ground work before forcing changes on people otherwise they don't feel consulted.

You can't run a footy club out of a pub.

If you want an indigenous local name, ask an indigenous local.

If the club reckons its a hood idea, I'll go along with it.

Fighting racism takes everyone not just ivory tower elite progressives deciding respectful listening means listening to consultants over their own club members.

Who in the current club is an ivory tower elite? Was Eddie an ivory tower elite? Bucks? Fly? Bobby Hill?

Eddie thought we should Do Better. I agree.

 

[Bianconeri]

Further on this, I find it interesting that Darwin is in talks for the next team. Personally, I think this team should be called the Larrakia somethings, having a team in the AFL with a proudly aboriginal name would make it stand out. Unfortunately all the name changing clubs have stolen the opportunity for a Darwin team to run out with the first aboriginal name for a club.

I don’t count only temporarily changing your name for a couple of weeks so a Darwin team if they had the an Aboriginal name would still be the first for mine.

 

[DaicosDisciple35]

Not trying to win against casual racism. The club has a past problem with institutional racism, they're trying to give indigenous people a look in. It's not much, but it's a start.


You can't run a footy club out of a pub.

If you want an indigenous local name, ask an indigenous local.

If the club reckons its a hood idea, I'll go along with it.



Who in the current club is an ivory tower elite? Was Eddie an ivory tower elite? Bucks? Fly? Bobby Hill?

Eddie thought we should Do Better. I agree.

You can’t run a footy club out of a pub when Collingwood was literally founded in one shows that I’m not talking to someone serious about the clubs history or its duties to include its members in decision making and consultation.

 

[gouki88]

Respectful listening isn't how you win against casual racism.

Everyone should be respectfully listened to and enforcing the will of a very small group of people under the guise of respectful listening ultimately fails the pub test because the easy question is "why are they listened to but not me" that's why you have to do the ground work before forcing changes on people otherwise they don't feel consulted.

Fighting racism takes everyone not just ivory tower elite progressives deciding respectful listening means listening to consultants over their own club members.

Pretty easy response is "because certain people have never been listened to"

 

[DaicosDisciple35]

Not trying to win against casual racism. The club has a past problem with institutional racism, they're trying to give indigenous people a look in. It's not much, but it's a start.


You can't run a footy club out of a pub.

If you want an indigenous local name, ask an indigenous local.

If the club reckons its a hood idea, I'll go along with it.



Who in the current club is an ivory tower elite? Was Eddie an ivory tower elite? Bucks? Fly? Bobby Hill?

Eddie thought we should Do Better. I agree.

“Not trying to win against casual racism”

Then what’s the point? dealing with issues like racism requires pragmatic solutions that require interacting with reality. If you don’t want to try and reduce or solve racism then I’d refer back to my original point around grandstanding.

If Collingwood can help combat racism we absolutely should. Crazy to think that Collingwoods actions during Sir Doug Nicholls round shouldn’t be aimed at that considering how many aboriginal people and players have spoken about how much it affects them.

 

[gouki88]

You can’t run a footy club out of a pub when Collingwood was literally founded in one shows that I’m not talking to someone serious about the clubs history or its duties to include its members in decision making and consultation.

Is the club similar to how it was in 1892? Curious to see what other elements of the 19th century you think we should return to, particularly given this topic.

 

[DaicosDisciple35]

Pretty easy response is "because certain people have never been listened to"

That’s ignoring the reality of people’s lives. Australians do not like special privileges for people full stop and the voice was a resounding example of that. Like it or not, people want to be treated like equals and if you want change you need to convince the masses. Thats not going to have an “easy response” you need engagement and consultation with big parts of Australia to get change and that’s a reality advocated for aborignal Australians must get their head around. Myself included.

 

[DaicosDisciple35]

Is the club similar to how it was in 1892? Curious to see what other elements of the 19th century you think we should return to, particularly given this topic.

Just a bad faith response from you refusing to engage in my broader points around grandstanding not meeting the needs and expectations of members and that you need buy in from everyone to see change. The pub test matters and you won’t see any change on racism in Australia if people don’t feel like they are consulted or a part of that change.

 

[gouki88]

That’s ignoring the reality of people’s lives. Australians do not like special privileges for people full stop and the voice was a resounding example of that. Like it or not, people want to be treated like equals and if you want change you need to convince the masses. Thats not going to have an “easy response” you need engagement and consultation with big parts of Australia to get change and that’s a reality advocated for aborignal Australians must get their head around. Myself included.

You're very insistent on this point that social progress is only made through the implicit or explicit approval of the masses. This has never been the case. It wasn't the case with suffrage, civil rights, union movements, decolonisation, apartheid and so on.

Trying to kowtow to the group who has benefited from and lived with the status quo seems rather pointless.

 

[gouki88]

Just a bad faith response from you refusing to engage in my broader points around grandstanding not meeting the needs and expectations of members and that you need buy in from everyone to see change. The pub test matters and you won’t see any change on racism in Australia if people don’t feel like they are consulted or a part of that change.

Frankly, I think this is bullshit. Civil rights movement in the US saw plenty of change despite it definitely not passing the (white) pub test

 

[DaicosDisciple35]

Frankly, I think this is bullshit. Civil rights movement in the US saw plenty of change despite it definitely not passing the (white) pub test

The civil rights act was literally passed by a majority white Congress in a majorly white Country because a majority of white people agreed with MLK… you’re on some frankly absurd political perspective that has time and time again shown to be a complete failure at producing results.

You’re linking me Jacobin which is in itself hilarious but the article literally proves my point with the following quote “The civil rights movement faced these steep odds, but kept organizing and protesting — and ultimately changed public opinion and passing landmark civil rights laws, despite the naysayers and the skeptics.”

Their methods were effective at changing public opinion because of how disgusting the actions of their opposition was.

 

[granniewolf]

That’s ignoring the reality of people’s lives. Australians do not like special privileges for people full stop and the voice was a resounding example of that. Like it or not, people want to be treated like equals and if you want change you need to convince the masses.

The voice failed mainly due to scaremongering from Dutton and his party.
I think a lot of people who voted no did it because of the misinformation that was rife, especially in social media.
It's shameful that all politicians didn't get behind it.
This of course is my opinion.

 

[gouki88]

The civil rights act was literally passed by a majority white Congress in a majorly white Country because a majority of white people agreed with MLK… you’re on some frankly absurd political perspective that has time and time again shown to be a complete failure at producing results.

You’re linking me Jacobin which is in itself hilarious but the article literally proves my point with the following quote “The civil rights movement faced these steep odds, but kept organizing and protesting — and ultimately changed public opinion and passing landmark civil rights laws, despite the naysayers and the skeptics.”

Their methods were effective at changing public opinion because of how disgusting the actions of their opposition was.

Lmao. What results has your "perspective" generated in social movements? Please point me to the landmark jumps in welfare that came from convincing the privileged masses that those they've been exploiting deserve the same privileges through gentle consultation?

Did the article cite all the polite consultation the civil rights movement did? Gathering round in the pub? It dragged them kicking and screaming, be serious - hence why it is still an institutionally racist country.

 

[DaicosDisciple35]

Lmao. What results has your "perspective" generated in social movements? Please point me to the landmark jumps in welfare that came from convincing the privileged masses that those they've been exploiting deserve the same privileges through gentle consultation?

Did the article cite all the polite consultation the civil rights movement did? Gathering round in the pub? It dragged them kicking and screaming, be serious - hence why it is still an institutionally racist country.

You don’t think public opinion matters or that getting community buy in is important for social change. Ask how the greens are doing with their weekly protests for Palestine, gee that’s done heaps right?

You care more about grandstanding than progress and thus you don’t worry me as I am interested in results and I’ll let you do whatever it is you want that’s clearly more about idealism than incrementalism.

 

[DaicosDisciple35]

The voice failed mainly due to scaremongering from Dutton and his party.
I think a lot of people who voted no did it because of the misinformation that was rife, especially in social media.
It's shameful that all politicians didn't get behind it.
This of course is my opinion.

You can blame misinformation but it’s a cop out. The campaign was terrible and people didn’t know anything about it so it was easy to tell them that there’s no details because average people weren’t part of the process.

If misinformation and Peter Dutton scaremongering was so successful then why the hell did his party just get completely destroyed at an election?