Outside game?

[MRB37]

Ground ball stats were pretty even. The damning stat was turnovers.

This thing about being worked out - we never looked to play aggressively. the players rarely attempted to stretch Collingwood or make the ground big. Collingwood didnt force us to play that way, we did it voluntarily.

And yet we allowed Collingwood to play their style - you'd think we would have them "worked out" by now...

Pies scored 10.7.67 from turnover, 0.4 from stoppages and 1.1 from kick-ins.

We scored 7.1.43 from turnovers, so basically went 17 to 8 on scoring shots from turnovers.

 

[Crow_Magnon]

Our wingmen aren't finding much of the ball. Our half back flankers aren't providing much drive. Our half forwards Keays and ANB aren't getting involved lately.

Why?

Have we become an inside mids + tall forwards team?

Since the "reset" we've seemingly taken fewer risks with the ball, worried about turnovers. Fewer attacking options, fewer handball chains through traffic. Is this impacting our outside guys?

Are we trying to become a grunt team?

Really good analysis. Definitely seemed to be the case on the weekend - we've lost any 'dare' to our game. TBF the conditions probably meant that there was more risk to that game style on saturday, but there were opportunities to change it up a few times that I'd seen from my viewpoint down the ground (Punt rd end) that we ignored that didn't appear to be overly risky at the time (Laird the protagonist on two occasions). We need to bring the faster ball movement and run and carry back to our game as this is our main weapon as you rightly point out.

Would definitely like to see Cumming used more effectively, as he's a great deliverer of the ball. Half-back would be better and move Milera up to wing, or even Hinge depending on the opponent. Personally I'd drop Laird, but maybe I'm being too harsh, as he does get a lot of the ball. Not sure if the lack of risk taking / slower ball movement is the cause of Keays and ANB going missing, but they have been MIA over the past few games (rest ANB possibly?).

 

[Crow_Magnon]

GBG were 96 to 88 Collingwood's way, but I reckon that we were way behind until the last quarter when Berry came on (he had 5, 6th best for us).

Post Clearance GBG we were 60 to the Pies 70 and that's where guys like Josh Daicos, Jack Crisp, Quaynor and Perryman hit us and we basically had Rankine and Laird in return.

Handball receives were also heavily weighted to Collingwood too, Daicos bros had 14 each, then Pendles and Maynard on 12 each before we get to Dawson on 11. I'd question how good the tag on Nick Daicos was if he can lead the game in handball receives (and clearances).

The handballs were interesting. At one point during the game the stats showed 82 HB to Collingwood to our 41! So even though it was slippery, they were prepared to move it by hand (at least early on) and we weren't.

 

[Moonwatcher]

The handballs were interesting. At one point during the game the stats showed 82 HB to Collingwood to our 41! So even though it was slippery, they were prepared to move it by hand (at least early on) and we weren't.

Collingwood's game plan provides options to handball to where as our game plan gives the player with the ball no options.

 

[Ham]

I also wonder if we want to prolong Tex’s career, the early quicker ball movement made it all about his forward craft and he looked good. Whereas resting him now wont make a difference.

 

[TBM]

Really good analysis. Definitely seemed to be the case on the weekend - we've lost any 'dare' to our game. TBF the conditions probably meant that there was more risk to that game style on saturday, but there were opportunities to change it up a few times that I'd seen from my viewpoint down the ground (Punt rd end) that we ignored that didn't appear to be overly risky at the time (Laird the protagonist on two occasions). We need to bring the faster ball movement and run and carry back to our game as this is our main weapon as you rightly point out.

Would definitely like to see Cumming used more effectively, as he's a great deliverer of the ball. Half-back would be better and move Milera up to wing, or even Hinge depending on the opponent. Personally I'd drop Laird, but maybe I'm being too harsh, as he does get a lot of the ball. Not sure if the lack of risk taking / slower ball movement is the cause of Keays and ANB going missing, but they have been MIA over the past few games (rest ANB possibly?).

I'd drop Laird too. Provides no drive and is just a loopy kick down the line every time, with a lack of defensive pressure.

 

[TBM]

It's a dashing half-backs game but who is ours?

We have great interceptors in Max and Worrell, no question. But our drive off half-back is severely lacking... we don't have that pacey, effective metres-gained type who cuts the lines and takes the game on. I'm talking your NWM / Rozee / Lachie Ash / Bailey Dale

31

Bailey Dale

Age

29

Ht

188cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.2

3star

K

7.6

3star

HB

5.6

4star

M

3.1

3star

T

1.6

4star

MG

117.4

2star

D

9.0

2star

K

5.1

2star

HB

3.9

3star

M

2.3

2star

T

1.7

3star

MG

117.4

2star

D

8.0

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

3.0

3star

M

1.4

2star

T

2.0

4star

types. Who ironically carve up against us every time because we lack a forward that can clamp them.

Hinge has a go but isn't consistent enough IMO, Laird is a hit-and-hope and Milera just isn't it. Oscar Ryan or Charlie Edwards could be in time, but need an opportunity in the side first.

I think it could be Cumming but he's playing too high up the ground. Our gameplan hasn't evolved to accommodate this shift and it'll see us found out.

 

[George CantStandYa]

Nicks hates an open, attacking game style and does everything he can to prevent it if he can. If we score goals from inside/defence then great (see Carlton game) but his ideal game was the GWS win.

However this is why we get bogged down against better sides, fall into habits and fall behind, and then the players "open it up" (play on instinct) when it's too late.

Ultimately I don't think he trusts the players.

Numinous you laughed at this and like any suck post. Are you not capable of a post of your own?

 

[Golumless]

Our wingmen aren't finding much of the ball. Our half back flankers aren't providing much drive. Our half forwards Keays and ANB aren't getting involved lately.

Why?

Have we become an inside mids + tall forwards team?

Since the "reset" we've seemingly taken fewer risks with the ball, worried about turnovers. Fewer attacking options, fewer handball chains through traffic. Is this impacting our outside guys?

Are we trying to become a grunt team?

CD mentioned something along this line, where we've gone from the 2nd best offensive profile/bottom 6 defense to bottom 6 offense profile/3rd best defensive profile in this stretch. If you're going to have this problem, round 10 and you're 6-4 is as good a time as any. Just seems like it needs a tweak or two to kick it into gear.

Good thing we have Murray, seeing Brisbane had similar issues at this point in the season last year that they just went a bit too defensive and switched it in the back end.

 

[Danger in Texas]

It's a dashing half-backs game but who is ours?

We have great interceptors in Max and Worrell, no question. But our drive off half-back is severely lacking... we don't have that pacey, effective metres-gained type who cuts the lines and takes the game on. I'm talking your NWM / Rozee / Lachie Ash / Bailey Dale types. Who ironically carve up against us every time because we lack a forward that can clamp them.

Hinge has a go but isn't consistent enough IMO, Laird is a hit-and-hope and Milera just isn't it. Oscar Ryan or Charlie Edwards could be in time, but need an opportunity in the side first.

I think it could be Cumming but he's playing too high up the ground. Our gameplan hasn't evolved to accommodate this shift and it'll see us found out.

Yeah we need a Dale/Ash/NWM badly, in Milera’s role. Someone who can just purely focus on offensive drive, really accumulating and not needing to worry about defending too much

Edwards probably the one on our list with the most promise to fill that role (other than Cumming)

 

[imagifED]

Watch at 16:00

 

[Geoffa32]

Nicks hates an open, attacking game style and does everything he can to prevent it if he can. If we score goals from inside/defence then great (see Carlton game) but his ideal game was the GWS win.

However this is why we get bogged down against better sides, fall into habits and fall behind, and then the players "open it up" (play on instinct) when it's too late.

Ultimately I don't think he trusts the players.

Or lacks confidence in his ability to let the players be more creative.

Like a leader at work who micromanages staff because deep down they are not confident enough to empower staff.


Not always a trust issue. Often lack of confidence and feels to be a "leader" you need to control everything.



After 6 seasons these issues still prevalent. Tells me he will never be a Premiership coach.

 

[Brasher]

Thats been a strength of ours this year too, they took that away and we couldnt work out another way.

Last quarter that changed, but we couldnt capitalise

Question is who changed their style in the last? Pies or us? If us we just threw away another 4 points.

Didn't like the emphasis on little mistakes in the post game pressers. Game style looks like it had more to do with it.

 

[Geoffa32]

Yeah we need a Dale/Ash/NWM badly, in Milera’s role. Someone who can just purely focus on offensive drive, really accumulating and not needing to worry about defending too much

Edwards probably the one on our list with the most promise to fill that role (other than Cumming)

Isn't that Laird's role?

I reckon an issue we have at HB is a lack of defensive pressure.

Bond could be a good addition to our backline in Mileras place.

 

[Geoffa32]

Question is who changed their style in the last? Pies or us? If us we just threw away another 4 points.

Didn't like the emphasis on little mistakes in the post game pressers. Game style looks like it had more to do with it.

On field leadership us v them is a big difference late in games.


This is where ANB disappointed me. I thought a big reason we got him was the "big game at the G" experience.


Compare our on field leaders to theirs....

 

[Brasher]

On field leadership us v them is a big difference late in games.


This is where ANB disappointed me. I thought a big reason we got him was the "big game at the G" experience.


Compare our on field leaders to theirs....

There was a game under Craig where we beat Collingwood and Craig post game applauded the field leaders for changing up the pace of the game. Essentially, Pies were coming and the Crows went into this slow down chipping the ball around resulting in a shot on goal

It took the wind out of the Pies but the call to play that way came from on field. To be fair, that team wasn't short of leaders.

 

[Danger in Texas]

Isn't that Laird's role?

I reckon an issue we have at HB is a lack of defensive pressure.

Bond could be a good addition to our backline in Mileras place.

Laird provides nowhere near the drive of a Dale or an Ash. Both of the latter are top 15 in metres gained - Laird is 184th

 

[Cromulant]

On field leadership us v them is a big difference late in games.


This is where ANB disappointed me. I thought a big reason we got him was the "big game at the G" experience.


Compare our on field leaders to theirs....

Would've been nice for us to inject him into the middle tor a bit TBH

 

[Geoffa32]

Laird provides nowhere near the drive of a Dale or an Ash. Both of the latter are top 15 in metres gained - Laird is 184th

And that is an issue.

No defensive pressure and no drive from either HB....


The best person for that offensive HB role is probably Dawson. Can defend and and has offensive weapons.
Maybe Edwards worth a try too.

And then add Bond as a stopper.



We are using our HB line as a retirement home for Laird and nursing Milera into some hope he might live up to his potential. And that ship has sailed....

 

[George CantStandYa]

On field leadership us v them is a big difference late in games.


This is where ANB disappointed me. I thought a big reason we got him was the "big game at the G" experience.


Compare our on field leaders to theirs....

Our leaders have let us down in big games, dating back to 2005/06 and if not earlier.

Our leaders shat the bed in that “right in front of me” loss to Collingwood.

 

[Danger in Texas]

And that is an issue.

No defensive pressure and no drive from either HB....


The best person for that offensive HB role is probably Dawson. Can defend and and has offensive weapons.
Maybe Edwards worth a try too.

And then add Bond as a stopper.



We are using our HB line as a retirement home for Laird and nursing Milera into some hope he might live up to his potential. And that ship has sailed....

I haven’t minded Laird there this year, his ability to accumulate and cleanly pick up ground balls + overlap has been important, but we need someone more dynamic than Milera to pair with him and Hinge

I think Bond is a situational player rather than a pure best 22 guy. He provides basically zero offense (at least Brown provided a bit), so you bring him in if you need multiple shutdown jobs to be done. Send Hinge or the Milera replacement (I like Edwards eventually there) to the wing for those games. Bond should definitely be on the list going forward, though

 

[Cromulant]

And that is an issue.

No defensive pressure and no drive from either HB....


The best person for that offensive HB role is probably Dawson. Can defend and and has offensive weapons.
Maybe Edwards worth a try too.

And then add Bond as a stopper.



We are using our HB line as a retirement home for Laird and nursing Milera into some hope he might live up to his potential. And that ship has sailed....

Isaac Cumming is the man, throw Bond in there too

 

[kirky]

Watch at 16:00

That is an indictment on the coaches.

Never going anywhere if we see defence as the be all end all.

 

[kirky]

I haven’t minded Laird there this year, his ability to accumulate and cleanly pick up ground balls + overlap has been important, but we need someone more dynamic than Milera to pair with him and Hinge

I think Bond is a situational player rather than a pure best 22 guy. He provides basically zero offense (at least Brown provided a bit), so you bring him in if you need multiple shutdown jobs to be done. Send Hinge or the Milera replacement (I like Edwards eventually there) to the wing for those games. Bond should definitely be on the list going forward, though

You can’t have both Laird and Milera in the backline - neither are offensive weapons and don’t get me started on Laird’s disposal.

 

[Danger in Texas]

You can’t have both Laird and Milera in the backline - neither are offensive weapons and don’t get me started on Laird’s disposal.

Milera can be, but he’s way, way too inconsistent in being that guy. When you’re paired with Laird and aren’t tasked to defend, you need to be a lot more consistently damaging

Laird’s disposal has improved this year (as it should have, in such a role) but yes, definitely still prone to the moon boot kick