List Mgmt. 2025 List Management discussion

[SainterinSydney]

Since Fiora, Dean Polo, and Brett Peake. Absolute guns, prove me wrong

Peakey wasn't too bad for us.

 

[Mowman]

correct

people on here were chest beating about responsible salary cap management when talking about 950k for battle vs 800k.

now we are talking insane cash for TDK plus needing to find a battle replacement. by all accounts we are about to offer 800-900k for aleer.

like we had said 950k is nothing in todays salary cap world and it will only get smaller as a % of cap with inflation.

the aim is and always will be to hang onto your best players. we didnt do it with battle. now theres talk we wont with marshall. i'd be worried if we dont get it done with NAS.

people keep forgetting you lose players when you spend too long out of finals. good luck with player retention.

The hype with Aleer is just fascinating LOL

 

[Mowman]

This last 5 pages has been an hilarious read.
We have holes everywhere, Marshall isn't as great as everyone reckons, we need to spend our SC and not on spuds like Billings and Dunstan, without Howard who isn't great as it is we are shocking down back, but people don't want Aleer, we need more mids but no to Bergman.

FMD we have no FS, we can't touch the fake northern clubs NGA's, we never get any blockbuster games so no profile or decent high paying sponsors ( Notice the bottom eight teams Richmond and Essendon get to pretend they are the only ones with indigenous players again and every ****ing year) we have a truckload of SC but people are flipping out by spending it.
Seems like you lot are happy being mediocre bottom eight for ever, complaining when we get beaten by West Coast year in year out.
You people have lost it.

Not that people don't won't Aleer its the stupid money being suggested for someone who cant crack it into the seniors. The same people didnt won't to spend that money on a bloke that in his last 3 years had 2 top 10 finishes and a 3rd in our B&F.

Aleer most likely will never achieve that, watch his form in the VFL it really is nothing special.

Marshal might not be great but he is pretty good and we don't have that many good players

Mediocre would be using a 1st on Bergman who is a GOP

 

[Joffaboy]

The hype with Aleer is just fascinating LOL

Wr have holes everywhere and he may fill one.
Would rather have kept Battle but that ship has sailed.
Without Howard and Battle we are a rabble, McLennon is not up to it, Irish is no key back, Hammer is ok but stop gap.

We have to pay millions over to even have a chance of getting a FA, we can't even retain our key backmen, how do we attract a Wietering type ( who knocked us back)? Aleer is not the panacea but he may give at least a chop out.

 

[Klaatu]

This excludes the most important point

Does Bergman improve St Kilda enough to justify giving up what’s seemingly going to be pick 6-9 in the open pool this year

No chance

I’m a big fan of Bergman as a player but I’d only want him for a late first

I would say he improves our side & is worth pick 6 in a compromised draft & thats according to Twomey.

Bergman was a 1st round pick himself & PA have done all the ground work game wise with him no waitng 2-3 years for a return as you would with most pick 6's.

 

[Mowman]

How do we fix those ones in the past?

Learn from your past so you don't keep making the same mistakes

 

[The Cobra]

This last 5 pages has been an hilarious read.
We have holes everywhere, Marshall isn't as great as everyone reckons, we need to spend our SC and not on spuds like Billings and Dunstan, without Howard who isn't great as it is we are shocking down back, but people don't want Aleer, we need more mids but no to Bergman.

FMD we have no FS, we can't touch the fake northern clubs NGA's, we never get any blockbuster games so no profile or decent high paying sponsors ( Notice the bottom eight teams Richmond and Essendon get to pretend they are the only ones with indigenous players again and every ****ing year) we have a truckload of SC but people are flipping out by spending it.
Seems like you lot are happy being mediocre bottom eight for ever, complaining when we get beaten by West Coast year in year out.
You people have lost it.

Couldn’t agree more re holes in our list.

One monster key back - Howard - who is nothing special but without him there is a gaping hole. Nobody who is big enough &/or ready on our list.

Battle a big loss - hopefully The Viking in time but no certainty

Midfield - blah - one paced plodders (apologies to Macrae)! Nothing dynamic that can turn a game.

One power forward - King cant get on the park

Marshall - excellent ruckman - if he goes down there is nothing that can remotely replace him as either unproven (Boyd), not good enough (Heath) or a very early WIP (Dodson).

I’m sure there is a lot more if you want to spend more than 60 seconds.

 

[Klaatu]

Saints supporters = over rating our own & under rating opposition players.

Bergman better then = Byrnes,Windhager,Collard,Garcia need i go on he has a spot in our side all this talk is more on value if he was for free supporters would rate him highly & take in a blink.

 

[The Punter]

Learn from your past so you don't keep making the same mistakes

OK...

Identify Talent and draft :
2009: Nathan Fyfe ( Lovett Trade )
2010: Luke Parker ( Jamie Cripps)
2013: Bont ( Billings )
2014: Petracca or Brayshaw ( McCartin ).
2016: Simpkin ( Clark and Long ).
2018: Bailey Smith ( King ).
2019: Serong ( Hill ).

Fyfe - a potential flight risk (and we traded the pick for a bloke who never played, that was the mistake as literally anyone would have been better than Lovett
Parker - sydney/geelong development caveat (never compare your draft to Sydney or Geelong because they could literally draft anyone and turn them into a great player
Bont - Billings was consensus pick 3
Trac/Brayshaw - a mistake but a considered one.
Simpkin - we rolled the dice on a pick swap that looked very advantageous for most of 2017. Also is Clark v Simpkin that cut and dried?
Smith - would he have left us like the Doggies?
Serong - haven't traded a first rounder since we got serious - lesson already learnt

 

[Mowman]

Wr have holes everywhere and he may fill one.
Would rather have kept Battle but that ship has sailed.
Without Howard and Battle we are a rabble, McLennon is not up to it, Irish is no key back, Hammer is ok but stop gap.

We have to pay millions over to even have a chance of getting a FA, we can't even retain our key backmen, how do we attract a Wietering type ( who knocked us back)? Aleer is not the panacea but he may give at least a chop out.

We made the holes in our list, no one else did it
years of dumb drafting & list management no one else's fault but ours and the new people in charge havent started that well either. don't lose a very important player and have no one to replace him. And you're right Battle is gone but its the same clowns still running the circus that let it happen

 

[Sully111]

Learn from your past so you don't keep making the same mistakes

Yep

Throw big money at guns. GUNS.

Try and keep your better players.

Then get the absolute best out of your list. Have foresight and see how to best use players. Don't throw them into a position for a week or half a game and then say oh that didn't instantly work so we'll try something different. Have a plan and have the balls to stick to it.

Our club has a loser mentality.

 

[Mowman]

OK...

Fyfe - a potential flight risk (and we traded the pick for a bloke who never played, that was the mistake as literally anyone would have been better than Lovett
Parker - sydney/geelong development caveat (never compare your draft to Sydney or Geelong because they could literally draft anyone and turn them into a great player
Bont - Billings was consensus pick 3
Trac/Brayshaw - a mistake but a considered one.
Simpkin - we rolled the dice on a pick swap that looked very advantageous for most of 2017. Also is Clark v Simpkin that cut and dried?
Smith - would he have left us like the Doggies?
Serong - haven't traded a first rounder since we got serious - lesson already learnt

Fyfe - Lets not draft anyone from interstate ? He might of stayed and won us a flag you're guessing

Parker- Sydney /Geelong Here is an idea get to those levels

Bont - Billings a mistake

Trac over McCrartin was just dumb. nothing considered about that

Smith - You don't know that you're guessing

Serong was a dumb mistake trading our 1st rounder out

 

[MordySaint]

That would be a great system for a farming commune.

For our footy club, it would mean our below average team was maxed out on the cap.
Because its one of the younger team lists, it would mean we'd remained maxed out for years.
But we could tell the supporters of other clubs we are happy because its fair that Byrnes earns the same money as what we used to pay Nas. ( before he cracked the shits and left ).

Not really that simple, performance based contracts (not based on B&F results as previously done)

You perform against a scale as determined by the club (unique to your position). Your wage gets set on that, you play well you get rewarded. You don't play well you sit on your base contract.

This builds performance and accountability into your football career.

Anything else you are just paying wages.

 

[Joffaboy]

The loss against WC has convinced me that it was as bad as the LNP loss a couple of weeks ago.
It has been coming for years and due to circumstances, first poor drafting , then AFL rule to put the thumb on the scale for selected clubs, noe Tassie coming.

If we don't change course now we are no hope for another decade.
Midfield is one paced. It's an indictment that we need to put Jones in for a bit of spark. Clark.is slow, and Dow and Carroll have been useless. so we don't know about them.
Wilson is a bit timid, Travaglia finding his way, Steele is half the player he was and Windy. Garcia and Boxshall are young.

Forwards are ordinary except Higgins, Hammer and Titanic drift in and out of games, Owens can't kick for shit. We might get straightened up by King but injury prone.
Backs are pretty useless save Wilkie. Jimmy is past it, we can't replace Battle, McLennon and O'Connell aren't the answer and Arie looks like a bust. Tauru is an unknown and looks likely but we need more than that.
Rucks are solid without being exceptional. Roh is good, Boyd a backup, Moose seems a bust, and Dodson while promising is 19, won't be ready for years.

I don't care about the cost, we have the SC. Land TDK, Bergman ( or another mid) and Aleer. Retain NAZ and load up in 26 to go again.

 

[The Punter]

Fyfe - Lets not draft anyone from interstate ? He might of stayed and won us a flag you're guessing

Parker- Sydney /Geelong Here is an idea get to those levels

Bont - Billings a mistake

Trac over McCrartin was just dumb. nothing considered about that

Smith - You don't know that you're guessing

Serong was a dumb mistake trading our 1st rounder out

As I said, anyone would have been better than Lovett.

I've been going on about development for years. The Cats in particular never draft high and don't seem to have an issue with developing their own draftees.

Lots of things are mistakes in hindsight.

McCartin was drafted because Rooey was retiring and the club had seen what the Doggies had paid for Boyd. It was a risk related to the situation and it didn't work.

Apart from Smith leaving, good egg isn't he?

As I have also said, the issue with the Hill trade is we didn't get what we thought we were getting. He was under contract so the deal was going to have to be significant.

 

[The Punter]

Joffaboy - Arie was pick 62. How well does a pick 62 need to be to avoid being a bust?

I'm not his biggest fan but its a speculative pick at the best of times.

 

[Joffaboy]

Joffaboy - Arie was pick 62. How well does a pick 62 need to be to avoid being a bust?

I'm not his biggest fan but its a speculative pick at the best of times.

It was in context of our backline, Realise where he was selected.
I'll give you four that weren't even drafted
Sinclair
Wilkie
Marshall
Sharman
Shoenmaker was slated to go higher in the draft but had discipline problems. His disposal not the issue. His ability to football is.

 

[Yawkey way]

We made the holes in our list, no one else did it
years of dumb drafting & list management no one else's fault but ours and the new people in charge havent started that well either. don't lose a very important player and have no one to replace him. And you're right Battle is gone but its the same clowns still running the circus that let it happen

We also buy high and sell low, the contracted Josh Bruce trade was a joke.

 

[PJays]

NFI. If there aren't any viable targets then get our young guns on heavily front loaded long term contracts. Give Pou 4 mil over 5 years, with 1.5 next year so he's at 625k for the remaining 4 years. Do similar with Nas, but obviously at higher pay. No point in getting locked into an outrageous 7 year contract for a player we don't need

The advantage of this approach is in 3-4 years time we could have prime Nas and prime Phillipou playing for less than they're worth, leaving cap room to chase whatever players are available at the time.

Instead of massively overpaying a ruckman. When we already have a star who does his best work as #1 ruck.

It's a no-brainer to me that massively overpaying anyone is a bad idea. Unless there's some seriously special circumstances. Which there aren't here.

Baffled by the number of people in this thread who seem supportive.

 

[PJays]

Seems like you lot are happy being mediocre bottom eight for ever, complaining when we get beaten by West Coast year in year out.
You people have lost it.

Name me the teams who signed big name free agents then won a flag.

There's Richmond with Lynch. And Geelong with Cameron and Dangerfield

But I doubt they were paying overs like St Kilda's thinking.

 

[stavro#4]

The advantage of this approach is in 3-4 years time we could have prime Nas and prime Phillipou playing for less than they're worth, leaving cap room to chase whatever players are available at the time.

Instead of massively overpaying a ruckman. When we already have a star who does his best work as #1 ruck.

It's a no-brainer to me that massively overpaying anyone is a bad idea. Unless there's some seriously special circumstances. Which there aren't here.

Baffled by the number of people in this thread who seem supportive.

If you are worried about our cap space in 4 years time then it means signing TDK has been a success.

Otherwise if we are still shit, we aren’t paying anyone superstar money to get us in trouble

 

[StCicatriz]

Learn from your past so you don't keep making the same mistakes

the battle one is starting to look super similar to the Goddard situation albeit we didnt trade the pick away this time! although the player selections are eerily similar.

looks like we are about to go down the same ruck merry go round that we did with McEvoy/Hickey/Longer.

 

[Klaatu]

Name me the teams who signed big name free agents then won a flag.

There's Richmond with Lynch. And Geelong with Cameron and Dangerfield

But I doubt they were paying overs like St Kilda's thinking.

Both those sides were successful when they joined them, that was the attraction to getting them.

 

[Ads734]

Saints supporters = over rating our own & under rating opposition players.

Bergman better then = Byrnes,Windhager,Collard,Garcia need i go on he has a spot in our side all this talk is more on value if he was for free supporters would rate him highly & take in a blink.

I don’t think yould find one saints supporter who would say Bergman isn’t better then those guys.

Bergman is also 23 where as collard and Garcia are 19. Weird comparison.

 

[StCicatriz]

Name me the teams who signed big name free agents then won a flag.

There's Richmond with Lynch. And Geelong with Cameron and Dangerfield

But I doubt they were paying overs like St Kilda's thinking.

you do get the different between those clubs and us, is they had won a flag! they threw that lure of a premiership along with some other stuff to them and got em over the line.

Lynch's sister was employed in the footy dept the year before. Dangerfield has had some interesting rumours surround him same as Cameron, especially given the Clayton Oliver lure.