Closing out games

[George CantStandYa]

We’ve had a very poor record in close games, we’ve had 2 recent wins against Port and Lions.

In both games after hitting the lead we’ve tried to close it down and create contests.

In both games we’ve been badly beaten in clearances and contests. So in what universe is it a sound strategy to play to the opposition strengths and concede repeat inside 50s, desperately trying to hang on? Both games we’ve won due to the opposition blowing their chances.

Our defenders have no one open to kick to, to move the ball up forward, you know away from the oppositions goal and closer to ours.

How did we get these leads?
What’s our strengths?

So why the **** do we do it?

Nicks even said we were lucky, well Mafhew why is this your tactic to close out games? Why not kick more goals and not rely on opposition inaccuracy to win?

Can someone please explain the rationale beyond “we won”. What are you going to say when it doesn’t? You confident of this strategy in a final?

 

[1970crow]

We’ve had a very poor record in close games, we’ve had 2 recent wins against Port and Lions.

In both games after hitting the lead we’ve tried to close it down and create contests.

In both games we’ve been badly beaten in clearances and contests. So in what universe is it a sound strategy to play to the opposition strengths and concede repeat inside 50s, desperately trying to hang on? Both games we’ve won due to the opposition blowing their chances.

Our defenders have no one open to kick to, to move the ball up forward, you know away from the oppositions goal and closer to ours.

How did we get these leads?
What’s our strengths?

So why the **** do we do it?

Nicks even said we were lucky, well Mafhew why is this your tactic to close out games? Why not kick more goals and not rely on opposition inaccuracy to win?

Can someone please explain the rationale beyond “we won”. What are you going to say when it doesn’t? You confident of this strategy in a final?

Sloane was saying we go too early and should be attacking for longer this morning on Sunday footy show. It does seem a bit stupid to turn the game into more of what we’ve been getting beaten at throughout the match.

 

[George CantStandYa]

Sloane was saying we go too early and should be attacking for longer this morning on Sunday footy show. It does seem a bit stupid to turn the game into more of what we’ve been getting beaten at throughout the match.

I don’t believe I’ve heard one footy guru support our decision to go so defensive so early.

 

[1990crow]

Yeah, it's dumb coaching.

 

[Scorpus]

We are committing numbers inside defensive 50 to repel attacks but that's leaving us outnumbered outside the 50.

It hasn't hurt us too badly because having those numbers inside 50 has been successful defensively (to some degree)

Think all it needs is a small numbers tweak so we aren't as badly outnumbered at the fall of marking contests outside 50

 

[George CantStandYa]

We are committing numbers inside defensive 50 to repel attacks but that's leaving us outnumbered outside the 50.

It hasn't hurt us too badly because having those numbers inside 50 has been successful defensively (to some degree)

Think all it needs is a small numbers tweak so we aren't as badly outnumbered at the fall of marking contests outside 50

Firstly it hasn’t hurt us because the opposition has missed sitters.

But it’s more than that. The footage Sloane showed. We just bombed to contests. We didn’t switch, we didn’t look for players. If we mark it they don’t have it, we can move our team forward, we move it away from their forward line and we take time off the clock. Throw in the fact how deadly our forward line is, why are starving it?

 

[njk123]

We’ve had a very poor record in close games, we’ve had 2 recent wins against Port and Lions.

In both games after hitting the lead we’ve tried to close it down and create contests.

In both games we’ve been badly beaten in clearances and contests. So in what universe is it a sound strategy to play to the opposition strengths and concede repeat inside 50s, desperately trying to hang on? Both games we’ve won due to the opposition blowing their chances.

Our defenders have no one open to kick to, to move the ball up forward, you know away from the oppositions goal and closer to ours.

How did we get these leads?
What’s our strengths?

So why the **** do we do it?

Nicks even said we were lucky, well Mafhew why is this your tactic to close out games? Why not kick more goals and not rely on opposition inaccuracy to win?

Can someone please explain the rationale beyond “we won”. What are you going to say when it doesn’t? You confident of this strategy in a final?

Don’t hate the strategy but not confident in it yet. Obviously too small a sample size to make any real assessments.

That said I think the two games are very different … we were well on top of port in general game play and should not have gone as defensive. Almost cost us the game.

Brisbane were on top of us all night and we banged out 5 goals earlyish in the last quarter from nowhere. That wasn’t sustainable so slowing the game down was the right decision. Not perfect but helped us win against a proper team.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

We don't seem to be able to generate 20m sideways or even backwards kicks. So aren't able to control the ball and take any time off the clock.

Long kicks to a pack we aren't even able to halve a contest, regularly getting outmarked so a repeat I50 conceded.

The marking contests we do halve, we instantly lose the ground ball and it gets swept forward again.

The opposition can park every one of their players on the member's wing knowing that there's a 100% chance we'll kick it there.

We've been very lucky to cling on in those two games. Hopefully we're revamping all facets of our ice the game drill but last night's exact replica of the Showdown doesn't inspire a lot of confidence

 

[imagifED]

Depends on the DNA of our list. If we had the discipline and dourness of say 2012 Sydney, then I would be maybe content with shutting the game down. But I am a big believer of fortune favours the brave. Grand final day, 3 points up, 3 minutes to go. I would want us to attack to stretch the lead out to 9 points and create another memory. We have the quality to finish opposition out the back when they push up searching for a goal.

 

[George CantStandYa]

We don't seem to be able to generate 20m sideways or even backwards kicks. So aren't able to control the ball and take any time off the clock.

Long kicks to a pack we aren't even able to halve a contest, regularly getting outmarked so a repeat I50 conceded.

The marking contests we do halve, we instantly lose the ground ball and it gets swept forward again.

The opposition can park every one of their players on the member's wing knowing that there's a 100% chance we'll kick it there.

We've been very lucky to cling on in those two games. Hopefully we're revamping all facets of our ice the game drill but last night's exact replica of the Showdown doesn't inspire a lot of confidence

We don’t try and generate the 20m kick. We create no room as we are trying to clog the ground by bringing everyone up.

 

[Punchy Bassett]

Our points kick out strategy sucks and always has under Nicks

 

[spenze]

We got so worked up by not being able to defend a close lead against a few teams when we could have ( Collingwood game last year I think) we have now gone uber paranoid with it, wanting to close it out with 10 mins to play.

Yes, I get 2 minutes left, one goal up trying to do it but not a long time out, just keep trying to go with the momentum and bang another goal or two. Even when we do though, we need to change it around, run it back through with some 20 metre passes, not always down and long to the right...and even with that, punch it over the line from the kick FFS.

Matfews plan seems to be no real plan at all

 

[Scorpus]

Firstly it hasn’t hurt us because the opposition has missed sitters.

But it’s more than that. The footage Sloane showed. We just bombed to contests. We didn’t switch, we didn’t look for players. If we mark it they don’t have it, we can move our team forward, we move it away from their forward line and we take time off the clock. Throw in the fact how deadly our forward line is, why are starving it?

The strategy is to bomb it to contests on purpose.

Why are those contests so ineffective late in the game compared to other times? Because we haven't committed enough numbers there.

We don't look for free players because our free players are inside 50. The opposition usually has multiple spares outside 50. It's a configuration that won't lead to ball movement

It's a conservative plan but it's too conservative.

Opening the game up offensively by creating extras outside 50 will expose us inside 50 which is why we don't do it at the close. And ideally we want to be conservative when a few goals up and a few minutes left.

It doesn't require major changes. Maybe one player comes up from inside defensive 50 and we deploy the plan a few minutes later

 

[1970crow]

Our points kick out strategy sucks and always has under Nicks

No different under Pyke, except Dmac and co had to kick to themselves to chalk up a cheap stat.

 

[njk123]

Our points kick out strategy sucks and always has under Nicks

I have checked crows scores from kick outs this year and compared to collingwood who are the best team in the comp

Collingwood scores direct from kick outs 5.4
Crows scores direct from kick outs 10.2

Fly must be a complete spud

Edit - checked a couple more port 5.3, Brisbane 7.7

I hope we are working on this diabolical part of our game that we may be the best in the comp at

 

[cleanhands]

Our points kick out strategy sucks and always has under Nicks

Are you talking in general or when we are trying to shut the game down

 

[njk123]

Are you talking in general or when we are trying to shut the game down

The words ‘always has’ indicates in general. I think he is wrong though.

 

[cleanhands]

The words ‘always has’ indicates in general. I think he is wrong though.

querying it because of the thread

 

[njk123]

querying it because of the thread

It’s just made up problems I think. Kick
outs have always been a problem apparently.

Maybe when we sucked but seems to be a strength this year.

 

[njk123]

No different under Pyke, except Dmac and co had to kick to themselves to chalk up a cheap stat.

Stats don’t support that at all

This year we have double the goals from kick outs compared to Collingwood (they are top of the ladder) 10 goals to 5.

Last year we had 18 goals direct from kick outs one more than Brisbane (who won the premiership)

Doesn’t seem like a weak point

 

[kirky]

We got so worked up by not being able to defend a close lead against a few teams when we could have ( Collingwood game last year I think) we have now gone uber paranoid with it, wanting to close it out with 10 mins to play.

Yes, I get 2 minutes left, one goal up trying to do it but not a long time out, just keep trying to go with the momentum and bang another goal or two. Even when we do though, we need to change it around, run it back through with some 20 metre passes, not always down and long to the right...and even with that, punch it over the line from the kick FFS.

Matfews plan seems to be no real plan at all

We don’t always go right - half the time on Friday night we went left.

 

[davos44]

I get the lockdown aspect of it, we all do. But obviously the problem is the timing.

I don't like the empty of feeling of "escaping" a game we were in control of.

It looks awful when we kick it long out of the backline to a pack and get outmarked/the ball gets out the back to an opposition sweeper and pumped back in.

More ball control in that situation would be better, too many hack kicks for deliberate OOB or immediate turnover. I'd rather a handball under pressure to a team mate for a tackle, ball up and reset.


Switching won't work as it exposes us to pressure on the open side of the ground.


I like the fact we have some practice at this for when we need it most though.

This sort of play is really coachable in retrospect, coaches can focus on this lock down play and look at where are going wrong in a win mid June, rather than after a 2 point loss in an elimination final etc.

The Geelong game exposed our heavy attack game style and how it can be thwarted by a great side, Geelong just peeled back and fouled us at half forward. Our reaction to that was heavy handed but we are so much better now as a more balanced side and look stronger.


Also Tom Morris and James Hird said Nicks could be coach of the year, they aren't the type of guys to say or do stupid things.

 

[CrowToon]

We don't take the repeat stoppage in the final minutes to keep burning time.

I can only assume that's because we don't trust our midfield to keep it locked in.

Somehow kicking it straight to the oppo on the wing and taking the next i50 is preferable

 

[1990crow]

I get the lockdown aspect of it, we all do. But obviously the problem is the timing.

I don't like the empty of feeling of "escaping" a game we were in control of.

It looks awful when we kick it long out of the backline to a pack and get outmarked/the ball gets out the back to an opposition sweeper and pumped back in.

More ball control in that situation would be better, too many hack kicks for deliberate OOB or immediate turnover. I'd rather a handball under pressure to a team mate for a tackle, ball up and reset.


Switching won't work as it exposes us to pressure on the open side of the ground.


I like the fact we have some practice at this for when we need it most though.

This sort of play is really coachable in retrospect, coaches can focus on this lock down play and look at where are going wrong in a win mid June, rather than after a 2 point loss in an elimination final etc.

The Geelong game exposed our heavy attack game style and how it can be thwarted by a great side, Geelong just peeled back and fouled us at half forward. Our reaction to that was heavy handed but we are so much better now as a more balanced side and look stronger.


Also Tom Morris and James Hird said Nicks could be coach of the year, they aren't the type of guys to say or do stupid things.

Hird: "Go put unknown drugs into your arm because I want to win more".

Yeh, nah.

 

[kirky]

We don't take the repeat stoppage in the final minutes to keep burning time.

I can only assume that's because we don't trust our midfield to keep it locked in.

Somehow kicking it straight to the oppo on the wing and taking the next i50 is preferable

I’m not sure what people expect given we lost stoppage clearances 30-48 on Friday night - an absolute spanking in anyones language and yet most times we actually outnumbered them in those situations but they got it out.

What we didn’t do was have someone at the back of the pack in case it went over the back. Also Brisbane always made sure they had someone at the back of a pack to enable outlet and then they made sure they had someone to switch the play to on the opposite side of the ground.