Autopsy 2025 Rd 13 Shaky Blues Hold on to Beat Bombers

[Stamos]

The amount of time we keep the ball in when we shouldn't leads me to wonder if it isn't a coaching directive to try and keep the play going.

Because we don’t coach fundamentals

 

[Garters]

I didn't realise - he has only played 89 games (or thereabouts) in 7 years.

Took a long time to get going. Only 22 games in his first 3 seasons. Then pretty consistent 20 odd games there on in. This season pro rata 20 odd as well.

 

[Coops93]

If he takes his proper time and goes back after a mark he's an above average kick.

He generally doesn't give himself the full 30 and is still high in adrenalin. Because of this he's much more prone to fully messing up the kick.

I've always thought he rushes like that because he knows he's not a great set shot, so would rather go quickly before the pressure builds - and also because that's when he kicks best. He's elite at those quick twitch kicks, it's when he has to take time that he isn't great.

Sure he fluffs the odd one, but if he isn't playing on too close to a man or something like that he generally nails them. It's the standard, slow set shot that he's less reliable

 

[SirSanchez]

Ive been a Carlton supporter and member for majority of my life and I can’t remember ever feeling this disinterested about our club and team before.
Last night’s game was hard to watch, but it’s the new normal for Carlton. We’ve been conditioned for disappointment through decades of mediocrity and it’s taking its toll. The love will always be there but the care factor is fading.

 

[AndyLucimitis]

I've always thought he rushes like that because he knows he's not a great set shot, so would rather go quickly before the pressure builds - and also because that's when he kicks best. He's elite at those quick twitch kicks, it's when he has to take time that he isn't great.

Sure he fluffs the odd one, but if he isn't playing on too close to a man or something like that he generally nails them. It's the standard, slow set shot that he's less reliable

Bob Murphy had a theory on this as well as players using the Stevie J around the corner kick.

He said modern players are trained to operate under 'chaos' condition - quick thinking, quick movement, moving in traffic etc. They feel comfortable in this environment because they basically don't have to think -its pure quick twitch muscle memory type stuff.

When they take set shot, it forces them to slow down and have to think it through. By playing on , like Charlie does, or the around the corner kick, it's re-establishing the 'chaos' that their mind and body is programmed for.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Will take it, but outscored 10.3 to 5.8 after quarter time.
Something needs to be done.
We've won 9 out of 12 1st quarters (equal 1st in the league with Pies and Crows). Six 2nd quarters (7th best in the league), 3 x 3rd quarters (2nd worst) and 4 x 4th quarters (equal 14th with North).
If we can address the issues with the 3rd and 4th quarters, we're back for the most part.

 

[AT97]

What??? Nothing replaces our original jumper. Navy Blue and white CFC always

 

[jezzajay]

Went to the game last night, and while there is a lot to work through, it reinforced to me that the #1 problem right now is still the supporters. The atmosphere was appalling and borderline toxic, and this thread more than highlights that.

I honestly think that a lot of Carlton supporters have grown to PREFER things being bad, so they can wallow and vent and that because we have struggled for so long, they are using it as a kind of whole life catharsis.

Step back for a second and separate out all the noise, and...

• we started the game in the bottom 4, having struggled all year.
• we came out of the blocks really well and smoked one of our biggest rivals (who started the game 2 wins and 5 ladder spots above us) for 6 goals to 1 in the first quarter.

You would think the 40,000-odd Carlton supporters would be up on their feet at this point. Nope... barely a smattering of applause for the goals and quarter time passed with only a ripple of excitement.

• Opposition fights back and gets back into the game. Yep, that's what happens.
• At 3/4 time the coaches make changes (McGovern to the backline the big one). We rally, kick two goals and a matchwinning lead. The crowd is... mildly interested. Essendon rally a little but it is too late - their crowd is roaring. Meanwhile we are openly trashing our own, winning players.

Don't believe me? Here is a snippet of (basically) consecutive posts from our game day thread in the last quarter of a match we won against arguably our biggest rival, when the game was on the line":
"Weitering just flipping putrid,"
"Haynes that's two goals you've given them"
"Motlop mate.You could have walked that goal in. And you shit yourself in front of goal"
"If we somehow win this game they will put it in the dictionary under "papering over the cracks"."
"We have too many momentum killers in this group."
"Mots best game this year but more broadly that miss is the symptomatic of the real issue with this team.Not seizing their moments when they must, mentally not good enough."
"2 pathetic efforts from Weitering in 30 seconds"
"Weitering is horrible tonight, burning teammates everywhere"
"how good are essendon at kicking goals. we are so pea hearted in front of the sticks"
"Costly miss by Motlop earlierHas had a good game but Too many poor kicks"
"LUCKY"
"Who said we won't trade Walsh. Re-think your strategy"
"TDK absolutely has had no presence back there. Bloody hell."
"Absolutely weak as piss. How does nobody go up there?"
"Mots you better kick another"
"Tdk is a individual. Do the basics and punch FFS"
"Sing it quietly. This is an embarrassing win against a near VFL side if it happens"

That's the vibe of the club right now. First win in a month, coming off bad form, and all anyone wants to do is trash players rant about how 'mentally weak' the team is.

They rallied, held on and won. Against Essendon on the MCG, in front of 75,000 people. Motlop played his best game for the year and was by far the best small forward on the ground. TDK was clear BOG and dominated the game. Weitering is our most reliable defender and a club leader. Walsh was the leading ball-winner on the ground and will likely get brownlow votes. Yet as we hang on to win, the ONLY posts our supporters are making are bagging them.

The vibe between us and Collingwood supporters (in particular) is SO noticeable. If Collingwood lost a lead, then kicked two goals to start the last quarter their fans would be going beserk and suck the life out of the match for the opposition.

It is just so negative, all the time. Was that our best display of football ever? Nope, not even close. Is it worth celebrating? Absolutely, 100%. Taking some actual perspective on the game:

• We won in difficult conditions against a 6-4 opponent who have been a tough beat all year
• We won despite Cripps looking off (possibly unwell?), McKay missing, and with a bunch of important players returning from injury (who all got through unscathed)
• We kicked the second highest score so far this round (in horrid wet conditions) with Curnow just no-where near his best and a bit of a makeshift lineup around him
• Our defence held up well under pressure, and showed that almost all of them can take intercept marks and defend. That's as critical as anything to getting us going again
• We got good performances from a debutant, a couple of others who debuted this year (Lord played his first full game and Carroll who is going well), and a few young guys who have been under the pump
• The coaches... actually made the changes that turned the game when we were threatened. The players... actually stepped up in the last quarter when the heat was on, rode through he pressure, opened up a match-winning lead and hung on without ever really looking like getting beaten

Our season is alive. We have two very winnable games to come, then a bunch of harder games after that that will decide the season. If we get some momentum we go into those games (against Port away, and Gold Coast home, Collingwood, etc) with some confidence and positivity who knows what happens.

But I honestly think that half the 'supporters' of the club would prefer we lost so they can get their weekly fix of venting and anger out...

I agree with this...and it's been a thing for a while!
It's noticeable when watching on TV the difference in crowds for each game and our home crowds almost seem non-existent, apart from when the teams really up and about and that was last noticed during the finals in 2023.
I get down to a game in Melbourne once a year, and I have been commenting on the lack of crowd spark for about ten years. In comparison to the crowds of the 80's/90's it is sad to see.
I am wondering what the cheer squad is actually doing as they used to play a big part in pumping the crowd up. Apart from waving some flags and the pre game banner...wheres the hype!?
I understand the club plays a part with music and lighting with goals etc...which is all pointless to me.
But I will keep coming back as I simply want to watch the boys run around and have a crack in our famous carlton guernsey!

 

[Benaly28]

Haven't had the luxury of seeing a game live for a while.

So how lazy is Charlie? Who has watched him closely live?

Certainly appeared to be some half-arsed, jogging efforts last night via the squawk box.

It's been a characteristic of his career, so any type of mooted injury can't be used as a mitigating factor.

If the fans see it, his teammates would be even more aware of poor/non-existent second efforts.

And that ain't healthy.

If you watch Charlie live he dosent chase or tackle yes he gets it inside 50 but to be fair should be kicking more goals than he does.Talent can only take you so far.

 

[95blues]

This is why the list is just as much of a problem as the inept coaching...

And we know for a FACT that they've spent an enormous amount of time on late/close game tactics. They just melt.

 

[Stig O'Hara]

The way the season is playing out I think we can lock in George Hewitt, Jack Silvagni and Jacob Weitering for the best and fairest top three. Probably then TDK then daylight after that.

Cerra’s top 4, nudging top 3.

Consistently getting it while taking a ton of hits

Been as hard at the pill as anyone this year.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

What was the average games and age comparison between the sides last night.

I do think people don't realise we are playing pretty 'young' at the moment ?

We had the advantage there. Basically an extra 2 years older and an extra season experience (23 games).
We had 5 players with less than 50 games to their 7.
We had 4 players with less than 20 games and they had 6.
Fairly similar in the low end (although they had I think it was 4 players under 20). It's the 25yo+ where the difference was. We had 16 players and they had 9.

 

[95blues]

If you watch Charlie live he dosent chase or tackle yes he gets it inside 50 but to be fair should be kicking more goals than he does.Talent can only take you so far.

He doesnt chase but last night he was working his tail off to lead up to the wing and then turn back and be an option deep forward. Must have done it 40 times.

 

[btdg]

And we know for a FACT that they've spent an enormous amount of time on late/close game tactics. They just melt.

But they didn't melt? They won. Essendon pressed and the players rallied and then... They turned it on to start the last quarter, and defended effectively enough that it never got within a goal?

Is that not enough? Are our expectations so ridiculous that despite starting the match in the bottom 4, we have not only win but do it a certain way or we all have to self-flagellate afterwards?

 

[The Flying Doormat]

I’ll give him a pass on that miss, considering he nailed a pressure goal earlier, especially after a few teammates had missed their shots. One being a dual Coleman medallist who should be stepping up and showing leadership. I mean Fantasia was a non-event for the game, but I saw him showing more leadership to players by talking to them and encouraging them.

For me, Motlop was the standout of the game. The stats might not show it, but he was doing all the things our senior leaders weren’t whilst playing one of the toughest roles on the ground as a small forward.

Motlop, HOK and JSOS can all hold their head high in my opinion. Cerra and Ollie (last quarter) are small mentions too

I thought Cerra was close to our best

 

[btdg]

I agree with this...and it's been a thing for a while!
It's noticeable when watching on TV the difference in crowds for each game and our home crowds almost seem non-existent, apart from when the teams really up and about and that was last noticed during the finals in 2023.
I get down to a game in Melbourne once a year, and I have been commenting on the lack of crowd spark for about ten years. In comparison to the crowds of the 80's/90's it is sad to see.
I am wondering what the cheer squad is actually doing as they used to play a big part in pumping the crowd up. Apart from waving some flags and the pre game banner...wheres the hype!?
I understand the club plays a part with music and lighting with goals etc...which is all pointless to me.
But I will keep coming back as I simply want to watch the boys run around and have a crack in our famous carlton guernsey!

Yeah, it is hard to say. There is definitely a section of the fan base (anyone under 30) that has only experienced bad teams and just doesn't know what success looks like.
. There is another portion of the fan base that was there in the 80s and 90s and seems to expect that things will just go back to winning every year at some point. That seems to be a particularly toxic combination.

I agree that the match day environment needs some work. things are very backwards looking at times - every week we seem to be trotting out the 1995 premiership team or showing highlights of the 99 prelim pre game. The music is 80s or 90s rock (with some 2001 Eminem beats?). Who is that for? I am in my 40s and it seems naff to me.

Then the game starts and it is kind of quiet. We kick a goal and the entire ground lights up... With ham advertisements. The cheer squad tries, the members in the forward pocket make a bit of noise when the ball is there, but the fans are just... Off.

Maybe the cheer squad and club need a gimmick or two. The 'Collingwood... collingwood' chant was gimmicky at first and now when 80,000 people do it half way through the last quarter of a night game it is spine tingling. oOff topic but there are times at the MCG where the atmosphere gets so 'thick' that you can see players on the ground struggling to execute, and the 'Collingwood' chant generates that a lot. What do we have? Chanting 'Woof' when Adam Saad chips the ball 20m sideways to a team mate?

I dunno. Maybe we all just need to relax and enjoy the moment a little. We probably won't win the flag this year, and that ok. We don't have to burn the place down, we can just got be entertained, cheer and enjoy the wins that come

 

[95blues]

But they didn't melt? They won. Essendon pressed and the players rallied and then... They turned it on to start the last quarter, and defended effectively enough that it never got within a goal?

Is that not enough? Are our expectations so ridiculous that despite starting the match in the bottom 4, we have not only win but do it a certain way or we all have to self-flagellate afterwards?

I was responding to the suggestion that they arent coached on how to handle late game.

They are very thoroughly coached in that area.

And they absolutely do melt. You can still win a close game that is only close due to inability to handle pressure.
Motts, Curnow, the 3v1 50m out that Hayes etc made a mess of... thats a comfortable 30pt win turned into a nailbiter through rubbish execution of basic fundamentals that we KNOW they have been drilled on.

And no, i see a bottom 6 list and have for a long time. Last night was in line with my expectation.

 

[CarmenSandiego]

Again, I’m still yet to see a single person argue otherwise. We did what we needed to do, that was it.

I’m firmly of the belief that we have a large portion of our fanbase that wouldn’t have minded if we lost because it justifies their insecurities and anger towards the club at the moment. The fanbase has a real stink about it currently. And believe me, other fans notice

you think we did what we needed to do?

15th on the ladder with minimal injuries, coming off a break & against a borderline VFL squad and hanging on by 8pts is what we needed to do?

I’ve been very calm this year and pro-Voss but last night was particularly concerning for me.

We needed to do much more if we seriously consider ourselves a top 8 side.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

Will take it, but outscored 10.3 to 5.8 after quarter time.
Something needs to be done.

So 13 scoring shots each?
I'd say start with goal kicking practice

 

[JJBagger]

you think we did what we needed to do?

15th on the ladder with minimal injuries, coming off a break & against a borderline VFL squad and hanging on by 8pts is what we needed to do?

I’ve been very calm this year and pro-Voss but last night was particularly concerning for me.

We needed to do much more if we seriously consider ourselves a top 8 side.

Yes. 99% of the rhetoric coming from the fans was purely “just win”. Now it’s evolved into “just win, but only the way I want”. You can’t expect to win then complain when it’s not done in the manner you like. I was firmly in the “just win” camp. That win doesn’t change any narrative that was around pre-bye

 

[swuzzlebubble]

coming off a break

Usually works against teams these days

 

[Blueballs38]

Sad reality is that yesterday before the last quarter I was actually hoping we would lose. Voss would not have survived that I don’t think.

You have the bye, a two week mini break to try and turn the screws on some obvious mistakes and what happens … THE SAME SHIT

I am so done with this year and with the coaching and recruitment teams, Brad can also eat a dick.

Also a number of players too can GAGF.

Mentally fragile morons some of them.

Love the club that will never change but this lot will never win a premiership… they just don’t have what it takes.

Last night reminded us of that (if we ever needed reminding!)

 

[swuzzlebubble]

So how lazy is Charlie? Who has watched him closely live?

If he did some basics better it would be less of a concern.
Eg. Stop the low percentage shots at goal from 50+
Quick give rather than taking on a defender in 2 on 1 situations.
Not standing so far back from the mark when lining up for a hook snap.

 

[Sector 7G]

So 13 scoring shots each?
I'd say start with goal kicking practice

8 more scores, nine more shots should have been a 24-30 point win.

Ultimately all we needed was a win. We were never behind.

Unfortunately the crowd didn’t get behind the boys because they have burn us all year with disappointing fade-outs. Stood up when it counted in the last quarter despite terrible
Errors leading to coughing up goals

 

[swuzzlebubble]

He generally doesn't give himself the full 30

Certainly didn't when having that shot with 2 minutes left