Autopsy 2025 Rd 13 Shaky Blues Hold on to Beat Bombers

[JustOneTime]

The supporter idiocy, aggression and frustration is simply a symptom of what the club is producing.

There isn't really any room for 'real aggression' if it is being shown at games. There is room for all the rest to send a message.

 

[Gointocarlton]

There was an interview this week where Weitering said Voss constantly pushes them to take risks and move the ball quickly which is funny coz it’s completely at odds with the view of most people on here who think our game plan is slow and grinding. Of course when we do this we look good and create scoring opportunities, that we sometimes take. However for whatever reason when they get a lead or if the opposition lifts the pressure they stop following instruction. You can see it happening in the game. The short kick into the corridor gets ignored for the safer “long down the line” option.

I watch 5-6 games a week and for all the debate about game plan essentially every team have the exact same game style. The difference between winning and losing is just whether the players have the ability to execute long enough to win. Even the bad sides are trying to do the same thing, they just don’t have the fitness and experience to execute. This team has been around long enough now that should not be an excuse. It seems it’s either a lack the confidence in their own skills or a lack of real genuine commitment to what they are doing. Until their mentality changes we are going to have games like tonight(& the hawks game & the dogs game & the swans game) over and over again.

Thankyou

 

[azlou]

At the end of the day it was great leaving the ground last night having beaten THAT team.

I’m with you I was rapt my son was pumped his mate not so much but it was a close game. It was edge of your seat in the second half.Didnt really give two hoots for our history or future just enjoyed a good game of footy at the G nothing beats beating that mob

 

[JustOneTime]

Thankyou

This means zero.

Voss would also re-iterate that he wants turnover goals from defensive 50, wants intercept goals from transition play etc.

So he wants all of the key benchmarks the AFL deem important right now. What he cant do is ensure it shows up as output.

Voss cant get the right mix of players, or the pre-season training drills, or the week to week KPI accountability on these key metrics to ensure they show up on gameday.

Saying the words means nothing. Reference point... for 4 years straight he keep saying we'll get after it...Will it be idiotic if we reach year 6 and he tells us in press conference we are getting after it with everyone in their 30s.

Voss and his group just dont know how to make it show up on gameday... as a baseline and not outlier performances like Geelong. He isnt in control, he is currently a passenger. Why is he just a passenger? Because this same group reached a prelim so they can do it. Voss just cant make them do it with 'any' consistency.

 

[bringdoullback]

After watching Melbourne's loss today i feel much better about this game.

 

[Gointocarlton]

This means zero.

Voss would also re-iterate that he wants turnover goals from defensive 50, wants intercept goals from transition play etc.

So he wants all of the key benchmarks the AFL deem important right now. What he cant do is ensure it shows up as output.

Voss cant get the right mix of players, or the pre-season training drills, or the week to week KPI accountability on these key metrics to ensure they show up on gameday.

Saying the words means nothing. Reference point... for 4 years straight he keep saying we'll get after it...Will it be idiotic if we reach year 6 and he tells us in press conference we are getting after it with everyone in their 30s.

Voss and his group just dont know how to make it show up on gameday... as a baseline and not outlier performances like Geelong. He isnt in control, he is currently a passenger. Why is he just a passenger because this same group reached a prelim so they can do it. Voss just cant make them do it with 'any' consistency.

All of the above is your opinion, that's fine, I dont share that opinion.

 

[JustOneTime]

All of the above is your opinion, that's fine, I dont share that opinion.

I know, that is why i quoted your opinion and then typed my different opinion. This is how the forum works.

 

[TheBlueCampaigner]

View attachment 2338360

That’s the one. So disappointed last year when I bought the woollen retro jumper and it didn’t have the sewn on monogram. Probably should have looked into it a bit more before shelling out the 200 odd buck but the iron on version was never the same as the old fashioned stitched one.

 

[blueblooded]

Motlop kicks that goal and the game is over and we probably win by 4-5 goals. Instead the game goes down to the wire. It was like Kemps miss against the Saints in the last game we lost last year that would have iced the game. The Giants game before the bye we dominated the first quarter then Weitering drops an uncontested mark that gives the Giants a goal out of nothing.

Sadly this group have always been making these sorts of catastrophic errors that either cost us a straight forward goal or give up an unnecessary goal. It is the defining characteristic of this group. No amount of game planning by the coaches can guard against the simplicity and consequences of these mistakes.

I’d go as far to say the group inherited it from the previous group as well. This sort of thing has been going on since the Judd/murphy era … dumb players costing us in big moments with massive brain fades. Costing us games year on year. I’d go as far as to say that 2011 side should have made the top 4 that year and even won that final in Perth if it wasn’t for brain fades at costly moments all year. It’s happened for a long time.

It happened at Richmond until a certain Dustin Martin lit a fuse in the joint in 2017. I get the feeling it will take a similar player to do the same to rid us of this sickness as well.

 

[Benaly28]

Fun fact:

No team scored 100 pts this week.

 

[Beyond Blue]

I’d go as far to say the group inherited it from the previous group as well. This sort of thing has been going on since the Judd/murphy era … dumb players costing us in big moments with massive brain fades. Costing us games year on year. I’d go as far as to say that 2011 side should have made the top 4 that year and even won that final in Perth if it wasn’t for brain fades at costly moments all year. It’s happened for a long time.

It happened at Richmond until a certain Dustin Martin lit a fuse in the joint in 2017. I get the feeling it will take a similar player to do the same to rid us of this sickness as well.

100%. Whilst Murphy, Gibbs, Simpson etc were fine players in their own right, they were never winning players. As seniors they were however role models for the next generation coming through, which is now the core of the current playing group, so they had a big impact on their development. The losing mentality was passed down to them.

I’ve said it a few times but this iteration may be Matthew Richardson’s version of Richmond and we are still a fair few years from finding our Dusty, who will break the mould and lead us to a flag. For a moment I thought Walsh might be that player, but I think that his back surgery may have put paid to that.

 

[Dramoth]

Then why the **** is he playing???

Because at the beginning of the season, he was fine. And over the course of the season, his knee has slowly degenerated until he is where he is now. Do we know someone else who's career got ****ed up because we played him well before he was truely 100% to come back? For a guy who should have played 250 games for us, even after the ACL he suffered, we were lucky he managed to play as many as he did. Kreuzer is going to need a knee replacement in about 10 years because of the damage done to his knee after his ACL.

The way I see it, Charlie is going to be in the same boat as Tractor. As to why he's playing... who else do we have who can pay the role he plays when he's 100% fit?

 

[Milshouse]

Went to the game last night, and while there is a lot to work through, it reinforced to me that the #1 problem right now is still the supporters. The atmosphere was appalling and borderline toxic, and this thread more than highlights that.

I honestly think that a lot of Carlton supporters have grown to PREFER things being bad, so they can wallow and vent and that because we have struggled for so long, they are using it as a kind of whole life catharsis.

Step back for a second and separate out all the noise, and...

• we started the game in the bottom 4, having struggled all year.
• we came out of the blocks really well and smoked one of our biggest rivals (who started the game 2 wins and 5 ladder spots above us) for 6 goals to 1 in the first quarter.

You would think the 40,000-odd Carlton supporters would be up on their feet at this point. Nope... barely a smattering of applause for the goals and quarter time passed with only a ripple of excitement.

• Opposition fights back and gets back into the game. Yep, that's what happens.
• At 3/4 time the coaches make changes (McGovern to the backline the big one). We rally, kick two goals and a matchwinning lead. The crowd is... mildly interested. Essendon rally a little but it is too late - their crowd is roaring. Meanwhile we are openly trashing our own, winning players.

Don't believe me? Here is a snippet of (basically) consecutive posts from our game day thread in the last quarter of a match we won against arguably our biggest rival, when the game was on the line":
"Weitering just flipping putrid,"
"Haynes that's two goals you've given them"
"Motlop mate.You could have walked that goal in. And you shit yourself in front of goal"
"If we somehow win this game they will put it in the dictionary under "papering over the cracks"."
"We have too many momentum killers in this group."
"Mots best game this year but more broadly that miss is the symptomatic of the real issue with this team.Not seizing their moments when they must, mentally not good enough."
"2 pathetic efforts from Weitering in 30 seconds"
"Weitering is horrible tonight, burning teammates everywhere"
"how good are essendon at kicking goals. we are so pea hearted in front of the sticks"
"Costly miss by Motlop earlierHas had a good game but Too many poor kicks"
"LUCKY"
"Who said we won't trade Walsh. Re-think your strategy"
"TDK absolutely has had no presence back there. Bloody hell."
"Absolutely weak as piss. How does nobody go up there?"
"Mots you better kick another"
"Tdk is a individual. Do the basics and punch FFS"
"Sing it quietly. This is an embarrassing win against a near VFL side if it happens"

That's the vibe of the club right now. First win in a month, coming off bad form, and all anyone wants to do is trash players rant about how 'mentally weak' the team is.

They rallied, held on and won. Against Essendon on the MCG, in front of 75,000 people. Motlop played his best game for the year and was by far the best small forward on the ground. TDK was clear BOG and dominated the game. Weitering is our most reliable defender and a club leader. Walsh was the leading ball-winner on the ground and will likely get brownlow votes. Yet as we hang on to win, the ONLY posts our supporters are making are bagging them.

The vibe between us and Collingwood supporters (in particular) is SO noticeable. If Collingwood lost a lead, then kicked two goals to start the last quarter their fans would be going beserk and suck the life out of the match for the opposition.

It is just so negative, all the time. Was that our best display of football ever? Nope, not even close. Is it worth celebrating? Absolutely, 100%. Taking some actual perspective on the game:

• We won in difficult conditions against a 6-4 opponent who have been a tough beat all year
• We won despite Cripps looking off (possibly unwell?), McKay missing, and with a bunch of important players returning from injury (who all got through unscathed)
• We kicked the second highest score so far this round (in horrid wet conditions) with Curnow just no-where near his best and a bit of a makeshift lineup around him
• Our defence held up well under pressure, and showed that almost all of them can take intercept marks and defend. That's as critical as anything to getting us going again
• We got good performances from a debutant, a couple of others who debuted this year (Lord played his first full game and Carroll who is going well), and a few young guys who have been under the pump
• The coaches... actually made the changes that turned the game when we were threatened. The players... actually stepped up in the last quarter when the heat was on, rode through he pressure, opened up a match-winning lead and hung on without ever really looking like getting beaten

Our season is alive. We have two very winnable games to come, then a bunch of harder games after that that will decide the season. If we get some momentum we go into those games (against Port away, and Gold Coast home, Collingwood, etc) with some confidence and positivity who knows what happens.

But I honestly think that half the 'supporters' of the club would prefer we lost so they can get their weekly fix of venting and anger out...

Here here, thanks for that, big footy has been putrid reading for too long, appreciate that post, was at the game also, incredibly strange atmosphere, get behind em 'bluebaggers' we're a better team when we do

 

[AT97]

That’s the one. So disappointed last year when I bought the woollen retro jumper and it didn’t have the sewn on monogram. Probably should have looked into it a bit more before shelling out the 200 odd buck but the iron on version was never the same as the old fashioned stitched one.

I know it’s not possible in the day of sponsorships, but wouldn’t it be great to see as close as possible to that jumper being paraded in retro round… nothing on the jumper bar the cfc and the number on the back. Ours is a thing of beauty particularly compared to some the abominations that appear each weak.

 

[Beyond Blue]

I thought Cincotta was outstanding last night. First game back against a very, very good player and he had Merrett in his pocket most of the night.

Given what Langdon did to Daicos today I can only hope we see Cinc tagging the opposition’s best player every week. We need a few more like him.

 

[95blues]

Because at the beginning of the season, he was fine. And over the course of the season, his knee has slowly degenerated until he is where he is now. Do we know someone else who's career got ****ed up because we played him well before he was truely 100% to come back? For a guy who should have played 250 games for us, even after the ACL he suffered, we were lucky he managed to play as many as he did. Kreuzer is going to need a knee replacement in about 10 years because of the damage done to his knee after his ACL.

The way I see it, Charlie is going to be in the same boat as Tractor. As to why he's playing... who else do we have who can pay the role he plays when he's 100% fit?

Charlies knee is gonna be infinitely worse than Kreuzers. Poor kid is gonna suffer in a big way come 40-50+

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

How does Durham only get 2 weeks ffs?

Because Cerra kept playing?

What a bad message... it could have caused untold damage....was clearly high and entirely intentional.

Disgraceful.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

First game in years I haven't watched in real time (live in UK). I've gotten up where required at 3-7 am to watch everything since moving to the UK in 2010. I buy a membership every year to support the club too which i need to think about.

Watched this game on replay for the first time and now with an attitude of 'what is Carlton going to show us today'? Embarrassment, a good performance like Geelong, a flatlining performance probably, gods knows.

Like a family drunk who keeps promising to change, so too does Michael Voss and Carlton. I felt Calton did their very best to lose the game but then in that last 15 minutes the Bombers basically said 'don't forget guys, we are just like you so you're safe as we will choke our chances'. If their are two clubs in the AFL right now, lacking confidence with a loser profile (based on expectations) then it is us AND the bombers.

Half glass empty, 'totally'. But in context of Vossy thinking we are on the right track, that we 'need to get after it' even though i'm not sure that he knows what to get after. After Vossy's crap about 'that is not us' when it is so us.

When our list is at its peak salary cap wise and age wise and we're facing media commentary of deconstructing our list, and potentially another 10 year rebuild if you are paying close attention. It is only normal to show some contempt for the position we are in. We are battling an injury hit Bombers team in the bottom half of the ladder and mostly going nowhere, and it's about 'how we are playing'. 'The how' is really horrible to watch which is the important thing to evaluate.

The bombers win allows Voss to paper over the cracks meaning no change. Just like the next few games. There are still some posters on this board devoutly defending the club and disparaging the glass half empty view. Good for those religious types...and you can find your voice again over the coming weeks as what...we play WCE and North a second time in quick succession. I'm sure these posters after beating both sides will have us as finals contenders. It is all fraudulent. Literally a curse to allow Vossy to hide even longer without change.

the club hierarchy.... and the faceless men/women are first and foremost supporters....

They see what we see - just from nicer, warmer seats!

They know Sunday's effort was poor, more of the same, garbage (at least for nearly three quarters).

Voss is under the pump, no doubt. And appears to have few answers....

It's getting close to the point where we need to accept his coaching tenure has been a(nother) fail sadly. Let alone the current tragic season...

Yes, the players must take some responsibility, but ultimately it's on Voss... few can argue he's extracted the best out of a highly talented core group....

 

[T2B_]

Agree with most of what you've stated there, however if supporters are our biggest problem then the club should just fold. Supporter idiocy should have little impact on a professional sporting organisation with elite athletes. I'm not sure it's our #1 issue.

Yeah this. Let's not forget also it's two decades of mediocrity (or worse) that's caused the fanbase to be this scarred and pessimistic, so the club only has itself to blame.

Now that said, we should all strive individually to be less toxic and not constantly depressed if only for our own health, but also to not be collectively such nuff nuffs. But it can be tough.

 

[JimmyRabbit49]

Only on this site will you see people complain about Curnow & Acres not taking their full 30 seconds as well as complaining Motlop didn't play on!!

While I get that it was frustrating that the margin was closer than it should be I think we should be asking the question - if that game was played out 100 times how many would the Bombers actually win? I mean for a start we had 8 more scoring shots but if we throw in Caddy's 1 in a million soccer off the ground hitting Gresham precisely between 2 defenders, Martin's soccer in the last that lead to a goal and even the last quarter hack forward in hope that accidentally turned in for a goal - it isn't hard to make the argument that almost everything went right for Essendon and they still couldn't get the win.

I would also say that it was good to get the win with Cripps, Curnow and Weitering having little impact while players like O'keeffe, Lord, Carroll and Motlop all made an impact.

Finally I have to chuckle at the "Motlop's best game but he blew the crucial goal" type comments for not only being entirely predictable but both managing to cling to any negative to support your entrenched position and ignoring the fact that this wasn't even close to Motlop's best game for the year - 19 possessions, 6 tackles and 1.3 against the Hawks (you could also make an argument for his games against North & the Eagles being better as well)was clearly better but quickly forgotten due to his whipping boy status

 

[JimmyRabbit49]

Went to the game last night, and while there is a lot to work through, it reinforced to me that the #1 problem right now is still the supporters. The atmosphere was appalling and borderline toxic, and this thread more than highlights that.

I honestly think that a lot of Carlton supporters have grown to PREFER things being bad, so they can wallow and vent and that because we have struggled for so long, they are using it as a kind of whole life catharsis.

Step back for a second and separate out all the noise, and...

• we started the game in the bottom 4, having struggled all year.
• we came out of the blocks really well and smoked one of our biggest rivals (who started the game 2 wins and 5 ladder spots above us) for 6 goals to 1 in the first quarter.

You would think the 40,000-odd Carlton supporters would be up on their feet at this point. Nope... barely a smattering of applause for the goals and quarter time passed with only a ripple of excitement.

• Opposition fights back and gets back into the game. Yep, that's what happens.
• At 3/4 time the coaches make changes (McGovern to the backline the big one). We rally, kick two goals and a matchwinning lead. The crowd is... mildly interested. Essendon rally a little but it is too late - their crowd is roaring. Meanwhile we are openly trashing our own, winning players.

Don't believe me? Here is a snippet of (basically) consecutive posts from our game day thread in the last quarter of a match we won against arguably our biggest rival, when the game was on the line":
"Weitering just flipping putrid,"
"Haynes that's two goals you've given them"
"Motlop mate.You could have walked that goal in. And you shit yourself in front of goal"
"If we somehow win this game they will put it in the dictionary under "papering over the cracks"."
"We have too many momentum killers in this group."
"Mots best game this year but more broadly that miss is the symptomatic of the real issue with this team.Not seizing their moments when they must, mentally not good enough."
"2 pathetic efforts from Weitering in 30 seconds"
"Weitering is horrible tonight, burning teammates everywhere"
"how good are essendon at kicking goals. we are so pea hearted in front of the sticks"
"Costly miss by Motlop earlierHas had a good game but Too many poor kicks"
"LUCKY"
"Who said we won't trade Walsh. Re-think your strategy"
"TDK absolutely has had no presence back there. Bloody hell."
"Absolutely weak as piss. How does nobody go up there?"
"Mots you better kick another"
"Tdk is a individual. Do the basics and punch FFS"
"Sing it quietly. This is an embarrassing win against a near VFL side if it happens"

That's the vibe of the club right now. First win in a month, coming off bad form, and all anyone wants to do is trash players rant about how 'mentally weak' the team is.

They rallied, held on and won. Against Essendon on the MCG, in front of 75,000 people. Motlop played his best game for the year and was by far the best small forward on the ground. TDK was clear BOG and dominated the game. Weitering is our most reliable defender and a club leader. Walsh was the leading ball-winner on the ground and will likely get brownlow votes. Yet as we hang on to win, the ONLY posts our supporters are making are bagging them.

The vibe between us and Collingwood supporters (in particular) is SO noticeable. If Collingwood lost a lead, then kicked two goals to start the last quarter their fans would be going beserk and suck the life out of the match for the opposition.

It is just so negative, all the time. Was that our best display of football ever? Nope, not even close. Is it worth celebrating? Absolutely, 100%. Taking some actual perspective on the game:

• We won in difficult conditions against a 6-4 opponent who have been a tough beat all year
• We won despite Cripps looking off (possibly unwell?), McKay missing, and with a bunch of important players returning from injury (who all got through unscathed)
• We kicked the second highest score so far this round (in horrid wet conditions) with Curnow just no-where near his best and a bit of a makeshift lineup around him
• Our defence held up well under pressure, and showed that almost all of them can take intercept marks and defend. That's as critical as anything to getting us going again
• We got good performances from a debutant, a couple of others who debuted this year (Lord played his first full game and Carroll who is going well), and a few young guys who have been under the pump
• The coaches... actually made the changes that turned the game when we were threatened. The players... actually stepped up in the last quarter when the heat was on, rode through he pressure, opened up a match-winning lead and hung on without ever really looking like getting beaten

Our season is alive. We have two very winnable games to come, then a bunch of harder games after that that will decide the season. If we get some momentum we go into those games (against Port away, and Gold Coast home, Collingwood, etc) with some confidence and positivity who knows what happens.

But I honestly think that half the 'supporters' of the club would prefer we lost so they can get their weekly fix of venting and anger out...

I would like this twice if I could.

The thing I find interesting is that only St Kilda, Richmond and Essendon have had more players make their AFL debut this year and the Blues have had more debutant's than the Hawks (6th) Suns (5th) Cats (4th), Crows (3rd) and Pies (1st) combined

 

[branedotorg]

Yes. 99% of the rhetoric coming from the fans was purely “just win”. Now it’s evolved into “just win, but only the way I want”. You can’t expect to win then complain when it’s not done in the manner you like. I was firmly in the “just win” camp. That win doesn’t change any narrative that was around pre-bye

For me and has been for a long time, right back to Judd has been "win using a sustainable system that doesn't rely on a superstar carrying the team"

You watch Collingwood, they have some stars but the whole team knows where and when to go, no matter where the ball is on the field. Richmond won three premierships from co-ordinated chaos.

We as a current team makes the simple stuff look hard because our systems aren't repeatable, especially when things aren't going well.

 

[branedotorg]

Does anyone remember the games late in 2020? There's similarities to our fadeouts under Voss. We'd go entire halves where we couldn't or wouldn't score at all.

There's something that has stopped this team from ever consistently being a four quarter team regardless of who's coaching it.

This is my position. I don't love our coaching team right now but I'm not convinced that any coaching group would be able to do a lot better without making some massive changes to the players.

If that's holding the stars to account for poor performance or trading some of them I don't know but there's a clear formline of 10+ years, an inability to win under pressure and to maintain an acceptable baseline of performance when the game isn't going your way.

 

[JimmyRabbit49]

For me and has been for a long time, right back to Judd has been "win using a sustainable system that doesn't rely on a superstar carrying the team"

You watch Collingwood, they have some stars but the whole team knows where and when to go, no matter where the ball is on the field. Richmond won three premierships from co-ordinate chaos.

We as a current team makes the simple stuff look hard because our systems aren't repeatable, especially when things aren't going well.

I want to rewatch the game but to me one of the positives was that when the Bombers got things on their terms a bit more in the second quarter there was almost zero damage on the scoreboard.

The third was a little different but it still took a freak moment to really get them back into it and then the last we rallied well - just kicked 2.4 to 3.1 and had moments like Weitering dropping a simple mark (and the umpiring went a little with the momentum of the bombers).

I am still very much in the execution failure over system failure camp - we constantly make mistakes that keep opposition teams in the game

 

[JK61]

Sad reality is that yesterday before the last quarter I was actually hoping we would lose. Voss would not have survived that I don’t think.

You have the bye, a two week mini break to try and turn the screws on some obvious mistakes and what happens … THE SAME SHIT

I am so done with this year and with the coaching and recruitment teams, Brad can also eat a dick.

Also a number of players too can GAGF.

Mentally fragile morons some of them.

Love the club that will never change but this lot will never win a premiership… they just don’t have what it takes.

Last night reminded us of that (if we ever needed reminding!)

Collingwood won a bunch of games in 2023 in similar fashion- close wins against weak teams. Were they mentally fragile morons also?