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List Mgmt. 2025 List Management 📃

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DangerousD said:
Of course if you have your two tall forward options subbed out mid game it will have a negative affect on how you play, i dont dispute that.

Our second half fade outs have occurred nearly every game this year, it was not a one off against the worst team in the comp but a regular occurrence. Our inability to play consistent football from quarter to quarter can’t be blamed on in game injuries every week, all other teams deal with injuries.
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The players run out of puff as is consistent with the profile of players on field - Carlton is carrying quite a few 'developing players' as starting players. eg Carroll, White, Lord, OFarrell, on top of pretend small forward HFF players ....

Good teams exploit weaknesses fairly easily.
 
Soapy V said:
I always feel things are getting bad when the leaks get louder and louder. I have had more messages in last week than last 3 months and all the same

My gut feel is we are in the edge now and if things don’t change quickly it could get ugly
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It is less about whether there is leaking and more about whether the club is honest about its situation.
I do not hear what you hear but my feeling is this is not going to be a paper over the cracks era of change like the Sayers years but a surgical removal of the pain points and strategic regrafting of personel with clear strategic intent. Much more sausage and a lot less sizzle. The proofs in the pudding but I am feeling positive and would be more so if the board was replaced
 
I'm a bit surprised by the discussions around keeping TDK over Harry.

While TDK is undoubtedly athletic, he still struggles with consistency. He's an average tap ruckman and a lot of his hit-outs tend to go to the opposition. He can be damaging when spreading from the contest, but his impact inside the forward 50 is fairly limited (to date)

I understand why the club might offer him $1 million, quality rucks are hard to come by, but the idea of retaining him instead of Harry leaves me scratching my head.

Harry is a Coleman Medallist and All-Australian forward who sacrifices a lot of his own game to complement Charlie. He’s also more than willing to do the hard yards — chasing down defenders, playing further up the ground, even rucking when needed.

Personally, I’d keep Harry over TDK any day.

It’s also worth mentioning that, albeit in a small sample size, HOK currently has a better hit-out win percentage than TDK. In 12 games, TDK averages 9.3 hit-outs to advantage, while HOK has averaged 2.5 in just two games and with limited ruck time.

Context matters, of course, and I’m not saying HOK is the better player so get rid of TDK. But the idea of throwing the kitchen sink at TDK to keep him, while potentially offloading Harry, really baffles me.

I’d like TDK to stay just not at the price St Kilda is supposedly offering, and certainly not at the expense of Harry.
 

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DangerousD said:
Put your list management cap on. Come seasons end if Gresham and Clarke go undrafted at the ND, do you push one of the Irish boys of the Cat B list to make way for one of them?

Monaghan if the club thought he still had something to offer could play VFL to continue his development.
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Also could with Gresham and Clarke, play and develop them through our reserves team/list…
 
DangerousD said:
Put your list management cap on. Come seasons end if Gresham and Clarke go undrafted at the ND, do you push one of the Irish boys of the Cat B list to make way for one of them?

Monaghan if the club thought he still had something to offer could play VFL to continue his development.
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I have tried putting my “list management cap” on. This off season will be absolutely brutal. Very few players are poor enough to be unceremonially delisted.

The older blokes logically should be the ones making way, but we know Voss will back them in. If TDK stays, that will no doubt mean the end for someone like Kemp when he should be integral to our future.

Monahan has been getting some “roles” in the twos. Did well on the weekend. His athletic profile is one of the best at the club. Potentially he could emulate the Cat’s O’Connor and Mullin who have become valuable role players in primarily negating roles. We are somewhat lacking in candidates for negating roles.

To date I am unimpressed by Clarke, like many, he is capable of a highlight, but small body of work. Gresham is interesting. While small, he is talented and a tackling machine. I am unsure if he is “more of the same” regarding our smalls, or could supply some x-factor if used primarily forward. Watch this space.
 
Coona Blues said:
I have tried putting my “list management cap” on. This off season will be absolutely brutal. Very few players are poor enough to be unceremonially delisted.

The older blokes logically should be the ones making way, but we know Voss will back them in. If TDK stays, that will no doubt mean the end for someone like Kemp when he should be integral to our future.

Monahan has been getting some “roles” in the twos. Did well on the weekend. His athletic profile is one of the best at the club. Potentially he could emulate the Cat’s O’Connor and Mullin who have become valuable role players in primarily negating roles. We are somewhat lacking in candidates for negating roles.

To date I am unimpressed by Clarke, like many, he is capable of a highlight, but small body of work. Gresham is interesting. While small, he is talented and a tackling machine. I am unsure if he is “more of the same” regarding our smalls, or could supply some x-factor if used primarily forward. Watch this space.
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It'll be tough this year.

Several of our fringe types who would be delisting possibilities have 2-3 year deals. Guys like Durdin, Boyd, Young.

Lemmey was on the delist pile a month ago but is now really showing something.

Charleston and White deserve more time. As does Wilson and Flynn Young.

The Irish boys arent taking up list spots unless one of our academy boys that we like falls through.

McGovern is still clear best 22. So is Newman. Maybe even Doc if he can turn his form around.

Fanta seems as easy delist but if plays the rest of the year could provide something we really lack.

Evans the only obvious one but he isn't even technically taking a spot since hes SPP.

My gut feel. We'll draft 3 players and get 1 via trade. Need 5 list spots (4 plus 1 for Young). Delist Evans.

Those 4 spots come from Docherty and Fanta retiring plus 1 of Kemp / Binns / Motlop being traded and 1 of Harry / TDK going.
 
Soapy V said:
If the TDK rumour is true it is consistent with what has happened (and I have posted over last 6 months or more) Senior group like Voss but are very concerned with game plan and direction. Feel they do everything asked but get picked apart against good opposition. Many feel coaches have no answers
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As some may know, Tim from the Prendercast is mates with Adam Kingsley and said GWS know Carlton just push all their players up from defence but leave themselves no outlet options and easy and predictable to play against (It think that's what he said ;))
 
Usually 7 to 8 changes each year.

Current OOC end of 2025, with my thoughts alongside
1. Jack Silvagni - KEEP!!
3. Jesse Motlop - trade
11. Mitch McGovern - 1 year
12. Tom De Koning - if possible, keep
14. Orazio Fantasia - retire (delist)
15. Sam Docherty - retire
17. Brodie Kemp - would like to keep, but either he or Lemmey, and I'd go Lemmey, so possible trade
24. Nic Newman - he or Haynes, but, 1 year
26. Nick Haynes - fantastic year for us, but the HOF... sorry, Nick, we need list spaces... retire/ delist (and an assistant coach / development coach?)
31. Harry Lemmey - keep
32. Matt Carroll (Pre-season SSP 2025) - keep
34. Rob Monahan (Rookie Cat B) - delist, sign to VFL
35. Billy Wilson - keep
38. Will White (SSP Rookie 2025) - delist
39. Alex Cincotta (Pre-season SSP 2023) - keep
41. Matt Duffy (Rookie Cat B) - keep (as can stay as Cat B)
44. Francis Evans (SSP Rookie 2025) - delist
45. Flynn Young (MSD Rookie 2025) - keep (1 yr)

Then there will be 1 or 2 others who may surprise us who wish to be traded...
 
Revenant1965 said:
Usually 7 to 8 changes each year.

Current OOC end of 2025, with my thoughts alongside
1. Jack Silvagni - KEEP!!
3. Jesse Motlop - trade
11. Mitch McGovern - 1 year
12. Tom De Koning - if possible, keep
14. Orazio Fantasia - retire (delist)
15. Sam Docherty - retire
17. Brodie Kemp - would like to keep, but either he or Lemmey, and I'd go Lemmey, so possible trade
24. Nic Newman - he or Haynes, but, 1 year
26. Nick Haynes - fantastic year for us, but the HOF... sorry, Nick, we need list spaces... retire/ delist (and an assistant coach / development coach?)
31. Harry Lemmey - keep
32. Matt Carroll (Pre-season SSP 2025) - keep
34. Rob Monahan (Rookie Cat B) - delist, sign to VFL
35. Billy Wilson - keep
38. Will White (SSP Rookie 2025) - delist
39. Alex Cincotta (Pre-season SSP 2023) - keep
41. Matt Duffy (Rookie Cat B) - keep (as can stay as Cat B)
44. Francis Evans (SSP Rookie 2025) - delist
45. Flynn Young (MSD Rookie 2025) - keep (1 yr)

Then there will be 1 or 2 others who may surprise us who wish to be traded...
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My keeps are the bolded players.

Eyebrow raiser is TDK. Would keep if he was $800,000, but he will be definitely be asking for over $1-1.2 million a year from Carlton to get him closer to a St Kilda offer.
 
1. Jack Silvagni - Keep
3. Jesse Motlop - Trade
11. Mitch McGovern - Trade
12. Tom De Koning - Trade
14. Orazio Fantasia - retire
15. Sam Docherty - retire
17. Brodie Kemp - Trade
24. Nic Newman - Keep
26. Nick Haynes - Keep
31. Harry Lemmey - Keep
32. Matt Carroll (Pre-season SSP 2025) - Keep
34. Rob Monahan (Rookie Cat B) - delist
35. Billy Wilson - Keep
38. Will White (SSP Rookie 2025) - delist
39. Alex Cincotta (Pre-season SSP 2023) - Keep
41. Matt Duffy (Rookie Cat B) - Keep
44. Francis Evans (SSP Rookie 2025) - Delist
45. Flynn Young (MSD Rookie 2025) - Keep

Would also like Fogarty and Binns gone but no-one will take them contracted.

9 list changes - it’s about what we need to bring in some run and execution forward of centre.
 
Soapy V said:
If the TDK rumour is true it is consistent with what has happened (and I have posted over last 6 months or more) Senior group like Voss but are very concerned with game plan and direction. Feel they do everything asked but get picked apart against good opposition. Many feel coaches have no answers

Meetings have been held and coaches have adjusted but it’s been minimal

Players feel they have the talent just not the structure and plan. There have been many comments from other players and coaches about how basic our game plan is

It is a massive issue internally and I feel it’s eating away at our group. They are trying to stick together but it’s getting hard.

Players such as Cripps Walsh Weitering are really struggling with staying positive and getting up each week

The hope is Wright will step in and address some issues and quickly
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Yeah, it is Voss's fault they can't kick straight in front of the goal or general play.................The players are to blame, not the coaches
 

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Blue__Balls said:
Cool....now point to where I said he has to.

He has choices. If he wants the big payday, he chooses St Kilda. If he wants the best shot at a flag, he chooses somewhere like Geelong. If he wants to play with his brother, he chooses Geelong. If he wants to live and work close to the surf beach, he chooses Geelong. If he wants to be loyal to the club that has developed him, he chooses Carlton. If he wants to keep playing footy with the same group of mates, he chooses Carlton.

He'll weigh up all of those options and decide on whatever ticks the most relevant boxes for him.

I have no opinion one way or the other on which is "right" - it's none of my business.
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Scenario 3: TDK accepts Carlton's offer (ie. TDK's decision is loyalty-motivated)

This is what I answered to
 
Revenant1965 said:
I don't think a club can delist and rookie straight away. I think that was a COVID era thing...
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Under AFL rules, clubs must have at least three list senior list vacancies in order to take part in the national draft. Before the national draft, clubs will delist a player to open up a senior list spot, but commit to re-drafting that player in the rookie draft.
 
Wickzki said:
I can't wait for the inevitable "you pay TDK this much this is what my client is worth" comparisons player managers have always and will always dish up at contract time.

Carlton suffered through this for years under our previous build. We overpaid many average and below average talents (e.g. Warnock) so what happened? Every player who thought that they were comparable to him demanded their piece of the pie.

If they sign TDK and lose NWM it wouldn't shock me in the slightest if his manager dished out a "obviously there's the go home factor but we couldn't come to contract terms" type statement and it would be accurate (if TDK is worth 1.7 to them then NSW would have to think he's worth over a million too type thing).
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I would swap Tdk for NWM In a heartbeat his class and his manager would want more than what they are offering Tom
 
My Hat said:
Is the delist & re-rookie tactic still a thing? Could be a way to keep someone like Haynes perhaps, or maybe even Doc?
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Based on this moment in time and not potential end of year form, id rookie Doc if i was having to choose between the two.

Haynes has grown on me as the season has gone on. I'd almost say hes structurally important to our defence.
 

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BlueJet said:
We won't keep him for unders, discussion seems to reflect that we've table around 1m, which is already overs.
Better player is also very much debatable given he's around a 50:50 proposition to beat his direct opponent any given week.
H despite playing out of position, being down form/fitness has probably been more of a matchwinner, yet some of our fans are seemingly determined to have him head for the exit.
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Put Harry in a well coached team and look out
 
marcmurphy3 said:
Haynes would be top 5 in our B&F right now. Has to get another contract.
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This. I thought Haynes first few games with us were utter shite but he's really adapted and near essential in our back line right now.
 
FitzroyBlueBagger said:
Also could with Gresham and Clarke, play and develop them through our reserves team/list…
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Not sure what you mean here. If Gresham, ISON or Clarke get through the ND, then they can be listed on the Cat B rookie list.

If they are added to the VFL list like I think you’re suggesting, then adding to the list would require taking them in an upcoming draft.
 
Really annoys me that people here were stating Cottrel was out for the season weeks ago, yet we still only took one player in the MSD.

Why wouldn’t we try and have a look at someone? What harm could it have done?

In the two weeks since the MSD we have Cottrel ruled out for the season and Hollands reported as out for the season.

Crap by Austin
 
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