List Mgmt. 2025 List Management discussion

[stavro#4]

I feel sure the TDK stories out of Carlton are the new president and CEO telling their supporters that they've done everything to sell the club to Tom but the money can't be matched.

If the offers were identical, he would stay.

From what I’ve heard they won’t be budging.

 

[phantom13]

Complete confidence in the people I’ve spoken to previously about Battle at the club and others who get very good info here, that I know have been spot on in the past.

The only bit of contention I have with the 2 sources of information is Bergman.

I think the saints are lukewarm on him, but those I’ve put my info forward to on bigfooty seem to think we are almost nailed on to get him.

Fair.

My concern with TDK in particular is we can do everything and still get trumped by Carlton. It’s out of our control (as per my above post).

 

[stavro#4]

Fair.

My concern with TDK in particular is we can do everything and still get trumped by Carlton. It’s out of our control (as per my above post).

As per my above post.

He ideally wants to stay at Carlton (that isn’t a secret)

But they apparently won’t be budging and he is apparently a switched on guy and understands how generational that type of money might be and why it genuinely might be impossible to turn down.

 

[stavro#4]

 

[L_W_P]

I can't help but wonder if Ross saw the list from the outside and believed it could do much better, but when he got in and got to know the squad he realized it was going to be a much longer operation.

There's that story about Steele rating himself 8/10 and Ross being a bit annoyed that he didn't believe he was a 10/10.

Could be that GWS final loss was when Ross decided to try and push the next generation up rather than make a run with Steele, Wilkie, Sinc, Hill, Wood & RoMa.

Keep them in so the kids don't get wiped out every week, develop the squad in the VFL and make them earn spots etc but the message is clear: We aren't a 'middle' rung team anymore.

The rebuild is well and truly on.

 

[phantom13]

As per my above post.

He ideally wants to stay at Carlton (that isn’t a secret)

But they apparently won’t be budging and he is apparently a switched on guy and understands how generational that type of money might be and why it genuinely might be impossible to turn down.

They won’t budge now, if they shed one or two later on and can bring that offer up the whole equation changes. Added to Carlton’s sell of being a one club legend and it’s got moving parts.

I admire your faith, there’s a lot outside of our control here and he can’t sign a contract until after the season is done with us. He certainly seems more likely than not to come but it’s not even close to set in stone.

Additionally if Nas hasn’t signed every week it becomes a bigger concern.

 

[SainterinSydney]

They will all stay

TDK will come

People just need to find some calm and not be caught up in the noise of the last week.

I agree. Everyone needs to calm down. The only legitimate source who has said something with a track record confirmed Nas is staying. They even had the 6pr radio leaks about it. They may be waiting to get all three: Keeler, Nas and Windy signed and announced at same time.

 

[phantom13]

I can't help but wonder if Ross saw the list from the outside and believed it could do much better, but when he got in and got to know the squad he realized it was going to be a much longer operation.

There's that story about Steele rating himself 8/10 and Ross being a bit annoyed that he didn't believe he was a 10/10.

Could be that GWS final loss was when Ross decided to try and push the next generation up rather than make a run with Steele, Wilkie, Sinc, Hill, Wood & RoMa.

Keep them in so the kids don't get wiped out every week, develop the squad in the VFL and make them earn spots etc but the message is clear: We aren't a 'middle' rung team anymore.

The rebuild is well and truly on.

That’s what it looks like to me tbh. Except I think making finals might have sold him a bit more on what we had rather than the opposite. Not giving Battle that extra cash to stay at the end of 24 looks more like the tipping point to me.

 

[Joffaboy]

Like who???

The Callaghan approach seemed after he signed.

The weight of the TDK signing is a massive distraction for the players.

What other club has had to deal with constant innuendo about their star player leaving and the largest contract in history on the table for a ruckman (when we already have a decent one)

I just wish the media would back off us, just once in a while.

Kelly
Sheil (from GWS)
LDU
Callaghan
Others
Houston
DeGoey
These are off the top of my head. I am sure there are others.
How many did we land?

 

[Holy Hunter Clark]

I agree. Everyone needs to calm down. The only legitimate source who has said something with a track record confirmed Nas is staying. They even had the 6pr radio leaks about it. They may be waiting to get all three: Keeler, Nas and Windy signed and announced at same time.

Mate as soon as Nas signs you'd be screaming it from the top of a mountain

 

[phantom13]

Kelly
Sheil (from GWS)
LDU
Callaghan
Others
Houston
DeGoey
These are off the top of my head. I am sure there are others.
How many did we land?

Caldwell.

Our misses outweigh our hits by a ****ing country mile. We all know the reasons. It’s also why we’re paying WAY overs to lure TDK, millions more is the only hope we’ll ever have

 

[stavro#4]

They won’t budge now, if they shed one or two and can bring that offer up. Added to Carlton’s sell of being a one club legend.

I admire your faith, there’s a lot outside of our control here and he can’t sign a contract until after the season is done with us. He certainly seems more likely than not to come but it’s not even close to set in stone.

Additionally if Nas hasn’t signed every week it becomes a bigger concern.

They are just timelines supporters/reporters etc are putting on this. They don’t mean anything other than creating a narrative.

I have faith because I’ve been fortunate in the last few years to be close to very good, HONEST info that has been pretty much bang on the money.

I’ll back this one in.

 

[Parkysp]

Keeler should walk out if we only offer a year. Pretty confident that Nas is gone now. If we haven't announced it after this absolutely diabolical week he's not staying. Putting up pictures of the players seems to be patronising and cringe to me. That would be off putting to a lot of indigenous kids.

Good article saying he's a free agent though.

I reckon the Yawa room would have been setup with Aunty Katrina and the players input. It would seem the most unlikely that all the non indigenous people at the club created a room and then went "Tada..What do ya reckon about what we did for you".

Sorry Gringo but on that one your comment is patronising

 

[MordySaint]

Kelly
Sheil (from GWS)
LDU
Callaghan
Others
Houston
DeGoey
These are off the top of my head. I am sure there are others.
How many did we land?

Where is the $1.7 million on the table for a midfielder is the point I am getting at.

TDK would be nice, but he won't fix our midfield.

 

[gringo2011]

Important people only act when publicly embarrassed. It is not possible for me to agree with your assessment any less. Behind closed doors is where they want us because then they can deny any communication ever happened.

The "lobby behind closed doors" approach gives as much succour to our enemies as when we bring up our past failings when the brokenness of the draft is discussed.

We've only won one premiership in 150 years. Perhaps we should play our games behind closed doors? We've tested that idea during the last couple of home games.

A family friend used to work for the AFL and they were constantly trying to make a competitive balance mechanism that worked. They measure on how many of the clubs have reached a prelim or better over a recent period. Gold Coast has been given special treatment because after nearly 15 years of being in the competition they have never played in a final.

It wasn't long ago Bribane had new draftees walking out of a club that had sat bottom 4 for years. They have over corrected but it takes a while to turn it back around.

Funny enough the best run clubs are probably Geelong, Collingwood, Port and Sydney, they are barely ever are out of finals and mostly close to challenging for a flag. Bulldogs probably realistically not far behind and Hawks and Richmond have had down periods but bagged a huge amount of the flags in the last 20 years. Sydney has had a few windfalls from the system but most of the others just work the angles and use professional decision makers to keep improving systems, staff and playing list additions.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

Complete confidence in the people I’ve spoken to previously about Battle at the club and others who get very good info here, that I know have been spot on in the past.

The only bit of contention I have with the 2 sources of information is Bergman.

I think the saints are lukewarm on him, but those I’ve put my info forward to on bigfooty seem to think we are almost nailed on to get him.

Well if all that happens (Naz tdk birdman) all things going well we’ll have a completely different outlook next year. (Injuries permitting)

 

[gringo2011]

I reckon the Yawa room would have been setup with Aunty Katrina and the players input. It would seem the most unlikely that all the non indigenous people at the club created a room and then went "Tada..What do ya reckon about what we did for you".

Sorry Gringo but on that one your comment is patronising

My cousin was indigenous. If his workplace had singled him out and put pictures up of him about his journey and ancestry he would have hated being there. Maybe this newer group is different but I've known a few indigenous guys and most are shy and humble and hate being in the spotlight.

 

[phantom13]

They are just timelines supporters/reporters etc are putting on this. They don’t mean anything other than creating a narrative.

I have faith because I’ve been fortunate in the last few years to be close to very good, HONEST info that has been pretty much bang on the money.

I’ll back this one in.

What do you mean? He can’t physically sign a contract with us until the off season. That means stuff can continue to shift and move on TDK, our people could be the best negotiators on planet earth, if Carlton sheds some cap and ups his offer he’ll have a figure in mind that’s close enough for him to stay.

Nas wise timelines might be arbitrary but if we keep playing like last week then potential improvement along with the go home factor becomes an issue. We also might turn it around. Battle showed us last year the longer a year goes without a signature the worse it generally is for the incumbent club.

 

[gringo2011]

Nas is gone and TDK will stay.

That frees up enough cash to go for SOS' real target. The CHB option we've been screaming for. A bloke we will pay close to $2mil and probably make captain.

Captain... Jack.



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I would chase him over TDK to be honest. He makes a lot more sense and would be lucky to be on $850k x 4. Replaces Battle with a near perfect replacement and is output over fanfare. Our back 6 was the best in the AFL last year. With Battle gone it battles.

 

[gringo2011]

Do we actually have rights to fincher?

Yes.

 

[MordySaint]

Battle showed us last year the longer a year goes without a signature the worse it generally is for the incumbent club.

We wanted the pick last year. Offering a few percent over the offer on the table, won't sway someone.

If we wanted Battle to stay then we should have made him an offer that he couldn't refuse.

 

[Ads734]

The big one nobody is talking about is Phillipou. He is out of contract at the end of next year.

I have heard Ross speak a few times. Out of everybody Pou is the most desperate for success. He will not tolerate being in a crap side, it has also been mentioned he has struggled to fit in. He is a different cat, and has high standards then have rubbed his teammates the wrong way at times.

We are legit staring down the barrell of losing Battle, NAS, and Pou over a 3 year window. Can't remember a side ever losing 3 out of 5 of their most important players in consecutive years.

EDIT: We lose NAS and Pou may as well fully gut the list and start from scratch.

Dude calm your bloody farm. No indication about Pou not signing. In fact everything supports the opposite.

Let me tell you this much if he’s weird at saints he’s going to be weird at all clubs.

 

[True Believer]

I would chase him over TDK to be honest. He makes a lot more sense and would be lucky to be on $850k x 4. Replaces Battle with a near perfect replacement and is output over fanfare. Our back 6 was the best in the AFL last year. With Battle gone it battles.

With Battle AND Howard gone you mean? See this is the simplicity of the narrative that starts with the media. We lost Battle and our defence is far worse this year......except that we have been without 2 of the 3 key talls from last year because Howard has missed pretty much the whole season as well!

 

[Joffaboy]

Caldwell.

Our misses outweigh our hits by a ****ing country mile. We all know the reasons. It’s also why we’re paying WAY overs to lure TDK, millions more is the only hope we’ll ever have

Actually the irony is Caldwell wanted to come.
From my perspective, we would have had a good midfield with (some of those above probably signing up) if we had drafted Bontempelli and Petracca.
Now nothing is linear, we may have not come last if we had Bont, had come, either could have done a knee etc. However we would have had a basis of a midfield to work on.
Over a decade later we are still a poor midfield, we cant attract midfielders for this and the AFL imposed rules we have discussed on here.
I might be old fashioned but still think flags are usually won by a powerful midfield.
We go for shiney new toys, McCartin, King, or HBF'ers Coffield and Clark ( a mid that is only a solid citizen) and have only started looking at mids in the draft since Pou.
But now it's too late. We can't get the good mids, Travaglia is a hbf'er, Tauru a back, both good players, but we never rebuild the mids.
Because of compromised drafts we miss out on the top 5 mids every year, because we don't get big games and crowds we can't recruit mids. We picked up Macrae, a 30 year old who couldn't crack the mids at the Dogs, our best mid early on before he got injured.
For 15 years we have concentrated on everything but mids.
You reap what you sow.

 

[phantom13]

With Battle AND Howard gone you mean? See this is the simplicity of the narrative that starts with the media. We lost Battle and our defence is far worse this year......except that we have been without 2 of the 3 key talls from last year because Howard has missed pretty much the whole season as well!

Personally think Camma has been equal to Dougal anyway plus he’s the future so the experience now is more beneficial in the long run