Autopsy Round 15 - Collingwood v St Kilda

[PJays]

If that game finished 10 minutes earlier, most of us would walk away satisfied knowing we pushed the premiership favourites.

But that last 10 minutes leaves a sour taste in the mouth.

Thought final scoreboard didn't reflect the competitiveness of the 4 quarters.

There were a few 50/50s that went Collingwood's way and resulted in goals shortly thereafter.

Saints won disposals, clearances, won contested by 21 and lost inside 50s by 4.

Ultimately Collingwood were slicker, and they finish games well.

 

[SaintJunior]

He sure AF isnt tanking, couldnt be more desperate for a win. He has always been the most stubborn man in football. Once he has made up his mind you wont change it.

Owens will never play much mid time, he has made up his mind. Cant change it now. We are 5-9 after being 3-1. We are close to the worst side in the comp the last 10 weeks, and the list is WAY better then we are giving it credit for. Lyon is a disaster.

Harvey has made up his mind , does not rate Mitch as as mid due to the flaws in his kicking.

But keep going with your Lyon retric.

 

[stavro#4]

For me we clearly have a trend of rushing players back. Competitors will always want to play, but it's about a career not one game. Obviously he shouldn't have come back in and he must have issues to injur it in a warm up. Doogs also rushed back. King rushed back time and time again. Marshall rushed back at the start of the season too. Our medical treatment and rehabilitation needs a review asap imo

That goes directly against what Lyon has said about King all year.

Marshall was touch and go for round 1. There were track watches telling us he was in training for a good few weeks prior.

 

[SaintJunior]

So what does that say about our coaching staff

seriously you have one narrative and it is boring and blatantly obvious .

Do you actually have any capacity to analyse the game the list etc or is it all just Lyons fault?

 

[stavro#4]

If that game finished 10 minutes earlier, most of us would walk away satisfied knowing we pushed the premiership favourites.

But that last 10 minutes leaves a sour taste in the mouth.

Thought final scoreboard didn't reflect the competitiveness of the 4 quarters.

There were a few 50/50s that went Collingwood's way and resulted in goals shortly thereafter.

Saints won disposals, clearances, won contested by 21 and lost inside 50s by 4.

Ultimately Collingwood were slicker, and they finish games well.

Pies also had the 3 most dominant players on the ground.

Cameron Daicos and Lipinski


Owens had 6 shots at goal last night for 1.2 return.
He was pretty close to being a match winner from 12 disposals.

 

[stavro#4]

Just on Chito.

Having a good season. But in the scheme of things will be seen as a nearly season because of his goal kicking.

Slightly less disposals compared to 2023. But more shots at goal and on track to exceed what he kicked that year. Averaging More goal assists and score involvements.

 

[Joffaboy]

But the Saints are whingers about NGA,they got Windhager and Owens didn't they?
One is a tagger one couldn't hit the side of a barn with their kicking.
Meanwhile a top 4 team and recent premier gets Daicos for free.
Yup equilivence

 

[saintbill]

Harvey has made up his mind , does not rate Mitch as as mid due to the flaws in his kicking.

But keep going with your Lyon retric.

Sorry, who is the senior coach again?

Fyfe and Danger are poor kicks. 2 of the best mids in the last 20 years.

For a side that cant win a contested ball, its amazing we have ruled out the 1 competitive beast in the side from playing as a mid.

I dont care who is responsible, Lyon, Harvey, Enright, collectively they have had an atricious season. Of our 5 wins, 3 of them the opposition was coming home hard and we fell over the line. Could easily be 2 and 12. Not even close in our losses. The loss to Carlton who had no bench for a half was as bad a coaching performance as I have ever seen.

We roll up every week with midfield rotations of Steele, Macrae, Clark etc.

This is an unininspired coaching group, that needs to massively find something or they can all leave as far as I am concerned.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Think it’s time we take the burden of captaincy off Steele (and then obviously pass it to Wilkie who is well deserving).

Jack Steele 2025 - having a very average year (avg 21.8 disp, 5.3 clearance, 74% eff.)

His one wood is tackling (avg. 7.9 in 2025 which is elite).

It would make sense to lighten his load and get in him best shape to play his game. Focus on tackling, tagging, being a link up
player. From there I could see him going above and beyond in a few games too, but as it stands he’s just not making the most of his traits.

Easy to forget but in his prime he could kick 2+ goals in a game, have 27+ possies, 10+ tackles etc. In one year he was a genuine Brownlow top 3. He has the traits, but gotta go back to the basics. Or… if he really is incompatible with Ross then move him on (but I think this is highly unlikely, and a waste of an asset).

He has never looked a comfortable captain. I don’t remember seeing him look ecstatic since kicking that goal against GWS in the last round of 2020, that was pique steeley. 2021 he had a great year and then ever since he’s fallen off. Coming up to season 2026 now. Time to pass the torch, and have a rebirth in the twilight of his career (will be 30 end of this year).

Wilkie isn’t young either, but he is arguably the most consistent player in the league. And all Australian calibre. And a natural born leader. He deserves captainship whilst we change the guard to the younger players coming through.

Co-captain, one year Wilkie and Windy.
The next year Wilkie and NAS ( hopefully) for as long as Wilkie can play, every year introduce a younger player into it. Create many leaders because that’s what we are sorely lacking.

A slightly different take on the GT model.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Thought we played well last night. Shame it blew out, but we were right in it up until the last.

Don't get the Bynes pile on, thought he was OK. Keeler showed a lot again, Wilson was very good as well. They shut down Sincs, which hurt us. Marshall had a mare, why he kept trying to kick it out of the ruck was frustrating. Actually thought at times we looked better with Keeler in the ruck.

Our forwardline connection wasn't great, could barely take a mark i50. We need to find some better method going in.

There's things to improve on, but we showed huge improvement from last week.

High balls with our lack of talls is never going to work. If Keeler happens to be there, that’s one thing. As the commentators mentioned, why isn’t some leading straight to McCrae or whoever when they’re kicking it inside 50?

 

[saintbill]

High balls with our lack of talls is never going to work. If Keeler happens to be there, that’s one thing. As the commentators mentioned, why isn’t some leading straight to McCrae or whoever when they’re kicking it inside 50?

Our structures are horrible. NFI how to move the ball.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Harvey has made up his mind , does not rate Mitch as as mid due to the flaws in his kicking.

But keep going with your Lyon retric.

Well maybe Ross could overrule him and at least try him there. He’s strong and can force his way through. At the moment he’s just not a reliable enough kicker to play forward.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Owens had 6 shots at goal last night for 1.2 return.
He was pretty close to being a match winner from 12 disposals.

Unfortunately close, but ultimately no cigar.

 

[mad-saint-guy]

You understand player feedback is the most important measure here right?

So against Melbourne he played in pain and backfired.

Last night it came back and he showed maturity to pull out.

The tears are because he has had a ****ed up year right as games were about to get going after being the best player on the track.

He hasn’t been mismanaged.

He's only been able to play 3 games out of 14 due to a combination of a stress fracture (overloading) and repeated soft tissue injuries. He also took to the field injured in one game and immediately had to come off. And then went to warm up in another game and didn't even make it to the first bounce before reinjuring himself.

What is your definition of mismanaged, if not that?

 

[westernsainter]

It's sadly at the point where I don't get excited about Owens taking a mark i50. Chalk it up mentally as a behind before he's kicked it. Surely he can fix it because he's actually a great kick when he isn't taking a set shot.

 

[PJays]

Pies also had the 3 most dominant players on the ground.

Cameron Daicos and Lipinski

I'd have Daicos, Cameron and NWM as a top 3 that are hard to separate.

 

[Sainttony]

What says it all about this game was when Tobie came on and was playing on Pendlebury for a short while. Tobie was not even born when Pendles played his first game. Oct 2006 birthday.

Massive difference in experience and age across the field and when that is considered we have done quite well sticking with them until that last 10 mins when we ran out of steam.

If you take this game as an indication of our season all is on track. If you look at last week v Bulldogs not so much. Let’s hope this week is the way forward.

One thing we do have to sort in the off season is injury management. Not sure if bad luck but we do seem to constantly have major players sidelined.

 

[stavro#4]

He's only been able to play 3 games out of 14 due to a combination of a stress fracture (overloading) and repeated soft tissue injuries. He also took to the field injured in one game and immediately had to come off. And then went to warm up in another game and didn't even make it to the first bounce before reinjuring himself.

What is your definition of mismanaged, if not that?

A stress fracture injury - overloading would be just as much on the player as it is on the club.

Unless you are arguing the club was cracking the whip on him and he was screaming in pain.

As I said in my first post. The biggest indicator in these types of injuries is player feedback.

I think we can all guess with some accuracy what Phillipou would have been saying and doing.

 

[stavro#4]

I'd have Daicos, Cameron and NWM as a top 3 that are hard to separate.

We lost the game. Those 3 pies had more impact than Nas unfortunately.

That’s not a knock on him. But those 3 were likely the vote getters.

 

[PJays]

One thing we do have to sort in the off season is injury management. Not sure if bad luck but we do seem to constantly have major players sidelined.

Look, this is a common view but I don't think it's accurate

King and Pou have had tough runs but every team has players like that.

Wilkie, Sinclair, Marshall, Steele, Higgins, NWM, Hill, Wood have been mostly healthy the last few years.

The only time I can remember any of them having a major injury was the freak collision where Wood broke his collarbone. They've had a few soft tissues here and there, but none turned into long-term issues.

So the idea St Kilda has a major issue managing injuries and keeping players fit, I don't buy it.

 

[PJays]

We lost the game. Those 3 pies had more impact than Nas unfortunately.

That’s not a knock on him. But those 3 were likely the vote getters.

We'll see if you're right, but my eye test says Nas had huge influence. Massive

And the stats support that -

• Highest disposals with 35, at 77% efficiency.
• Highest metres gained
• Highest rebound 50s
• 6 score involvements, good for a defender.

 

[stavro#4]

We'll see if you're right, but my eye test says Nas had huge influence. Massive

And the stats support that -

• Highest disposals with 35, at 77% efficiency.
• Highest metres gained
• Highest rebound 50s
• 6 score involvements, good for a defender.

Yeah don’t disagree he had a big impact.

But those 3 did it forward of the centre. Each hit the scoreboard. The 2 mids had 20+ touches.

They were their 3 match winners at the end of the night.

We had nas and a nearly night from Owens. Had he kicked well. I think we win and it’s shining light performances from our 2 young guns.

 

[TheNewEnsign]

If we don't play Mitch in the middle & forward 50/50 then we're wasting his potential. As others have said, Danger has never been a good kick.

I'd 100% rather (from the centre) have Mitch clear stoppage, take a bit of metreage and the kick well into the f50 than our current option of Marshall takes it, jams it on the boot and it almost invariably is marked about ~55ishm from goal by a defender playing in front.

 

[The Jack]

We lost the game. Those 3 pies had more impact than Nas unfortunately.

That’s not a knock on him. But those 3 were likely the vote getters.

If Daicos had have the same 35 as NAS playing off half back in close losing side, he’d get the 3. But he’s darling Nick.

 

[PJays]

Yeah don’t disagree he had a big impact.

But those 3 did it forward of the centre. Each hit the scoreboard.

Are you suggesting impact forward of the centre is automatically superior to impact in the back half?

That's fairly contentious I would've thought

Another way of looking at this, is take NWM out of St Kilda and we probably lose by 50 or more. It's no longer a tight contest into the 4th, because he was so crucial in getting us back into it

Take any of those 3 out of Collingwood and Collingwood still wins comfortably.

To be clear, I reckon there was no obvious BOG but Nas is certainly in the discussion.