Strategy Changes: Round 16 Fremantle vs. St Kilda

[Taylor]

What are the ruck rules at the moment.

If he runs up and jumps at the opposition ruck, and they just put their hand up, push him away from the drop of the ball and then tap it away is that in the rules?

Only considered a blocking free if they don't make an attempt at the ball after.

It's why the smaller rucks try and start the throw in well away and run into the ball against the big rucks, to avoid that wrestle and their nearly inevitable push away from the ball and clear hitout to advantage against them.

 

[go_the_dockers]

Yes, I believe so

Only considered a blocking free if they don't make an attempt at the ball after.

It's why the smaller rucks try and start the throw in well away and run into the ball against the big rucks, to avoid that wrestle and their nearly inevitable push away from the ball and clear hitout to advantage against them.

I wonder how you counter it, in the centre square. I am still scarred by watching Gawn smashed us all day in Melbourne.

 

[Taylor]

I wonder how you counter it, in the centre square. I am still scarred by watching Gawn smashed us all day in Melbourne.

By being bigger and stronger

 

[Nothing]

By being bigger and stronger

Do we have a ruck that fits that criteria?

We should play him if we do.

 

[freo84]

Wilkie can go to Treacy... who's stopping the prancing pony?

 

[anchor man]

What are the ruck rules at the moment.

If he runs up and jumps at the opposition ruck, and they just put their hand up, push him away from the drop of the ball and then tap it away is that in the rules?

Great question. I really honestly don't think there are any.
It is like WWE at every ruck contest.
At every contest, there are at least five infringemnets from each of the ruckmen.
It is one of the greatest blights on our game.
Some of the great ruckmen of the past must shudder seeing the wrestling.

 

[Paracleet]

Great question. I really honestly don't think there are any.
It is like WWE at every ruck contest.
At every contest, there are at least five infringemnets from each of the ruckmen.
It is one of the greatest blights on our game.
Some of the great ruckmen of the past must shudder seeing the wrestling.

So you are saying that all we need to do is train Jackson in how to apply the cross face chicken wing then we're good to trade Darcy?

 

[ignoramus]

We can play Jackson/Darcy together every game if Jackson the mid works. The single most important thing that will decide if they want to keep going with it IMO is how badly do we get killed on transition with them both on the field at once? If they can make that work, the combo can work

Like, this is it. All this blather about 1.7mill of salary cap in the ruck stocks is exactly that, if Jackson is not in actual fact a ruck but a part-time midfielder. And all the talk about mobile ruckman is undone when you’ve got 1) a dominant tap ruckmen bypassing oppo mids in the first place, and 2) a mobile ruckman also already at the scene.

All that crap about Jackson wanting to be the number 1 ruck is weird reading of every comments I’ve seen him make on the question., where he’s saying that he plays his best when he’s on ball. If you think of him as a ruck, that means when he plays as a ruck, but I don’t think he sees it that way.

As an aside, I think the transition question is at least partially offset by the gains in marks between the arcs, as Taylor likes to put it.

 

[Deveraux]

If Darcy doesn't want out, then we keep both 100%. We are way too light on for rucks if Darcy goes. We're definitely not at the point in our trajectory where it's a good thing if Reidy comes in for an injured Jackson, that would be a disaster.

700k isn't a huge contract these days, especially with the reported elite management of TPP Freo have acheived. I can't see Darcy demanding more either due to his unfortunate history no matter his formline.

Bringing in a half decent backup might cost 4-500k, and with just a couple hundy extra for big Darc it's a no-brainer for me.

We've seen they can both work, and I can only see it getting better. Jackson has proved he is a threat ANYWHERE.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Like, this is it. All this blather about 1.7mill of salary cap in the ruck stocks is exactly that, if Jackson is not in actual fact a ruck but a part-time midfielder. And all the talk about mobile ruckman is undone when you’ve got 1) a dominant tap ruckmen bypassing oppo mids in the first place, and 2) a mobile ruckman also already at the scene.

All that crap about Jackson wanting to be the number 1 ruck is weird reading of every comments I’ve seen him make on the question., where he’s saying that he plays his best when he’s on ball. If you think of him as a ruck, that means when he plays as a ruck, but I don’t think he sees it that way.

As an aside, I think the transition question is at least partially offset by the gains in marks between the arcs, as Taylor likes to put it.

I think the main problem with the transition thing is you need to start planning a lot around it. By end of season, I would be extremely interested in some sort of data pull from Champion data (can you put questions to Hoyne, genuine question?) on our transition defense when more than two of Jackson, Darcy, Ras and Fyfe are on the field. I have a feeling it would be beyond abysmal (though I would expect half fit Darcy and Fyfe are a very large part of that problem).

Possibly those last two names arent even at the club next year anyway and it resolves itself but if Darcy is traded, my guess would be that the club has seen some horrific numbers for transition.

As Dockeroo repeatedly points out though, it's all irrelevant if Darcy requests a trade (which is completely fair and reasonable). So long as you can find SOMEONE to plonk at Peel, you pull that trigger every time then

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Bringing in a half decent backup might cost 4-500k, and with just a couple hundy extra for big Darc it's a no-brainer for me.

If there is an AFL back-up ruck on more than 400k, that list manager should be fired on the spot. The only one I can think of where that's remotely possible is Carlton, and well, that list manager should be fired on the spot...

We've seen they can both work, and I can only see it getting better. Jackson has proved he is a threat ANYWHERE.

This one in particular I have to be strong on. Luke Jackson is our best player. He just had the highest rated performance by a Freo player of all time. He can be a threat anywhere, he can be the best player in the comp playing purely on the ball and realistically, mainly as a ruck

 

[Deveraux]

If there is an AFL back-up ruck on more than 400k, that list manager should be fired on the spot. The only one I can think of where that's remotely possible is Carlton, and well, that list manager should be fired on the spot...

This one in particular I have to be strong on. Luke Jackson is our best player. He just had the highest rated performance by a Freo player of all time. He can be a threat anywhere, he can be the best player in the comp playing purely on the ball and realistically, mainly as a ruck

If you want better than Reidy, it may well be that price tag so what's the point.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

If you want better than Reidy, it may well be that price tag so what's the point.

I'm not convinced it would be. Unless you're a first round / top 10 pick, anyone outside the best 22 is on basically the base wage. If not every other club, certainly Freo give everyone a pittance. Low enough for Acres to go to Carlton on close to base AFL wage and Drizzy of all people to seriously consider leaving. Small fee to get them here but you'd get a very decent improvement on Reidy for less than 300k, I'm sure of it.

 

[ignoramus]

If there is an AFL back-up ruck on more than 400k, that list manager should be fired on the spot. The only one I can think of where that's remotely possible is Carlton, and well, that list manager should be fired on the spot...

This one in particular I have to be strong on. Luke Jackson is our best player. He just had the highest rated performance by a Freo player of all time. He can be a threat anywhere, he can be the best player in the comp playing purely on the ball and realistically, mainly as a ruck

Let’s keep in mind it was against a debutant.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Let’s keep in mind it was against a debutant.

Yeah but we've had that disclaimer a lot and I've seen Jackson take the piss against a lot of genuine rucks now when playing solo. I'm at the point with Jackson now where he basically annihilates the bottom 9 first rucks in the comp then gets coaches votes or stops the other bloke getting coaches votes against all bar Witts and Xerri who are just too big / physical for him.

He's also completely untagable when playing solo ruck, something which might become more and more important in the next few years.

I dont know, I just remember the games this year alone against Dogs (before injury), GWS, Port and Essendon and I think it's getting really hard to justify anything other than Jackson playing as the sole ruck 90% of the games

 

[Dockeroo]

If there is an AFL back-up ruck on more than 400k, that list manager should be fired on the spot. The only one I can think of where that's remotely possible is Carlton, and well, that list manager should be fired on the spot...

This one in particular I have to be strong on. Luke Jackson is our best player. He just had the highest rated performance by a Freo player of all time. He can be a threat anywhere, he can be the best player in the comp playing purely on the ball and realistically, mainly as a ruck

Not so sure about this nowadays.
What is say, Soldo at Port getting, or Jordan Sweet? I reckon soldo is on more than you might think.

Pittonet at Carlton would be another interesting one to know his salary though I guess sometimes he plays with TDK in the same side so not really true reserve.
Reeves at the Hawks would be another one.
Yeah I don’t know. Think we’ll need to pay $350k at least per year to get anyone better than Reidy across

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Not so sure about this nowadays.
What is say, Soldo at Port getting, or Jordan Sweet? I reckon soldo is on more than you might think.

Pittonet at Carlton would be another interesting one to know his salary though I guess sometimes he plays with TDK in the same side so not really true reserve.
Reeves at the Hawks would be another one.
Yeah I don’t know. Think we’ll need to pay $350k at least per year to get anyone better than Reidy across

It probably needs a proper disclaimer that its a genuine back-up, not someone fighting for a best 22 spot or expectations fighting for it. Sweet and Soldo thought they were going to be best 22 when they headed over, same with Pittonet.

 

[anchor man]

So you are saying that all we need to do is train Jackson in how to apply the cross face chicken wing then we're good to trade Darcy?

Never been in favour of trafing Darcy. Never, still not.
All I am saying is, there are no rules in ruck contests.

 

[eastfreo75]

In: Dudley and Darcy

Out: Aish and Banfield.

Not sure who the sub would be.

 

[332docker]

Let’s keep in mind it was against a debutant.

This whole thing is so fingernail deep analysis

If we can afford them both just stick with current structure

Darcy has won our b&f before and is clearly invested in getting his body right finally

 

[Cesoir]

I am in the keep Darcy camp. We have a unicorn who can pretty much play every position on the field, and people want to make him our sole first ruck? He can certainly fulfil that role against most of the rucks in the competition, but do we want him to? Do we want him being jumped into and banged around week after week by the oppositions' biggest players? I wonder what his longevity will be like - I remember a time when Darcy was rarely injured, in fact he even won a Doig. The rigours of leading the ruck every week certainly wore him down and I think Jacko could well suffer the same fate - then we are left with a "journeyman" ruck as our primary ruck.

I want to see Jacko in the ruck, in the midfield when Darcy is rucking and in the forward line at times too. I'd love to see him have a stint as the skinny side winger where he could provide a bail out kick for the defenders.

Jackson in the ruck is superb. Jackson as a big bodied midfielder is superb. I'm hoping he can also be superb in the forward line.

As our primary ruck he gives us one trick and as he showed last week that can be a hell of a trick. But playing that role week after week teams WILL target him physically and at some point he WILL get injuries. The very best coaches will prepare for Jackson as ruck knowing he is our only option.

Having Darcy as our lead ruck allows us the flexibility to play Jacko in multiple positions (including ruck) and leaves opposition coaches with the headache of wondering what our mix will be week to week. It should also prolong Jacko's playing career so he can unicorn happily ever after.

 

[Clems Knee]

I am in the keep Darcy camp. We have a unicorn who can pretty much play every position on the field, and people want to make him our sole first ruck? He can certainly fulfil that role against most of the rucks in the competition, but do we want him to? Do we want him being jumped into and banged around week after week by the oppositions' biggest players? I wonder what his longevity will be like - I remember a time when Darcy was rarely injured, in fact he even won a Doig. The rigours of leading the ruck every week certainly wore him down and I think Jacko could well suffer the same fate - then we are left with a "journeyman" ruck as our primary ruck.

I want to see Jacko in the ruck, in the midfield when Darcy is rucking and in the forward line at times too. I'd love to see him have a stint as the skinny side winger where he could provide a bail out kick for the defenders.

Jackson in the ruck is superb. Jackson as a big bodied midfielder is superb. I'm hoping he can also be superb in the forward line.

As our primary ruck he gives us one trick and as he showed last week that can be a hell of a trick. But playing that role week after week teams WILL target him physically and at some point he WILL get injuries. The very best coaches will prepare for Jackson as ruck knowing he is our only option.

Having Darcy as our lead ruck allows us the flexibility to play Jacko in multiple positions (including ruck) and leaves opposition coaches with the headache of wondering what our mix will be week to week. It should also prolong Jacko's playing career so he can unicorn happily ever after.

Nailed it.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Ill change it again then. For those adamant on keeping Darcy, do you keep him if he asks for a trade?

 

[PowerToThePurpl]

Jackson rightfully mauls a 19 year old debutant with no support ruck and every media outlet spins it into a negative - has there been any reporting on how Xerri soundfully beat Luke in the ruck the week before and was then towelled by Darcy? Not at all, because it doesn’t get clicks, doesn’t make it any less infuriating.

We don’t see Jackson as solely a number 1 ruck. He COULD be that and he can be a very good one, but the clubs thinking bigger - 200cm midfielder who can take his direct opponent forward AND pinch in the ruck while our actual ruck takes a break. Any opposition ruckmen would be truly ****ed against that combo.

As for the changes; it’ll likely be Darcy and Moose/McDonald for Draper and someone (probably Aish). Fyfe back to sub. I’d want to bring in Dudley for Banfield but can’t see it happening.

 

[332docker]

Ill change it again then. For those adamant on keeping Darcy, do you keep him if he asks for a trade?

Yep

There was a guy called kossi who apparently was asking for a trade… then he signed on for a record contract

Think this should go to another thread - like 2026 list management

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