Coach Did Hinkley underperform as Power coach?

[The Hobo]

In 2004 Port was missing it's first choice midfield from the previous season (Primus, Francou, Steevns).

Ken was coach for a dozen years, developing depth and assisting with list management needs is part of his job and it sounds like it was never done properly.

We got Aliir Aliir in 2021 to address KPD height issues, and did worse, utterly embarrased in the most advvantageous prelim ever.

Sure - but look at the midfield that played.

Lade/Brogan, James, SBurgoyne, Carr, Cornes, Cassisi etc. Very good replacements and highlights the depth that was in the squad.

Then look at who comes in under Ken when someone is injured.

That's the whole point and difference.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Ken's never had a list good enough to win it. Overachieved getting finals regularly and unfairly underappreciated by Port fans.

Stuck in the SANFL past with the motto of 'existing to win premierships'. This is the AFL fellas, clubs are lucky to make GF's let alone dominate them for sustained periods. Expectations really should be tempered.

 

[longdonkey]

Ken's never had a list good enough to win it. Overachieved getting finals regularly and unfairly underappreciated by Port fans.

Stuck in the SANFL past with the motto of 'existing to win premierships'. This is the AFL fellas, clubs are lucky to make GF's let alone dominate them for sustained periods. Expectations really should be tempered.

Certainly needed to lower expectations with Hinkley, standards too.

Who let Hobo out of his cage. Don't need him on the main board agreeing with the handbaggers.

 

[Mr MysteryGuest]

Brisbane had a few choke years, Fagan is at this stage similar to Choco, and as great as Choco winning the flag was, that era of Port absolutely should have gotten another one.

well, we're talking about Hinkley era, not choco.

 

[edgie]

Sure - but look at the midfield that played.

Lade/Brogan, James, SBurgoyne, Carr, Cornes, Cassisi etc. Very good replacements and highlights the depth that was in the squad.

Then look at who comes in under Ken when someone is injured.

That's the whole point and difference.

The difference is also that Choco got his best players delivering when it matters.

Ken cannot.

Boak, Butters, Rozee, Dixon, Ryder, Westhoff, Schulz, Hartlett etc didn't often deliver in finals compared to their regular season.

 

[edgie]

well, we're talking about Hinkley era, not choco.

Do you think Choco was a great coach?

 

[edgie]

Ken's never had a list good enough to win it. Overachieved getting finals regularly and unfairly underappreciated by Port fans.

Stuck in the SANFL past with the motto of 'existing to win premierships'. This is the AFL fellas, clubs are lucky to make GF's let alone dominate them for sustained periods. Expectations really should be tempered.

Would you swap him for Scott?

 

[edgie]

number of clubs is irrelevant for games coached without a GF appearance

It is absolutely relevant. At some point these guys have been let go because their first club has determined they aren't up to it.

That has never happened with Ken until after the fact, after the record was achieved.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Would you swap him for Scott?

No. scott is arguably our best ever coach.

But I'd happily have him as a senior assistant or GM of Footy etc.

 

[Lagooner]

Ken's never had a list good enough to win it. Overachieved getting finals regularly and unfairly underappreciated by Port fans.

Stuck in the SANFL past with the motto of 'existing to win premierships'. This is the AFL fellas, clubs are lucky to make GF's let alone dominate them for sustained periods. Expectations really should be tempered.

During Ken’s tenure 13 out of the 18 clubs have made the Grand Final, so you really don’t have to be that lucky to make it over a long enough period of time. And time is something that Ken has had the luxury of more than any other unsuccessful coach in the history of the game.

He’s been given 13 years and three different lists with 100 plus players at his disposal and still hasn’t been close to getting the job done. Enough already with the excuses.

 

[Mr Meow]

The difference is also that Choco got his best players delivering when it matters.

Ken cannot.

Boak, Butters, Rozee, Dixon, Ryder, Westhoff, Schulz, Hartlett etc didn't often deliver in finals compared to their regular season.

Choco did in 2004, with Brisbane at the end of their era.

You can't exactly say his other finals campaigns were big successes. Plus he had better, deeper lists to work with than Hinkley.

 

[Mr Meow]

During Ken’s tenure 13 out of the 18 clubs have made the Grand Final, so you really don’t have to be that lucky to make it over a long enough period of time. And time is something that Ken has had the luxury of more than any other unsuccessful coach in the history of the game.

He’s been given 13 years and three different lists with 100 plus players at his disposal and still hasn’t been close to getting the job done. Enough already with the excuses.

A couple of lucky bounces of the ball and Hinkley would've coached Port to grand finals in 2014 and 2020. That's how close those prelims were - against dynasty sides, no less.

 

[Mr MysteryGuest]

Do you think Choco was a great coach?

I’m sure he was pretty good, always seemed well respected by his players, even if his media persona made him come off as a smug pick.

 

[Lagooner]

A couple of lucky bounces of the ball and Hinkley would've coached Port to grand finals in 2014 and 2020. That's how close those prelims were - against dynasty sides, no less.

Could’ve. Would’ve. Should’ve.

Didn’t.

Clarkson lost the 2011 prelim by 3 points and bounced back to win 3 subsequent flags in a row.

Hinkley lost the 2014 prelim by 3 points and then made a solitary elimination final loss the high water mark of his next 5 years. The 2020 prelim loss was followed up by being absolutely annihilated in almost every finals outing since.

Hinkley devised a reliable gameplan to consistently beat the shit teams but it was predictable and the better teams practically laughed at it. This has been proven in not only finals but also his poor regular season record against top 8 teams, over an EXTREMELY long period of time.

He’s just not good enough.

 

[Mr Meow]

Could’ve. Would’ve. Should’ve.

Didn’t.

Clarkson lost the 2011 prelim by 3 points and bounced back to win 3 subsequent flags in a row.

Hinkley lost the 2014 prelim by 3 points and then made a solitary elimination final loss the high water mark of his next 5 years. The 2020 prelim loss was followed up by being absolutely annihilated in almost every finals outing since.

Hinkley devised a reliable gameplan to consistently beat the shit teams but it was predictable and the better teams practically laughed at it. This has been proven in not only finals but also his poor regular season record against top 8 teams, over an EXTREMELY long period of time.

He’s just not good enough.

There's no doubting that his other finals series were poor, although the lists were around 5th or 6th best in the comp anyway. I'm just saying he lead two decent but not outstanding teams incredibly close to knocking out dynasty sides. Basically Ross Lyon but he happened to face them in prelims. Richmond were beaten in a knock-out final just once 2017-2020, while Hawthorn weren't at all 2013-2015. You could say his teams and finals performances peaked at unlucky times.

Like Lyon now, I think it's clear senior coaching is behind Hinkley and its best for all parties to move on. But the retrospective shit kicking is a bit much. After getting that close in 2020 he deserved a couple more shots given he was leading Port to top 4 spots. He and the team failed. It happens.

 

[powerrrrrrrrrrrr]

It’s funny how our list apparently isn’t good enough yet the teams we eventually lost to in finals, on every occasion we were somehow good enough to beat them during the season.

2020: beat Tigers. Lost to them in prelim.
2021: beat the dogs. Get hammered by them in the prelim.
2023: beat the Giants. Lose the semi.
2024: beat both Geelong and Swans. Lose to both in finals.
2017: beat WCE, lose to them in the final.
2014: beat the hawks. Lost the prelim.

It’s a clear pattern which also clearly suggests the list is good enough. We consistently (every year), beat the team during the season (sometimes a matter of weeks apart), yet every time then lose to that same team under finals pressure.

During the season, we’re 7-0. Finals, we’re 0-7.

A number of these games were also away wins yet then lose at home so it’s not just a ground advantage difference either.

The list hasn’t changed but something has. It shows we either aren’t mentally prepared for finals or, our game plan doesn’t stand up come finals. Both of which are coaching issues.

The list has been fine.

 

[Papa G]

I love this "his lists weren't good enough" revisonist reinterpretation of history, particularly from the Handbagger Mafia. The 2021 side that got embarrasingly blown off the park, at home, against the travelling Wilbury Bulldogs contained no less than 9 All Australians and a further 2 that had made the 40 list. So half the 22 at some point were considered in the top 40 players in the land. Shit list indeed.

 

[Lagooner]

I love this "his lists weren't good enough" revisonist reinterpretation of history, particularly from the Handbagger Mafia. The 2021 side that got embarrasingly blown off the park, at home, against the travelling Wilbury Bulldogs contained no less than 9 All Australians and a further 2 that had made the 40 list. So half the 22 at some point were considered in the top 40 players in the land. Shit list indeed.

Including that year’s Brownlow Medalist.

He had 100 players churn through what was essentially the same gameplan for 10 years. At some point you need to stop blaming the players and concede that it’s the system that doesn’t work.

 

[Enviable Tradition]

I thought it was funny, a coach with a sense of humour.
Good on him.

Easy to say when it's not your club getting embarrassed.

 

[Mop]

I'll be really interested to see how Ken Hinkley goes at another club.
I think he's both a good coach and one who has underachieved. Maybe not by winning it, but not qualifying for a GF. That was probably his pass mark.

I think if Kenny H ends up somewhere like Fremantle, perhaps he'll get it right. They're in a similar boat to Port but are underachieving with a good but not perfect list. I fully expect Longmuir will be out at seasons end, to me it seems like the most natural fit there is tbh.

Shame too, I like Hinkley.

 

[Enviable Tradition]

He has outperformed relative to what Port was when he took over. That’s the only way you can look at it. How many coaches take over basket cases like port were and take them way up the ladder and maintain that dominance over years.

The fact that his recruitment department could only get him C and B grade gap fillers is on the recruitment team. And despite this Kenny still got Port into finals.

Many clubs including Brisbane were worse more recently than Port and have bounced back to do better than Port did under Kenny.

He hasn't out performed them.

2012 is a tired old excuse.

 

[Elixuh]

Many clubs including Brisbane were worse more recently than Port and have bounced back to do better than Port did under Kenny.

He hasn't out performed them.

2012 is a tired old excuse.

One issue is the team never really bottomed out like Brisbane did. You had a mini rebuild in which you drafted well but then there were gaps in the squad that had to be filled and which were filled with average to very average talent. Kenny has done well with what he’s had at his disposal.

 

[Enviable Tradition]

280 odd games without a grand final appearance. Clearly in the eyes of the Port board he hasn't underperformed

Bottom 4 side now and still won't get the sack is mind blowing.

419 games as an AFL player/senior coach without a premiership.

It's quite a feat.

 

[Enviable Tradition]

One issue is the team never really bottomed out like Brisbane did. You had a mini rebuild in which you drafted well but then there were gaps in the squad that had to be filled and which were filled with average to very average talent. Kenny has done well with what he’s had at his disposal.

Righto

 

[The Hobo]

The difference is also that Choco got his best players delivering when it matters.

Ken cannot.

Boak, Butters, Rozee, Dixon, Ryder, Westhoff, Schulz, Hartlett etc didn't often deliver in finals compared to their regular season.

There's not one team that has not had some absolutely elite players over the last 15 years. And when you put them in a list in that way, you may be sitting there wondering how on earth they haven't won a premiership. We can rattle off all the good players we've had over the years - but so can every other club.

I strongly believe it's not the strongest players that cost teams premierships - it's the weaker players. The depth players.