List Mgmt. 2025 List Management discussion

[Dr Spaceman]

This is actually the best way to do it.

It shrinks like the old twisties packets used to.

Then you can put it on a keyring.

Or you can Red Symons the end product if you’re not particularly well endowed.

 

[Diehard Saint]

What do you want them to do? Create the last half of the fixture after round 10?

Sometimes the matchups aren't going to create an even game. Nothing wrong with that.

Well it might stop Carlton getting all the Thursday night games.

 

[saintbill]

Neale kicked 5 goals

Another one Cats have plucked from nowhere.

We have got to find ourselves a forward that can consistently take a contested mark. It's so important.

I watched the Crows v Dogs game yesterday. There were 5 forwards on the ground substantially better then Max King. In 1 game of footy! They were all fantastic. Darcy, Naughton, Thilthorpe, Fogarty and Walker.

King is miles off these blokes even when fit. Having watched a bit of Ben King lately I am reminded why Max is so frustrating. They play the same, albeit I think Ben is even lazier. Max has no second efforts, is a poor contested mark, and just doesn't lead well. He is not built to be a focal point.

As such, I would actually be prioritising a key forward with our first pick.

Relying on an injury prone overrated tall who plays like a flanker, ain't it.

We need somebody who can actually lead and mark the ball and play like a traditional forward.

 

[jimmytigs]

I just want to put it out there that we would put a tremendous score on both Essendon and Richmond.. our ‘rebuild’ can’t be doing that bad

right now is the time to decide if we want pick 4-6,or whether we want to be patted on the head like good little soldiers with pick 15 or so

 

[sammm]

Yes they still have their make up game which was postponed at the start of the season. V the Suns.

Sqiggle prediction below is probably our best case scenario now if you priority is Draft Pick Order.

We could well win more games that the 3 predicted below.

Dees, Kangas, Tigers and Dons are the 4 games that we are most likely to have wins in. With the Swans game the next hardest.

View attachment 2366370

I had forgotten about that. will they make up the game. I

 

[Dr Spaceman]

right now is the time to decide if we want pick 4-6,or whether we want to be patted on the head like good little soldiers with pick 15 or so

Essendon have something like 22 injured players, including 2 more from last night.

If we want to tank and lose to them it won’t be enough to just play poorly. We’ll have to get Wilkes, Hammer, Nas and co to actually put the ball through their sticks to enable them to put up a winning score.

 

[Cleanupsoup]

Another one Cats have plucked from nowhere.

We have got to find ourselves a forward that can consistently take a contested mark. It's so important.

I watched the Crows v Dogs game yesterday. There were 5 forwards on the ground substantially better then Max King. In 1 game of footy! They were all fantastic. Darcy, Naughton, Thilthorpe, Fogarty and Walker.

King is miles off these blokes even when fit. Having watched a bit of Ben King lately I am reminded why Max is so frustrating. They play the same, albeit I think Ben is even lazier. Max has no second efforts, is a poor contested mark, and just doesn't lead well. He is not built to be a focal point.

As such, I would actually be prioritising a key forward with our first pick.

Relying on an injury prone overrated tall who plays like a flanker, ain't it.

We need somebody who can actually lead and mark the ball and play like a traditional forward.

People have clearly memory holed themselves in regards to King and how he plays.

Even with injuries he has been top 20 in average contested marks each year since 2021 and was top 5 for average shots at goal a game in 2022 and 2023. All while playing with what we have all agreed is an underwhelming supporting cast in the forward line, and one of the worst midfields in the league.

There's a lot of issues with Max right now, and due to constant injuries we don't actually know how he's developing, but you haven't rewatched any games from when he was healthy recently and it shows.

 

[L_W_P]

Not too stressed if our pick is 7th or 13th TBH. My issues with the draft are the restrictions the FS/NGA systems impose on access to talent.

Picking higher up doesn't mean you get the better players.

Look at our recent history.

2021: NWM #11. Some really good players ahead of him but outside of Finn Callaghan I don't think there's an automatic 'Yes' in terms of a swap.

2022: Pou #10. Dodged a few pretty poor players here. Not sure id swap him for our almost NGA kid in Cam Mackenzie either, but the issue there is we could have grabbed CMac for basically nothing and taken and extra first into 2023 or traded back into 2022.

2023: Wilson #18. Not too many taken just before him that you'd be keen on TBH. Windsor and Sanders are fine. O'Sullivan's had his moments. Curtain and Caddy looking the best ATM.

Picking earlier just means you have more options. The biggest factor for success is how you develop your talent. A brilliant development system can make up for poor recruiting but a brilliant recruiter cannot make up for shitty development and coaching.

 

[jimmytigs]

Essendon have something like 22 injured players, including 2 more from last night.

If we want to tank and lose to them it won’t be enough to just play poorly. We’ll have to get Wilkes, Hammer, Nas and co to actually put the ball through their sticks to enable them to put up a winning score.

i think we are capable,get collard boxshall said barrat some games,let jones audition for another club,roma full forward with heath and boyd rucking,sincs steele macrae naz to all get managed for a game against anyone but cats and giants,for oconnell mclennan etc(only if naz agrees,he makes all those decisions till he is signed)& do what we did against the hawks,play proper football till we get inside 50,then kick it to a contest,under no circumstances take a shot for goal on the run,im reasonably certain after watching that last week that we are already tanking,today will tell a bit more

 

[jimmytigs]

Picking higher up doesn't mean you get the better players.

it can mean all the top players from one position are all gone,as we found out last year

 

[Joffaboy]

Not too stressed if our pick is 7th or 13th TBH. My issues with the draft are the restrictions the FS/NGA systems impose on access to talent.

Picking higher up doesn't mean you get the better players.

Look at our recent history.

2021: NWM #11. Some really good players ahead of him but outside of Finn Callaghan I don't think there's an automatic 'Yes' in terms of a swap.

2022: Pou #10. Dodged a few pretty poor players here. Not sure id swap him for our almost NGA kid in Cam Mackenzie either, but the issue there is we could have grabbed CMac for basically nothing and taken and extra first into 2023 or traded back into 2022.

2023: Wilson #18. Not too many taken just before him that you'd be keen on TBH. Windsor and Sanders are fine. O'Sullivan's had his moments. Curtain and Caddy looking the best ATM.

Picking earlier just means you have more options. The biggest factor for success is how you develop your talent. A brilliant development system can make up for poor recruiting but a brilliant recruiter cannot make up for shitty development and coaching.

Can go both ways. Sometimes a later pick is a free throw at the stumps. Look at some players, maybe a reach at top 5 like Bailey Smith, or Butters. I am sure Freo are happy with Murphy Reid.
Other teams complaining about Tauru. Like Reid for us, Tauru a bit of a reach maybe for the clubs before us, and we had two picks in a row, we lucked out......

But.... multiple top 5 picks every year where those players are unavailable to 17 other teams gives that club unprecedented opportunity to warehouse incredible depth in talent at the expense of the equality of the competition.
No fan of Bombers or Carlton but how are they supposed to rebuild when they don't have access to multiple players over multiple years.
North have tried to build through the draft but had to be humiliated for 5 seasons to get picks 1 and 2 so they could at least have access to top talent. And after 5 seasons are still third last.

There is a two tier competition, look at the ladder. Constructed by the AFL.

There will be more games like Richmond v Essendon as talent is concentrated at one end and diluted at the other as Tassie comes in.
My wife last night said why don't the AFL just get the top 6 to play every weekend as this is all they care about.

 

[stfan]

Not too stressed if our pick is 7th or 13th TBH. My issues with the draft are the restrictions the FS/NGA systems impose on access to talent.

Picking higher up doesn't mean you get the better players.

Look at our recent history.

2021: NWM #11. Some really good players ahead of him but outside of Finn Callaghan I don't think there's an automatic 'Yes' in terms of a swap.

2022: Pou #10. Dodged a few pretty poor players here. Not sure id swap him for our almost NGA kid in Cam Mackenzie either, but the issue there is we could have grabbed CMac for basically nothing and taken and extra first into 2023 or traded back into 2022.

2023: Wilson #18. Not too many taken just before him that you'd be keen on TBH. Windsor and Sanders are fine. O'Sullivan's had his moments. Curtain and Caddy looking the best ATM.

Picking earlier just means you have more options. The biggest factor for success is how you develop your talent. A brilliant development system can make up for poor recruiting but a brilliant recruiter cannot make up for shitty development and coaching.

Though equally just after them, slim pickings. So slide another pick or two in those three years and our situation may not look as rosey.

We seem to have chosen well in recent drafts. But also the earlier the pick, the better the chance that we get a good player, and more crucially at present that we get the genuine very good inside mid that we all know we need to elevate the young midfield group that we already have.



I have thought for a while that based on reasonable run home we would not finish in the bottom four and so would not get the pick 5 that some thought we might. Hopefully though our pick as used will be a single digit one. Blues being in freefall coudl sabotage that.

 

[g_TRAIN]

Another one Cats have plucked from nowhere.

We have got to find ourselves a forward that can consistently take a contested mark. It's so important.

I watched the Crows v Dogs game yesterday. There were 5 forwards on the ground substantially better then Max King. In 1 game of footy! They were all fantastic. Darcy, Naughton, Thilthorpe, Fogarty and Walker.

King is miles off these blokes even when fit. Having watched a bit of Ben King lately I am reminded why Max is so frustrating. They play the same, albeit I think Ben is even lazier. Max has no second efforts, is a poor contested mark, and just doesn't lead well. He is not built to be a focal point.

As such, I would actually be prioritising a key forward with our first pick.

Relying on an injury prone overrated tall who plays like a flanker, ain't it.

We need somebody who can actually lead and mark the ball and play like a traditional forward.

Do you ever even both to research or just shoot from the hip every time?

Max is ranked elite for contested marks, completely the opposite of his brother.

He's has matches where he's taken 8 and 6 contested marks. (Prior to this year Ben had never taken more than 3 in a game)

 

[goodie23]

So where are we getting this late first rounder for Leek Aleer from?

Might just have to trade Marshall or Steele. But considering our lack of height and lack of midfield power I’d be hesitant to do either.

Could be bringing back the future second special - which worked out once for us in all our attempts.

 

[saintderby]

Another one Cats have plucked from nowhere.

We have got to find ourselves a forward that can consistently take a contested mark. It's so important.

I watched the Crows v Dogs game yesterday. There were 5 forwards on the ground substantially better then Max King. In 1 game of footy! They were all fantastic. Darcy, Naughton, Thilthorpe, Fogarty and Walker.

King is miles off these blokes even when fit. Having watched a bit of Ben King lately I am reminded why Max is so frustrating. They play the same, albeit I think Ben is even lazier. Max has no second efforts, is a poor contested mark, and just doesn't lead well. He is not built to be a focal point.

As such, I would actually be prioritising a key forward with our first pick.

Relying on an injury prone overrated tall who plays like a flanker, ain't it.

We need somebody who can actually lead and mark the ball and play like a traditional forward.

Just had a look at the majority of your past posts - In fact based on the posts I would even suggest you support another team and are a troll.

 

[stfan]

So where are we getting this late first rounder for Leek Aleer from?

I believe that second round would be the maximum for Aleer based on his record to date at GWS.

 

[stfan]

right now is the time to decide if we want pick 4-6,

Pick 4 is a pipedream. Especially once you factor in the Allen FA Compo.

 

[Joffaboy]

Just had a look at the majority of your past posts - In fact based on the posts I would even suggest you support another team and are a troll.

saintbill is no troll. I don't agree with this assessment, however much of what he posts is fair enough.
You have 9 posts, are you sure you aren't the troll?

 

[SaintsofSteel]

Another one Cats have plucked from nowhere.

We have got to find ourselves a forward that can consistently take a contested mark. It's so important.

I watched the Crows v Dogs game yesterday. There were 5 forwards on the ground substantially better then Max King. In 1 game of footy! They were all fantastic. Darcy, Naughton, Thilthorpe, Fogarty and Walker.

King is miles off these blokes even when fit. Having watched a bit of Ben King lately I am reminded why Max is so frustrating. They play the same, albeit I think Ben is even lazier. Max has no second efforts, is a poor contested mark, and just doesn't lead well. He is not built to be a focal point.

As such, I would actually be prioritising a key forward with our first pick.

Relying on an injury prone overrated tall who plays like a flanker, ain't it.

We need somebody who can actually lead and mark the ball and play like a traditional forward.

People don't like reading that their club saviour (champion) has flaws. I agree with you we have to move past relying on Max he is too unreliable. His injury is not just something that has occurred this year it has been his entire career apart from one solitary year.

If I was managing the list Id trade him rather than the talk of Marshall & Steele, if we really need picks to do our business.

There is no doubt he makes us better when fit and playing, but what does the future hold for Max and his body. We need to find another genuine tall forward option regardless.

 

[saintbill]

People have clearly memory holed themselves in regards to King and how he plays.

Even with injuries he has been top 20 in average contested marks each year since 2021 and was top 5 for average shots at goal a game in 2022 and 2023. All while playing with what we have all agreed is an underwhelming supporting cast in the forward line, and one of the worst midfields in the league.

There's a lot of issues with Max right now, and due to constant injuries we don't actually know how he's developing, but you haven't rewatched any games from when he was healthy recently and it shows.

I have been saying Max King is overated his whole career. This isn't something I have come up with whilst he is injured. You really have to watch Max live to understand why.

He just doesn't have a competitive streak. He quite literally stops after 1 effort and is always gassed. His brother is exactly the same.

He also has poor forward craft. Just doesn't do basics well. Doesn't lead, just stands there like a statue asking the ball to be kicked on his head, despite being unable to outbody anybody. Its bizarre the way he plays, he just doesn't play to his strengths.

A fully fit King might be somewhere in the 10-15 range for best big forward in the comp. Good, but miles off the better guys.

We need to draft another forward. King will never be somebody we can rely on as he doesn't even offer consistency of effort.

 

[Cleanupsoup]

I have been saying Max King is overated his whole career. This isn't something I have come up with whilst he is injured. You really have to watch Max live to understand why.

He just doesn't have a competitive streak. He quite literally stops after 1 effort and is always gassed. His brother is exactly the same.

He also has poor forward craft. Just doesn't do basics well. Doesn't lead, just stands there like a statue asking the ball to be kicked on his head, despite being unable to outbody anybody. Its bizarre the way he plays, he just doesn't play to his strengths.

A fully fit King might be somewhere in the 10-15 range for best big forward in the comp. Good, but miles off the better guys.

We need to draft another forward. King will never be somebody we can rely on as he doesn't even offer consistency of effort.

That's a pretty big goal post shift from your earlier post. We obviously watch for different things live, as I've always thought Max ground ball work has been a point of difference with other key forwards. He still doesn't lead well though.

What I don't really understand is how having a top 15 player in a position is bad? And how you think you can just draft a top 10 key forward that easily? There are no guarantees in the draft, and teams have won premierships with forwards a lot worse than Max King

 

[Yawkey way]

I can no longer do this as I turfed my microwave since it kinda broke. Can put it in an oven though, also, more space!

What do you drink with an oven baked membership, white or red ?.

 

[saintbill]

That's a pretty big goal post shift from your earlier post. We obviously watch for different things live, as I've always thought Max ground ball work has been a point of difference with other key forwards. He still doesn't lead well though.

What I don't really understand is how having a top 15 player in a position is bad? And how you think you can just draft a top 10 key forward that easily? There are no guarantees in the draft, and teams have won premierships with forwards a lot worse than Max King

Nobody said finding another top key forward prospect would be easy, I just think it should be a priority even more so that securing a mid.

If we have a top 6-7 pick this year, there is every chance the best forward from this years draft is available.

We need a top talent coming through for 3-4 years time when we should be peaking.

I like Owens/Sharman, but they are more third tall types.

Watching Adelaides forward line function yesterday was a thing of beauty.

 

[saintbill]

Just had a look at the majority of your past posts - In fact based on the posts I would even suggest you support another team and are a troll.

Sorry are u Max's mummy?

 

[saintbill]

Do you ever even both to research or just shoot from the hip every time?

Max is ranked elite for contested marks, completely the opposite of his brother.

He's has matches where he's taken 8 and 6 contested marks. (Prior to this year Ben had never taken more than 3 in a game)

View attachment 2366784

He was ranked 3rd last for opposition marks against last year. In the whole comp

He was getting torched in one on ones all year. Perhaps his shoulder played a part, but why would you then not get on your bike and start leading?

2 contested marks a game when your whole game is based on having the ball kicked on your head doesn't really excite me. Sorry. If that is elite, then marking really is dead.