Autopsy Cats lose to GWS* AFL trust fund babies by 26 points.

[joe444]

Ok thanks. Maybe that's the third lowest then? You had us v WC at 276 which was lower than 277.

I was at the Gabba game and it had a very similar feel to yesterday. Good early and then basically a warm down for 3 quarters.

I didn't see the Carlton game but thought maybe we hit a bit of a low there as well.

Here you go ...

 

[Pure_Ownage]

We get exposed the exact same way, Brisbane killed us on transition aswell its a reality that makes me think when the whips are cracking we are just going to be making up the numbers regardless of a decent in season record.

Possibly. The only thing I will say is our game plan the way it is now doesnt suit long narrow grounds like GMHBA or engie
This is because the game ends up being played in narrower lanes and you need to be good at stoppages and clearance (which we arent). The wider grounds like the mcg will suit us better because they will create more space for guys like miers and Cameron to open up the field with kicks off the line which is where we look good when we can. The flip side of that is at a bigger ground like the G if we get smashed at clearances it may give the oppo even more space in their f50. But I wouldn't be judging us until we see the first final at the mcg.

 

[allrighty]

We were extremely poor after our initial 4 goal burst. All of our energy seemed to have been zapped and we were second to the ball for the remainder of the game. We didn't attack the contest with aggression and appeared to lack the energy to cover the ground.

Our small forwards need to be better at locking the ball inside 50. I recall hearing that we are one of the best sides at tackles inside 50?? You could have fooled me.
Too often we let teams run it out of their defensive 50 and we are caught out of position and generally scored against. Improving on locking the ball in would go a long way to mitigating the scores from turnovers. I'm not sure why our brigade of smalls can't quite seem to do it. They appear quick enough, is it how we structure?


I think we all need to relax a little with Stevens. You can't come to a final verdict on a player, either positive or negative, off 2 games. Both reactions are extreme. He needs to be judged on a body of work and with the run home against teams below us, I hope the club takes the opportunity to play him.
What other choice do we have? We need that type of player in the side, we may as well persist and see if he can grow and play his role.

It was super encouraging seeing Neale perform against a top side in a loss. He is slowly building up his consistency as we head into finals and could be a real rock for us in the forward line after these next 6 games. Against weaker sides, I hope he continues to improve his craft and grow in confidence.

We need Dangerfield back in the form he displayed earlier in the year.

Keep getting game time into Martin, I think he improves us.

I'm not holding my breath with Henry this season, but it would be a welcome surprise if he could recapture his 2024 form or at least show glimpses. He provides another marking target up forward to compliment Neale.
I know that he's never offered much else other than kicking goals, but last year, even if he was having a quiet game he would kick 2 or 3. Many a time, we would get easy goals (against the flow of play) just by him finishing off our hard work

Thankfully, we are still in a strong position to finish in the top 4 and continue to improve along the way. We've got work to do if we want to win the flag, but it can be done.

 

[Cataholic]

Agree we were outplayed but the first half of the first quarter the GWS players were given an inordinate amount of time to dispose of the ball when tackled on numerous occasion probably at least 4-6 free kicks not paid. Helped swing the momentum.

I understand what your saying, but it still left us 3.5 quarters to restore momentum but we were lacklustre and ran nearly 100km less than the Giants for the game.

Our main guys all had stinkers, and we either couldn't or wouldn't run with them.

The amount of free space and time they created was concerning, whilst we looked slow, pressured and less interested. As Scott noted, some of our defensive efforts were 'pretty slack'.

This was all exacerbated by our abysmal ball use and decision making. It was a really poor game from us, and we were comprehensively beaten, regardless of the umpiring.

 

[joe444]

PS. If the GPS was wrong, it was certainly operating for Gryan. Ran 16km - leading both sides.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Pies bottom 6 is pretty good.
We are a bit like Carlton- elite top end, but if you look at it unbiasedly, our lesser lights are very lesser and although we love our own, they are very middle of the road. Not insulting, just how it appears, and we should not be expecting Danger, JC, Blic to stand up week after week

Must disagree pies bottom 6 is awful.
Look at the other night (yes I know they rested players but still)
Steele (who wasn't even on a list 3 months ago)
Cox (the big Texan is finished but they play him when needed out of necessity)
Sullivan
Markov (Nearly 30 already delisted twice)
Frampton (glorified lamp post)
Plus probably someone like Allan

That's a really ordinary group.
But daicos x 2, Moore, Hill, Elliot, crisp are absolute top end and class vets like pendlebury, sidebottom, howe, mihocek etc contribute class.

By contrast Brisbane's bottom 6 is probably something like
Starcevich
Answerth
Lester
Wilmot
Fort/Day
And lashcroft

Which apart from the spud 2nd rucks cancelling each other out Brisbane's is way better.

I do agree we shouldn't be expecting our really old trio (danger, Stewart and Cameron plus blicavs to a degree) to shoot lights out every week given age which is why the middle aged guys (miers, Smith, Holmes, mannagh, close, stengle, zuthrie etc) have to (i give Jack Henry a pass due to injuries this year) or we won't win the flag and it will be because of that not our bottom 6 (which was my point).
While for example if I was coaching I'd prioritise say guys like knevitt and Clark or clohesy over say mullin and Martin it won't make much difference to a flag

 

[Pure_Ownage]

I understand what your saying, but it still left us 3.5 quarters to restore momentum but we were lacklustre and ran nearly 100km less than the Giants for the game.

Our main guys all had stinkers, and we either couldn't or wouldn't run with them.

The amount of free space and time they created was concerning, whilst we looked slow, pressured and less interested. As Scott noted, some of our defensive efforts were 'pretty slack'.

This was all exacerbated by our abysmal ball use and decision making. It was a really poor game from us, and we were comprehensively beaten, regardless of the umpiring.

I agree with this but I don't get the tackle rules now. They say they don't want guys dump tackled yet they encourage them to stand up in tackles for an eternity without making a call-this is stupid for player safety. Either blow the whistle straight away or actually pay holding the ball. There were a heap of these in the first quarter.

 

[bombersboy]

I understand what your saying, but it still left us 3.5 quarters to restore momentum but we were lacklustre and ran nearly 100km less than the Giants for the game.

Our main guys all had stinkers, and we either couldn't or wouldn't run with them.

The amount of free space and time they created was concerning, whilst we looked slow, pressured and less interested. As Scott noted, some of our defensive efforts were 'pretty slack'.

This was all exacerbated by our abysmal ball use and decision making. It was a really poor game from us, and we were comprehensively beaten, regardless of the umpiring.

We don't know if the virus that Smith had and kept him out last week affected other players. I'm probably clutching at straws but we don't know. It may be why Holmes was started at half back and seemed lethargic.

 

[Cataholic]

I agree with this but I don't get the tackle rules now. They say they don't want guys dump tackled yet they encourage them to stand up in tackles for an eternity without making a call-this is stupid for player safety. Either blow the whistle straight away or actually pay holding the ball. There were a heap of these in the first quarter.

For sure..... there's a whole separate discussion to be had about the quality of the umpiring and their interpretation of the rules.

Like you, there's much I don't understand any more, and I dare say there's many more in the same boat.

 

[cats_09]

We don't know if the virus that Smith had and kept him out last week affected other players. I'm probably clutching at straws but we don't know. It may be why Holmes was started at half back and seemed lethargic.

Earlier in the season we had both Stewart & Blicavs miss separate matches due to illness and it was pretty clear in their return a week later that there was some lingering effects - second week back was better from both guys

 

[Cataholic]

We don't know if the virus that Smith had and kept him out last week affected other players. I'm probably clutching at straws but we don't know. It may be why Holmes was started at half back and seemed lethargic.

No we don't, and yes, it's possible.

That said, I'm with Scott who essentially conceded after the game that the Giants were simply better.

They've won what.....7 of the last 9 games?

That's a trend. It suggests that they're simply a better team.

 

[Kobe Gryant]

Funny how we just don’t look quite right against the lions and giants of the world, but look great against the Tigers.

Think you've misconstrued what "not quite right" means.

It doesn't mean getting beaten by a more talented opponent. That's just footy.

It's for whatever reason, refusing to put your head over the ball, chase, tackle, or man up in transition.

Non negotiable aspects of the game that have nothing to do with talent, and we had more than a few standouts. At the ground, it was Holmes and Smith in particular for me.

Seeing as I'm just a guy on a forum, I don't tend to use terms like "gutless" "weak" or anything of the sort, so we'll go with "not quite right" - particularly with the talk of the flu going through the club.

 

[standupand]

I agree with this but I don't get the tackle rules now. They say they don't want guys dump tackled yet they encourage them to stand up in tackles for an eternity without making a call-this is stupid for player safety. Either blow the whistle straight away or actually pay holding the ball. There were a heap of these in the first quarter.

The one that really annoys me is when they say "knocked out in the tackle". That's still a free kick surely?? They had possession, prior opportunity and were dispossessed. Does it matter whether it was knocked out or whether it was dropped? I know it's technically maybe in the rules, but the rules are dumb if that's the case.

 

[Hinkley29]

They also made Holmes, Smith and Atkins look like traffic cones a lot of the time too, in fairness. It was like a training drill around stoppages and when they won the ball back.

Stevens in the mix likely took significant midfield minutes away from Max. As crazy as that sounds.

Max had his worst half of footy for a long time (first half yesterday) when he was playing out of position, because we introduced a player into the midfield rotations that cannot play anywhere else.

I am actually ok with it, because at some point you need to challenge the young guys and see if they have got it. But it certainly cost max and the team in a big way last night.

 

[Hinkley29]

I said it pregame. They dismantle us.
And we do it to others.

It might be time for a bbq at scarlo's place.

You also got upset pre game when someone suggested that you were discounting Geelong’s chances.

Can’t have it both ways.

 

[Generalissimo]

Seems Shark is in the clear for that clumsy spoil attempt.

https://www.afl.com.au/news/1364384/match-review-big-bomber-charged-with-rough-conduct

Good news for us, but I was sure it would at least get looked at.

 

[allrighty]

The one that really annoys me is when they say "knocked out in the tackle". That's still a free kick surely?? They had possession, prior opportunity and were dispossessed. Does it matter whether it was knocked out or whether it was dropped? I know it's technically maybe in the rules, but the rules are dumb if that's the case.

I think the umpiring is just a shitshow with especially the players bewildered at some of the calls in every game. The umpires get in the way so now players get fined and maybe suspended for contact with an umpire.

Even though Gil was an A1 one tosspot, and Demetriou before him an egotistical shill, the new guy is not a CEO's arseh*le.

 

[cats_09]

Seems Shark is in the clear for that clumsy spoil attempt.

https://www.afl.com.au/news/1364384/match-review-big-bomber-charged-with-rough-conduct

Good news for us, but I was sure it would at least get looked at.

I was expecting a fine at the minimum for Merrick

 

[Hinkley29]

I think the umpiring is just a shitshow with especially the players bewildered at some of the calls in every game. The umpires get in the way so now players get fined and maybe suspended for contact with an umpire.

Even though Gil was an A1 one tosspot, and Demetriou before him an egotistical shill, the new guy is not a CEO's arseh*le.

Just a couple of points here:

1. The rules of our game and (more importantly) the way the umpires are instructed to interpret the rules make it an impossible game to adjudicate. We have given them a job that is so difficult that it is inevitable that they will make mistakes.

2. Why would anyone want to be an umpire? The money is lousy, you get abused for trying to do your job, and there is no glory or praise when you do a good job. It is a miracle anyone would want to do it. And it is an even worse situation for those who umpire at lower levels where they are often physically in danger as well as getting no money and constantly abused. Which means that the next generation of umpires are in a crap situation. The number of people in the pathway to becoming an afl umpire must be ridiculously low.

Ask yourself the question, and be honest - would you EVER become an umpire? And do you think you could actually be good at it? For me, the answer would be an emphatic NO and NO.

 

[Generalissimo]

I was expecting a fine at the minimum for Merrick

I thought the same, flip a coin between a fine and a week suspension.

 

[Cataholic]

Just a couple of points here:

1. The rules of our game and (more importantly) the way the umpires are instructed to interpret the rules make it an impossible game to adjudicate. We have given them a job that is so difficult that it is inevitable that they will make mistakes.

2. Why would anyone want to be an umpire? The money is lousy, you get abused for trying to do your job, and there is no glory or praise when you do a good job. It is a miracle anyone would want to do it. And it is an even worse situation for those who umpire at lower levels where they are often physically in danger as well as getting no money and constantly abused. Which means that the next generation of umpires are in a crap situation. The number of people in the pathway to becoming an afl umpire must be ridiculously low.

Ask yourself the question, and be honest - would you EVER become an umpire? And do you think you could actually be good at it? For me, the answer would be an emphatic NO and NO.

You make some good points, but is it really that hard to adjudicate HTB with some sort of consistency, what constitutes 15m, or what the difference between a handball and a throw is?

 

[Mr Meow]

Stevens in the mix likely took significant midfield minutes away from Max. As crazy as that sounds.

Max had his worst half of footy for a long time (first half yesterday) when he was playing out of position, because we introduced a player into the midfield rotations that cannot play anywhere else.

I am actually ok with it, because at some point you need to challenge the young guys and see if they have got it. But it certainly cost max and the team in a big way last night.

I don't think it would have mattered if Stevens played well, because we rolled with 6 midfield rotations many times 2022-2024. Bruhn, Clark, Bowes, Blicavs, Knevitt, Parfitt have all been used in that same role. None 2023 onwards (Blicavs was incredible in 2022 but is better in other positions since) have excelled as inside mids, besides Bruhn and Bowes on occasion.

Max cost himself yesterday though. Lazy, insipid effort at half back and the same in midfield. He should have been an All Australian half back in 2024 and has excelled in 3 positions so far in his career, often rotating mid-match. There is absolutely no way I'm absolving him of responsibility for his stinker last night. If you aren't naive, neither will you.

No player from the VFL would have made an iota of difference yesterday.

 

[Hinkley29]

You make some good points, but is it really that hard to adjudicate HTB with some sort of consistency, what constitutes 15m, or what the difference between a handball and a throw is?

At the speed that the game is played at, the difference between and handball and a throw is often impossible to tell. Plus the afl instructs them that they want the ball to keep moving so to err on the side of letting throws go. So yes, it is very hard to adjudicate what is a throw and what is a handball.

And HTB is even worse. Is the player making legit attempt to dispose of the ball? How much “prior opportunity” is enough? Did they drop the ball or was it dislodged by the force of the tackle? Did they drag the ball in on the ground or did the opposition push the ball under them? Did they get rid of the ball quickly enough, or did they take too long when tackled? Even though there is no rule on how long is “too long”. The umpire has to read the players mind often to understand their “intention” as well as what they actually did.

So yes, it is really that hard to adjudicate HTB consistently.

 

[Cataholic]

At the speed that the game is played at, the difference between and handball and a throw is often impossible to tell. Plus the afl instructs them that they want the ball to keep moving so to err on the side of letting throws go. So yes, it is very hard to adjudicate what is a throw and what is a handball.

And HTB is even worse. Is the player making legit attempt to dispose of the ball? How much “prior opportunity” is enough? Did they drop the ball or was it dislodged by the force of the tackle? Did they drag the ball in on the ground or did the opposition push the ball under them? Did they get rid of the ball quickly enough, or did they take too long when tackled? Even though there is no rule on how long is “too long”. The umpire has to read the players mind often to understand their “intention” as well as what they actually did.

So yes, it is really that hard to adjudicate HTB consistently.

I've got to disagree.

Everyone else can see the throw but too often it seems the ump can't.

And HTB isn't that hard really.

People aren't getting frustrated by the umps interpretation of the finer details, it's their ad hoc interpretation of the basics.

 

[Hinkley29]

I don't think it would have mattered if Stevens played well, because we rolled with 6 midfield rotations many times 2022-2024. Bruhn, Clark, Bowes, Blicavs, Knevitt, Parfitt have all been used in that same role. None 2023 onwards (Blicavs was incredible in 2022 but is better in other positions since) have excelled as inside mids, besides Bruhn and Bowes on occasion.

Max cost himself yesterday though. Lazy, insipid effort at half back and the same in midfield. He should have been an All Australian half back in 2024 and has excelled in 3 positions so far in his career, often rotating mid-match. There is absolutely no way I'm absolving him of responsibility for his stinker last night. If you aren't naive, neither will you.

No player from the VFL would have made an iota of difference yesterday.

So why was Max playing predominantly half back in the first half? Why did he play far less in the midfield than he has in nearly every game this year? There are only so many midfield minutes to go round, and George was taking some of Max’s.

Like I said, I am ok with george playing midfield last night. We needed to find out what George could do against good opposition. Now we are more informed than we were 48 hours ago.

But you can’t deny that it pushed max out of his preferred position.

I am not excusing max though, he did play about as badly as he has for a long time, regardless of the position he was playing.