Autopsy Cats lose to GWS* AFL trust fund babies by 26 points.

[joe444]

He was certainly struggling last night.

I can’t figure out if he has just started to show his age, or if he was playing injured last night.

The next few weeks will tell a tale. If he (and other players like Stanley for example) get regular rests then I would suggest they were playing at less than 100% last night.

CS said he was sore.

 

[Mr Meow]

I reckon we saw danger at some cbas and he didn't get near it. I'm not sure it's something we can rely on

Nobody did. Maybe we just declare our season over then.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Nobody did. Maybe we just declare our season over then.

Yeah fair

 

[Mr Meow]

Yeah fair

Who are your preferred 4th and 5th midfield rotations in a big final? I don't mind Mullin if he is actually clamping down on a Callaghan or McCluggage. Not if he is just generally floating around there. The 5th? We have a bunch of options who are old, slow or just not up to it. Dangerfield might still be the best we have, if he's fresh and in form.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Who are your preferred 4th and 5th midfield rotations in a big final? I don't mind Mullin if he is actually clamping down on a Callaghan or McCluggage. Not if he is just generally floating around there. The 5th? We have a bunch of options who are old, slow or just not up to it. Dangerfield might still be the best we have, if he's fresh and in form.

Yeah it really thins out after Atkins, Holmes, Smith. Blitz depending on ruck/KPD options available. Mullin or MOC will have someone to tag in a final though we're filling out space at that point.

I was 100% on board with the three taggers method that I think it was Leigh Matthews went through with using Axe/Mullin/MoC but I think it will fall apart where their mids can break said tags.

I guess we will have to roll out the old weapon

 

[allrighty]

Just a couple of points here:

1. The rules of our game and (more importantly) the way the umpires are instructed to interpret the rules make it an impossible game to adjudicate. We have given them a job that is so difficult that it is inevitable that they will make mistakes.

2. Why would anyone want to be an umpire? The money is lousy, you get abused for trying to do your job, and there is no glory or praise when you do a good job. It is a miracle anyone would want to do it. And it is an even worse situation for those who umpire at lower levels where they are often physically in danger as well as getting no money and constantly abused. Which means that the next generation of umpires are in a crap situation. The number of people in the pathway to becoming an afl umpire must be ridiculously low.

Ask yourself the question, and be honest - would you EVER become an umpire? And do you think you could actually be good at it? For me, the answer would be an emphatic NO and NO.

I totally agree with this all and well said. They are on a hiding to nothing because of the rules they are bound by.

But it does not diminish from my original post's points.

 

[Hinkley29]

I totally agree with this all and well said. They are on a hiding to nothing because of the rules they are bound by.

But it does not diminish from my original post's points.

Your first sentence of your post was that the “umpiring is a shitshow”.

The umpiring is not the shitshow. The rules and the way umpires are asked to interpret the rules is the shitshow.

The umpiring itself is about as good as it is allowed to be given the conditions they operate under.

The umpiring doesn’t need improving. The rules and interpretations need improving.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Your first sentence of your post was that the “umpiring is a shitshow”.

The umpiring is not the shitshow. The rules and the way umpires are asked to interpret the rules is the shitshow.

The umpiring itself is about as good as it is allowed to be given the conditions they operate under.

The umpiring doesn’t need improving. The rules and interpretations need improving.

Bringing in the sanfl rule for last disposal oob is a necessary but insufficient first step

 

[#cats2021]

We missed two key players:

• SDK
• Stengel

Both critical for us. Add Kolo, particularly against big sized forwards like GWS (although I’m not sure he’s back this year).
We lost Jez for a chunk of the game and he was clearly wounded.

I’m not sure Smith was fit after illness last week. You only need to be 5% - 10% off to look ordinary. It’s pretty common for a player missing with illness the previous week to look ordinary when they return - they are only human.

We need to talk about Ollie. Danger midfield (maybe we are saving this for finals) and Ollie forward? Remember Danger played as a mid when we looked like world beaters…

Those things aside, Big Shannon, against a quality opponent, very nice.

So, bring back SDK, Stengel (underrated how important he is for us), Smith recovered, Holmes less fumbly! And we look a different side.

We need to remember this team is really quite young - under 23s - Dempsey, Neale, Holmes, Humphries, O Henry (plus Clohsey, George, Knevitt - all will make it). A bit of luck and we can pinch the flag, don’t be surprised if we fall just shot, but enjoy the ride.

PS - I watched some of the VFL, get excited some of these rucks coming through! Edwards(206cm!, 20), Pike (201, 20), Molier (203, 18, 4 goals). First game all three have played together. Edwards hit a player lace out with a 40m kick - he has some serious talent. They are rucks that can turn into KPF/KPD. Clohsey very very good and Knevitt looks to have been working in the gym, he looked big.

Not going to disagree on Stengle, gun player. The rest of your post is spot on.

I don't think SDK makes much difference if any. He has become a myth, I've never seen a player coast on such a small vein of (very good) form that was now years ago.

Let's be honest, he has been a below average player outside of 2022.

We played some of our best football last year when Kolo and Henry were our pillars and he was out.

He has zero closing speed, Hogan or Cadman would have absolutely torched him. And at the very least COS plays with confidence and marks more than he drops. SDK is nowhere near the player nor overheard mark he was three years ago. He's jittery, he lets it out the back a lot. Is below average at killing the ball.

I'm going to leave it at that because I don't want to sound like a broken record, but SDK isn't making one iota of difference to Saturday night or three weeks ago against Brisbane.

Limited impact player as of right now.

I'd encourage most on this board to actually go back and watch some matches from 2022. The drop off is almost unbelievable. But it's looking more and more like a flash in the pan.

 

[Mr Meow]

AFL Player Ratings had these Geelong players ranked in the 11 worst on the ground (order of worst to best):

Dangerfield
Stevens
Humphries
O'Connor
Smith
Mullin
Cameron

We're not going to win many games where Smith, Cameron and Dangerfield are in the worst rather than best players. It doesn't help when MOC and Humphries have shockers too. Our defence besides Stewart and Henry were too easy to play through. Zuthrie did some nice things but letting Stringer slice us up (4 goals and 7 score involvements) was a big no-no.

GWS scored a goal every 3 inside 50s. We actually had 4 more inside 50s for the game. Again, criticism needs to go to the forwards and defenders as much as the mids.

 

[ShaunWDT]

Not just him, but for the life of me i don't understand how a player at AFL level can't kick on both sides of the body, the amount of times yesterday Bowes was caught on his left and just checksided the ball with his right foot was infuriating.

It's a lost skill with a lot of modern players.

We have a few like that, Mannagh is similar does my head in when they try pull off a bullshit kick that ends in a turnover 90% of the time.

 

[ShaunWDT]

Kolo is the guy we miss not SDK, particularly on the top sides that bat deep could play tall and small and just knew what you were going to get from him.

 

[MacStradbroke]

Jack Henry

38

Jack Henry

Age

27

Ht

192cm

Wt

96kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.3

3star

K

7.3

3star

HB

2.9

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.2

4star

MG

142.6

2star

D

8.6

2star

K

6.7

3star

HB

1.9

1star

M

3.9

4star

T

2.1

3star

MG

142.6

3star

D

9.6

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

2.6

3star

M

3.6

4star

T

2.0

4star

would disagree with the SDK comments in here, especially when he is lining up on 200cm forwards some weeks.

 

[Mr Meow]

Not going to disagree on Stengle, gun player. The rest of your post is spot on.

I don't think SDK makes much difference if any. He has become a myth, I've never seen a player coast on such a small vein of (very good) form that was now years ago.

Let's be honest, he has been a below average player outside of 2022.

We played some of our best football last year when Kolo and Henry were our pillars and he was out.

He has zero closing speed, Hogan or Cadman would have absolutely torched him. And at the very least COS plays with confidence and marks more than he drops. SDK is nowhere near the player nor overheard mark he was three years ago. He's jittery, he lets it out the back a lot. Is below average at killing the ball.

I'm going to leave it at that because I don't want to sound like a broken record, but SDK isn't making one iota of difference to Saturday night or three weeks ago against Brisbane.

Limited impact player as of right now.

I'd encourage most on this board to actually go back and watch some matches from 2022. The drop off is almost unbelievable. But it's looking more and more like a flash in the pan.

SDK is better 1v1 than COS. He just needs to have Henry and/or Kolo beside him. COS and SDK without any help earlier in the year was obviously not going to be rock solid.

Henry and SDK, with one of COS and Blicavs filling defensive space - that's a combination that works okay. Even better if we had Kolo, but that's looking unlikely.

 

[ShaunWDT]

Jack Henry would disagree with the SDK comments in here, especially when he is lining up on 200cm forwards some weeks.

Henrys always been our best defender by a country mile at least in my book, could do with some actual help.

 

[catsfootyfan89]

The one thing I still can't get over is how inexplicably selfish Dangerfield played from the beginning of that game to the end. You never see that sort of stuff from him these days.

We're now in the territory of 4 games this season where you just want to flush it and move on. That's not a good sign. Contending sides usually have 1-2 of these sorts of games in a season, max. We've had a few too many blips this season now.

Dangerfield, Smith, Holmes and Cameron were deplorable. All of them. Hard to believe we're even saying that. It shows us that the youngsters in the team really do depend on the top-end to hold the wall in order for them to contribute. In a struggling team, Humphries, Stevens, COS, Martin are not going to save the day.

Having said that, I've got no criticism of the guys in the team who've played < 30 games. Can't expect them to swim upstream when the senior gun players are just lying on floaties sipping cocktails in a critical must-win game.

From here, I'm genuinely not sure where we sit in the league. My gut tells me 5-6th.

If we lose to St Kilda next week, I'm pretty much ready to just flush the season and look forward to the NHL. But it'll still be good to give the kids some finals exposure.

 

[Mr Meow]

The one thing I still can't get over is how inexplicably selfish Dangerfield played from the beginning of that game to the end. You never see that sort of stuff from him these days.

We're now in the territory of 4 games this season where you just want to flush it and move on. That's not a good sign. Contending sides usually have 1-2 of these sorts of games in a season, max. We've had a few too many blips this season now.

Dangerfield, Smith, Holmes and Cameron were deplorable. All of them. Hard to believe we're even saying that. It shows us that the youngsters in the team really do depend on the top-end to hold the wall in order for them to contribute. In a struggling team, Humphries, Stevens, COS, Martin are not going to save the day.

Having said that, I've got no criticism of the guys in the team who've played < 30 games. Can't expect them to swim upstream when the senior gun players are just lying on floaties sipping cocktails in a critical must-win game.

From here, I'm genuinely not sure where we sit in the league. My gut tells me 5-6th.

If we lose to St Kilda next week, I'm pretty much ready to just flush the season and look forward to the NHL. But it'll still be good to give the kids some finals exposure.

With Dangerfield he's mostly got the selfish/unselfish balance right this season. But I think he's so used to dominating and forcing his will on the game, that when he's getting well beaten as a forward (and basically not touching the footy) - he panics. This is exacerbated when the team are playing horribly, almost as if he's desperate for a captain's goal. Ironically, this also makes him less accurate when it's time to have a shot. Then he's in his own head about how to turn things around. As a midfielder, he'd always have the next stoppage. As a forward, you might have to wait a while.

Remember, even Ablett and Martin had some terrible games as forwards at the very end. Our expectations were set high since he was genuinely dominating earlier in the year. So it stands out a lot when the poor games creep in.

PS good post that I agree with, but two flushing metaphors was too much for me. If you are a janitor, I apologise.

 

[bulletproof]

There are just a few too many holes in this team to challenge this year.

Midfield is lacking depth.
Stanley has had a good season but is bottom third of first rucks in the league.
Concern over our second key defender with SDK’s body. COS is not a key defender, a great rebounder, yes.
We have a few guys who don’t commit their body to the contest unconditionally.

The top teams are now exposing this and no quick fixes are available.

 

[allrighty]

Your first sentence of your post was that the “umpiring is a shitshow”.

The umpiring is not the shitshow. The rules and the way umpires are asked to interpret the rules is the shitshow.

The umpiring itself is about as good as it is allowed to be given the conditions they operate under.

The umpiring doesn’t need improving. The rules and interpretations need improving.

Ok i dont disagree. I will clarify by saying the rules and their inconsistent interpretation make it a shitshow. In the end it doesn't matter so much if the rules are c rap, the umpires are crap or both. It's still a shitshow.

 

[catsfootyfan89]

We have a few guys who don’t commit their body to the contest unconditionally.

There will never be a replacement for putting your head over the ball and committing. If you're not willing to do it, you'll be beaten by the team that will.

We've been spoiled over the years with guys like Selwood, Danger, Bartel, Chapman, etc. It makes it hard to accept watching Dempsey shirking contests and floating around like a seagull for a loose chip.

I hope the guys inside the club are helping him with this aspect of his game. He needs to improve. It can't always be a flat-track day at the beach. Some games you really need to get your knuckles bloody.

For what it's worth, I really like Dempsey and I believe he'll be better.

 

[catsfootyfan89]

PS good post that I agree with, but two flushing metaphors was too much for me. If you are a janitor, I apologise.

That's what we pro's refer to as a callback. All the best posters are doing it these days.

 

[Pollywaffle]

Your first sentence of your post was that the “umpiring is a shitshow”.

The umpiring is not the shitshow. The rules and the way umpires are asked to interpret the rules is the shitshow.

The umpiring itself is about as good as it is allowed to be given the conditions they operate under.

The umpiring doesn’t need improving. The rules and interpretations need improving.

Maybe get their perception of distance right. 15 metres is still fifteen metres.. No ambiguity there.
Get Stanley in as a sponsor and send them all home with a complementary tape measure.

 

[bulletproof]

There will never be a replacement for putting your head over the ball and committing. If you're not willing to do it, you'll be beaten by the team that will.

We've been spoiled over the years with guys like Selwood, Danger, Bartel, Chapman, etc. It makes it hard to accept watching Dempsey shirking contests and floating around like a seagull for a loose chip.

I hope the guys inside the club are helping him with this aspect of his game. He needs to improve. It can't always be a flat-track day at the beach. Some games you really need to get your knuckles bloody.

For what it's worth, I really like Dempsey and I believe he'll be better.

Yeh that is where I am with Dempsey too. Really love what he brings to the side overall.

I think a change up in position is needed for him. Wing can be a tricky position, standing out there, you can get away with it some weeks. Get in bad habits.

I would like to see him thrown in for some centre bounces to see what he can do.

He is very brave in the air, he just needs more body work at ground level.

Some incredibly poor efforts. Holmes has a few little convictions in that regard too.

 

[Jumping Jack]

There are just a few too many holes in this team to challenge this year.

Midfield is lacking depth.
Stanley has had a good season but is bottom third of first rucks in the league.
Concern over our second key defender with SDK’s body. COS is not a key defender, a great rebounder, yes.
We have a few guys who don’t commit their body to the contest unconditionally.

The top teams are now exposing this and no quick fixes are available.

Sorry, but I just think this is a poorly thought out post that plays into the whole "sky is falling" narrative after a 4 goal away loss to a very good fellow finals aspirant.

-No one said our midfield lacked depth when Holmes and Smith were cutting teams up a few weeks back - or when Steven's came in and had the best debut in the history of football

• No one said ruck was a problem when Stanley was in "career best form"
• Where is the narrative over "concern with SDK's body" ......he's had some contact injuries (face and shoulder) but that's not an issue with his body being paper thin.
• "COS is not a key defender"......who said he was? His best footy is clearly 3rd defender and he's only played this many games due to Kolo injury.
• Who are the guys not committing their body unconditionally. No one says this when we win.
• Top teams are exposing us? I thought we beat Collingwood - Dogs were red hot when we beat them - check out our record against top 8 sides versus the other teams and their results against other top 8 sides. Yes we've dropped a couple but I think on balance we're not exactly exposed against top sides.

 

[bulletproof]

Sorry, but I just think this is a poorly thought out post that plays into the whole "sky is falling" narrative after a 4 goal away loss to a very good fellow finals aspirant.

-No one said our midfield lacked depth when Holmes and Smith were cutting teams up a few weeks back - or when Steven's came in and had the best debut in the history of football

• No one said ruck was a problem when Stanley was in "career best form"
• Where is the narrative over "concern with SDK's body" ......he's had some contact injuries (face and shoulder) but that's not an issue with his body being paper thin.
• "COS is not a key defender"......who said he was? His best footy is clearly 3rd defender and he's only played this many games due to Kolo injury.
• Who are the guys not committing their body unconditionally. No one says this when we win.
• Top teams are exposing us? I thought we beat Collingwood - Dogs were red hot when we beat them - check out our record against top 8 sides versus the other teams and their results against other top 8 sides. Yes we've dropped a couple but I think on balance we're not exactly exposed against top sides.

Well COS played key defence on the weekend and was absolutely thrashed and we know SDK has issues when he returns from contact injuries so I think that is a legitimate worry.

We have been soundly beaten, not even close, in our last two games versus finals contenders. That is not the profile of a team ready to challenge for a Premiership.

I don’t think the sky is falling in, I think we are still building our next Premiership team, and we are not ready at the moment.

I think the club knows it needs midfield reinforcements and we will heavily target options over next two trade periods. Two quality ball winners is not nearly enough. For different reasons, Bruhn and Clark are not where we need them for now, so that plan did not work out like we would have hoped.

I have huge admiration for Atkins but he is carrying an enormous load in the contest and defensive side of midfield too.

There has been a lot to like this year, especially Neale and COS at both ends.