Coach Luke Beveridge and his on-field coaching.

[LondonBulldog]

Tian, has summed it up perfectly not much more I can add.

People focus too much on our turnovers. We had 68 and Crows 64, very marginal. It's not turnovers, all sides have them. It's having the defensive structures in place to deal with turnovers. With our high press, a simple turnover results in a goal, as the defenders are usually playing in front and get caught out the back or lost in space.

I've been saying for years the game plan needs a tweak, yet it never changes.

Can we stop sooking about injured players, the game should have been played at ballarat, blah blah blah. The game was there to be won and we bottled it again not due to effort but due to structure.

 

[Blewdog]

I think we need to rethink our entire defensive structure, not just how we set up after turnovers. Strong teams are moving the ball from kick-ins far too easily against us. While we’re dropping numbers into the corridor, we're still allowing uncontested hit-up kicks straight up the wing.

 

[_Mike_]

It isn't over yet.

Agree, there's a few speed humps in the way but no where near the doomsday scenario.

 

[dogwatch]

Well nobody has answered it yet and I've only got non-sequiturs back.

Go back to May in the other thread and there are plenty examples of praise - even people admitting they were previously wrong on Bevo wanting him gone, etc.

So what's changed with his coaching since then? As now the feeling is most want him gone again.
It's possible something has. It seemed like something did mid last year. If something has changed again, fair enough - what is it? I don't know.

One thing that has changed is the greater body of evidence that we don’t have the game plan (or systems or structures, call it what you like) to win a decent share of against the better teams.

Earlier in the season we were sufficiently buoyed by the huge wins over weak teams and the exciting, attractive football we played that we were prepared to tolerate 2 or 3 honourable losses. But now it has become more a pattern than a mere hiccup. I think the penny has dropped in the last couple of weeks that our defensive system is suspect too. A few weeks ago there were only a few commenting on it. Now it’s on everybody’s thumb tips.

It hasn’t changed my mind. I think extending Bevo when we did was the right decision. I’m just suggesting one or two answers to “what’s changed?”

 

[dogwatch]

I should add that there will be the inevitable arguments about whether it’s list or coaching that is mainly to blame. It’s a legitimate question but it’s one that can never be proved one way or another. We know we are short of a quality player or two in defence but that doesn’t give the coaching team a free pass on our defensive setup.

The topic also relates to how much our midfield can control the game. That too can be list related despite our much vaunted midfield depth.

 

[Libbaaaa]

I think we need to rethink our entire defensive structure, not just how we set up after turnovers. Strong teams are moving the ball from kick-ins far too easily against us. While we’re dropping numbers into the corridor, we're still allowing uncontested hit-up kicks straight up the wing.

Might just be selective memory but I feel like we always allow the opposing team to stroll out of the goal square, gain about 15m-20m and bomb it clear.

 

[Hobdog]

It may even be conceivable that Bevo and the coaches are actually extracting quite a lot of juice out of a limited orange.

 

[LondonBulldog]

That table above is a blight on the coaches no matter what way you look at it. It proves that the current game plan needs to change as we are not getting the best out of the players. For a side around the 8 to be 15th is damming.

 

[adogsfan5]

View attachment 2367807

That table above is a blight on the coaches no matter what way you look at it. It proves that the current game plan needs to change as we are not getting the best out of the players. For a side around the 8 to be 15th is damming.

Defence = success. Just look at 16 and 21, as well as what the pies are doing this year. You don’t win flags in shootouts.

 

[FoochPackage]

You left off Bont for 6 weeks, Darcy for at least 6 weeks…..they are possibly our two best players.

I’d argue we beat the Pies and Lions with Bont and would be sitting in the top 4

You argue that but we just lost to the Crows with both of them.

 

[BEaston]

One thing that has changed is the greater body of evidence that we don’t have the game plan (or systems or structures, call it what you like) to win a decent share of against the better teams.

Earlier in the season we were sufficiently buoyed by the huge wins over weak teams and the exciting, attractive football we played that we were prepared to tolerate 2 or 3 honourable losses. But now it has become more a pattern than a mere hiccup. I think the penny has dropped in the last couple of weeks that our defensive system is suspect too. A few weeks ago there were only a few commenting on it. Now it’s on everybody’s thumb tips.

It hasn’t changed my mind. I think extending Bevo when we did was the right decision. I’m just suggesting one or two answers to “what’s changed?”

Those are fair enough - probably right. In both cases though, as you say, his actual coaching hasn't changed, just the perception (which usually goes off wins/losses).

Extending the time frame, has the system has changed since the back half of last year, when we were rated the best defence in the league? I don't know, but it wouldn't logically make sense to change what was working, so I have to assume not. Personnel has changed a bit, but not significantly - so I don't think that's a major factor.

Would we even be having this conversation if we beat Pies and Cats? I think only a couple of little things change in those games and the results would have been different - I doubt we're here now if we won. I get people may argue that this is a pattern, but to me that's not exactly a large sample size. The impact that luck has in close games like that has been shown to be a stronger factor to the outcome than most other things.

The other point could be that we're a good team, and have a good coach and that's just it. We've consistently made finals , have one of the best winning percentages since Bevo came in, made 2 GFs and won 1 premiership. With a bunch of excellent young players, I don't really see why that would change any time soon. It's a pretty decent level that we've maintained.

 

[TiAn_]

Those are fair enough - probably right. In both cases though, as you say, his actual coaching hasn't changed, just the perception (which usually goes off wins/losses).

Extending the time frame, has the system has changed since the back half of last year, when we were rated the best defence in the league? I don't know, but it wouldn't logically make sense to change what was working, so I have to assume not. Personnel has changed a bit, but not significantly - so I don't think that's a major factor.

Would we even be having this conversation if we beat Pies and Cats? I think only a couple of little things change in those games and the results would have been different - I doubt we're here now if we won. I get people may argue that this is a pattern, but to me that's not exactly a large sample size. The impact that luck has in close games like that has been shown to be a stronger factor to the outcome than most other things.

The other point could be that we're a good team, and have a good coach and that's just it. We've consistently made finals , have one of the best winning percentages since Bevo came in, made 2 GFs and won 1 premiership. With a bunch of excellent young players, I don't really see why that would change any time soon. It's a pretty decent level that we've maintained.

The problem is those hypothetical wins would really just be window dressing. It would change the perception of some supporters sure, but we’d largely still have the same poor defensive statistical profile.

Obviously the previous weeks’ stats don’t matter once a game starts, we saw our fantastic statistical profile last year amount to nought in the EF. But there’s a meaningful sample now to suggest we have an issue.

 

[grassman75]

You argue that but we just lost to the Crows with both of them.

We did. But it wasn’t them who let us down. In the Pies game everyone played well, add Bont into that and we win

 

[Mantis Toboggan]

Well nobody has answered it yet and I've only got non-sequiturs back.

Go back to May in the other thread and there are plenty examples of praise - even people admitting they were previously wrong on Bevo wanting him gone, etc.

So what's changed with his coaching since then? As now the feeling is most want him gone again.
It's possible something has. It seemed like something did mid last year. If something has changed again, fair enough - what is it? I don't know.

I’m in the same pub as Bevo now. Shall I go ask him?

 

[BEaston]

I’m in the same pub as Bevo now. Shall I go ask him?

No need - we've got BF!

You could have a crack if you want!

 

[TheScriptorWL]

I’m in the same pub as Bevo now. Shall I go ask him?

Offer to buy him a Pint wearing a cardboard Kane Cornes mask. Then again, maybe don't. You might get kicked out of the Pub Rooms.

 

[Sharkey66]

No need - we've got BF!

You could have a crack if you want!

Offer to buy him a Pint wearing a cardboard Kane Cornes mask. Then again, maybe don't. You might get kicked out of the Pub Rooms.

Can someone hear a toilet flushing......

 

[Mucat]

Tian, has summed it up perfectly not much more I can add.

People focus too much on our turnovers. We had 68 and Crows 64, very marginal. It's not turnovers, all sides have them. It's having the defensive structures in place to deal with turnovers. With our high press, a simple turnover results in a goal, as the defenders are usually playing in front and get caught out the back or lost in space.

I've been saying for years the game plan needs a tweak, yet it never changes.

Can we stop sooking about injured players, the game should have been played at ballarat, blah blah blah. The game was there to be won and we bottled it again not due to effort but due to structure.

wELL IF IT IS OUR DEFENSIVE STRUCTURE IT MUST BE CHANGED

 

[Charlie Bucket]

Been waiting 2 years for a Bevo thread I wasn’t banned from. Thanks Norm De Guerre

 

[hutchy31]

I think there are some issues with coaching and approach but they’ve been there for a while and are obviously not going to change that much. These might be simplistic but it feels like they’ve been a problem for years.

• Betting the house on midfield dominance and a forward half defensive game and not having enough concern for what happens when we miss or turn the ball over.
• Refusal to tag/run with certain players who are on fire or tear us a new one every time we play them (Newcombe being the most aggravating example of this for at least 4-5 games now).
• Linked to the above, that we seem to blindly back our gameplan to beat the other team, rather than adjust to what the other team might bring.
• Acceptance of poor tackling technique and/or defensive and pressure efforts all over the ground.
• Poor forward coaching of KPFs and their positioning (despite our high scoring this year it’s still a regular problem - crows showed how this should be done on Saturday)

But the main issue for me is team selection. It’s always been his Achilles heel. This weekend was an example - sometimes the best approach might be to look at the opposition and pick a team to beat that particular challenge. I don’t care if he brings Jones in, Buss in or whoever - but Coffieid is not a third tall and it exposes Lobb and JOD and denies them the chance to play at their best.

I think he’s a great coach but I was still a detractor for the past few years as I don’t think he can get out of his own way. And it’s not just him, the whole footy department obviously needs to take some responsibility, but he’s the main voice in there. The hope is that we actually had a decent defensive run in late 2024, that has waned but have found a strong offensive identity this year, and maybe a balance can be struck for next year. But if I had to bet my life on it I’d guess we’ll find a way to be in a similar position in the bottom half of the contenders next year and it’ll be the same until Bevo leaves.

 

[dogwatch]

... But if I had to bet my life on it I’d guess we’ll find a way to be in a similar position in the bottom half of the contenders next year and it’ll be the same until Bevo leaves.

So when Bevo leaves and it changes do we go up? Or down?

 

[Zeno The Great]

We all can see there is a major issue with the defensive side of our game plan well summed up by others such as LondonBulldog and TiAn_

Where I think we all get most frustrated is selection. Listening to Leigh Matthews tonight and he said the obvious thing to do was bring in another defensive tall v the crows, something 99% of us wanted. We have played the 2 talls and been badly exposed many times, at least try something different, whether it was Jones, Khamis or buss. There might not be the perfect option but there were options.

 

[Freshwater]

We all can see there is a major issue with the defensive side of our game plan well summed up by others such as LondonBulldog and TiAn_

Where I think we all get most frustrated is selection. Listening to Leigh Matthews tonight and he said the obvious thing to do was bring in another defensive tall v the crows, something 99% of us wanted. We have played the 2 talls and been badly exposed many times, at least try something different, whether it was Jones, Khamis or buss. There might not be the perfect option but there were options.

Leigh Mathews was an absolute thug as a player but also brilliant. An incredible coach, great player great coach rarely goes together. More than any other commentator he is just so logical in his approach to the game. If he says it, listen Bevo. He’s on the board at Brisbane and they are so well run with an incredible squad.
I’ve said for years here, I love Bevo, but his selection is not up to league standards. Ever since he got too cute with Bob Murphy and pushed out Matty Boyd in 2017 it’s been below where it needs to be.

 

[Doggies_13]

Our issues are our backline and our defensive structures.

We play a very high aggressive press which can be opened up quite easily, especially if our pressure dips. We also lack players in defence who are good 1v1 or defensively minded, as in defend first.

Look back at 16 the following were good 1v1 and/or defensively minded:
Morris
Boyd
Wood
Hamling
Roberts

Not saying they were all elite defenders or great afl players but they had defensive abilities.

We now play a quite aggressive backline. All of Dale, JJ and Bramble are not defensively minded. We also don’t have a lock down key defender. With jones falling off the cliff. Who was beat my opponent first then impact player.

We don’t sustain pressure on transition, last few years have been because we have played a tall forward line this year I think it’s due to age profile not being able to sustain it.

Clearly we lack the personnel back there and that’s why we have such terrible numbers when it comes to scores per inside 50 conceded. Against the weaker teams they don’t get the ball in there as much and they don’t transition as well allowing us to flood back. But against good sides they transition quicker than we can flood back and they match us in terms of inside 50s.

We need an adjustment in our game plan which is on the coaches. Our press needs to be less aggressive and we need to hold an anchor to stop the out the back goals.

Then recruiting wise we need to invest in our backline and players who defend first and can compete 1v1.

 

[Charlie Bucket]

We all can see there is a major issue with the defensive side of our game plan well summed up by others such as LondonBulldog and TiAn_

Where I think we all get most frustrated is selection. Listening to Leigh Matthews tonight and he said the obvious thing to do was bring in another defensive tall v the crows, something 99% of us wanted. We have played the 2 talls and been badly exposed many times, at least try something different, whether it was Jones, Khamis or buss. There might not be the perfect option but there were options.

Why would Jones/Khamis/Buss have fared better than Lobb and O’Donnell?