List Mgmt. 2025 List Management discussion

[_Maximus_12]

Secondly this is the issue. People just preach patience forever. Well we can get mad but that won’t fix anything, be patient.

I think this is a really broad brush. I’ve hated every one of our list strategies from 2011 until RTB 2.0.

Maybe I’m giving Bassett too much credit, but I’m of the belief that Ross has been bought back to build the list to contend because he’s strong enough as an individual to see it through and isn’t coaching for his career. Each of Watters, Richo & Ratten had the pressure of performance to save their career.
Ross and Bassett are consistently acting in the best interests of the club long term. There’s a vision beyond their tenure’s and when you have people who are willing to do the grunt work without necessarily reaping the rewards, good things typically happen.

I’m personally being patient right now because I trust this approach. It’s the only approach that we’ve seen success from.
Invest heavily in the draft, aim to recruit high end players from other clubs and develop what you have.

 

[_Maximus_12]

We’ve been as dumb as dogshit over 150 years if that’s the case.

2004-2011. Smack bang in the sweet spot.

 

[Thirsty_NeedBeer]

Another Tony74 update on SS, in response to a message where a campaigner said "It's hard to imagine the team without Naz in it ..", Tony said "no need to".

Nas not going. Nothing has changed. In Tony we trust!

I’m not a religious man, but I’m praying daily to Tony74 in hope he will share some knowledge. This makes me very happy.

 

[ARCHIE66]

Another Tony74 update on SS, in response to a message where a campaigner said "It's hard to imagine the team without Naz in it ..", Tony said "no need to".

Nas not going. Nothing has changed. In Tony we trust!

That is great news

 

[Dr Spaceman]

Another Tony74 update on SS, in response to a message where a campaigner said "It's hard to imagine the team without Naz in it ..", Tony said "no need to".

Nas not going. Nothing has changed. In Tony we trust!

 

[aidansbonor]

Another Tony74 update on SS, in response to a message where a campaigner said "It's hard to imagine the team without Naz in it ..", Tony said "no need to".

Nas not going. Nothing has changed. In Tony we trust!

Anyone know what Tony said about battle this time last yr?

 

[Joffaboy]

Don't shoot the messenger but was listening to SEN today ( rarely do) and they were talking about CTE victim Hodge having a go at Riewoldt not criticising Lyon.
Lots of Hodge never critisised Clarkson, Ratten is a Hawthorn coach etc, but they brought up an interesting stat.
Andy Maher was arguing with King about the Saints off air. Apparently King pulled up stats saying we were the fastest team in the comp to get it inside 50 but one of the worst to convert. King believes if Max King

Multiple players found. Use birthday to differentiate. eg [PLAYERCARD="23/11/1962"]Joe Smith[/PLAYERCARD]

was there we win another 5 games for the season.
Now just an opinion by David King but the two stats were telling. How much better did we look with a plodder like Heath bringing the ball to ground and making the defenders actually work.

I firmly subscribe that we have been severely hampered all year without our key back and key forward.

Don't know if we make finals so probably better to be shit this season and get a better pick than come 9th and have pick 13.
I am willing to give Lyon a Mulligan for this year, but if we get the same stack of injuries next preseason that derailed the past two seasons, our preparation needs to be reviewed closely. Gives us no chance or any momentum.

 

[Saints4ever]

Don't shoot the messenger but was listening to SEN today ( rarely do) and they were talking about CTE victim Hodge having a go at Riewoldt not criticising Lyon.
Lots of Hodge never critisised Clarkson, Ratten is a Hawthorn coach etc, but they brought up an interesting stat.
Andy Maher was arguing with King about the Saints off air. Apparently King pulled up stats saying we were the fastest team in the comp to get it inside 50 but one of the worst to convert. King believes if Max King was there we win another 5 games for the season.
Now just an opinion by David King but the two stats were telling. How much better did we look with a plodder like Heath bringing the ball to ground and making the defenders actually work.

I firmly subscribe that we have been severely hampered all year without our key back and key forward.

Don't know if we make finals so probably better to be shit this season and get a better pick than come 9th and have pick 13.
I am willing to give Lyon a Mulligan for this year, but if we get the same stack of injuries next preseason that derailed the past two seasons, our preparation needs to be reviewed closely. Gives us no chance or any momentum.

Agree with this 100%

Maybe I should demand better but it is what it is.

 

[Miha]

Anyone know what Tony said about battle this time last yr?

Well it’s sort of known now that everyone at the club believed Battle was staying right until the day he confirmed he’s leaving so Tony would have suggested the same

 

[Joffaboy]

Agree with this 100%

Maybe I should demand better but it is what it is.

Well we should demand better preparation, last two preseadons have been diabolical

 

[aidansbonor]

Well it’s sort of known now that everyone at the club believed Battle was staying right until the day he confirmed he’s leaving so Tony would have suggested the same

Yeah that's a fair call good point

 

[beside the seaside]

Well it’s sort of known now that everyone at the club believed Battle was staying right until the day he confirmed he’s leaving so Tony would have suggested the same

From what I remember Tony implied Battle was leaving. Said something like "Josh will do what's best for his family".

That's a marvelous Tony74 update above re Nas. Got a spring back in my step, thanks Tony!

 

[Saints4ever]

Well we should demand better preparation, last two preseadons have been diabolical

Really?

Interesting.

I thought we trained really hard last preseason going off reports here.

Disappointing to hear.

 

[Miha]

Yeah that's a fair call good point

Up to this point he’s tripled down on Nas staying so fingers crossed

 

[porterrob4747]

From what I remember Tony implied Battle was leaving. Said something like "Josh will do what's best for his family".

That's a marvelous Tony74 update above re Nas. Got a spring back in my step, thanks Tony!

Battle left best thing happen to club, Tauru is already better player and is only going to get better.
Wanageneen leaves who know what we get for him, but butters and 1st round in top 6, and pick in 20 get aleer, with tdk that is big win for saints.

 

[ThomasR]

Don't shoot the messenger but was listening to SEN today ( rarely do) and they were talking about CTE victim Hodge having a go at Riewoldt not criticising Lyon.
Lots of Hodge never critisised Clarkson, Ratten is a Hawthorn coach etc, but they brought up an interesting stat.
Andy Maher was arguing with King about the Saints off air. Apparently King pulled up stats saying we were the fastest team in the comp to get it inside 50 but one of the worst to convert. King believes if Max King was there we win another 5 games for the season.
Now just an opinion by David King but the two stats were telling. How much better did we look with a plodder like Heath bringing the ball to ground and making the defenders actually work.

I firmly subscribe that we have been severely hampered all year without our key back and key forward.

Don't know if we make finals so probably better to be shit this season and get a better pick than come 9th and have pick 13.
I am willing to give Lyon a Mulligan for this year, but if we get the same stack of injuries next preseason that derailed the past two seasons, our preparation needs to be reviewed closely. Gives us no chance or any momentum.

Maybe Lyon gets a mulligan but I don't think the list management team deserve one. Yes it has been bad luck losing King and Howard but injuries will happen and we put no contingencies in place, particularly after losing Battle and Membrey.

Cordy would've been delisted if he wasn't already contracted, pretty sure he was dropped before he got injured? And on form we could hardly rely on Heath (22yo) and Keeler (21yo) progressing enough to hold down key posts at AFL level. Heath has been okay but really struggles to get any form of separation as a forward and Keeler still needs to put on a lot of size.

Which leaves Caminiti (21yo himself) as our only viable 195cm+ key position player, and after training with the forwards all summer he was shifted down back out of necessity, and has done reasonably well.

All the while we've been rolling out 3 ruckmen in the VFL every week. Easy to say in hindsight but Boyd over Blakiston was a huge blunder. I know we were interested in Blakiston and he's shown the versatility to hold down a key defensive post for the Bombers since the MSD. Boyd has just taken ruck minutes off Heath/Dodson and cannot play anywhere else. Seems like a lovely fella but it's now clear why no other clubs ever took the punt on him. He came recommended by a physio at the club - which makes me wonder what we are paying scouts for?

Depth is always going to suffer when you are developing this many players at once, but crossing our fingers and hoping/requiring at least two of Howard/King/Caminiti would stay fit probably wasn't the best idea and it has bitten us hard. A mature ruck with positional versatility would've been handy. There are also far too many one-dimensional mids on the list who could've made way for another tall.

 

[Moquo]

Well it’s sort of known now that everyone at the club believed Battle was staying right until the day he confirmed he’s leaving so Tony would have suggested the same

Actually, Tony said that Battle would do what's right for his young family, and that the club would def not be paying overs.

 

[akaifu]

Heaps of annoying decisions

Carroll? Really a GOP made for the VFL. Can't get a game.

Dow on retrospect is a cheaper and much worse version of Dunstan

3 year extension to Hill?

3 years for Collard. Would be delist or trade bait at any other club.

Long term for Max

The list goes on…

Carroll was a fine recruit for a 45th man on the list. It's not like he's taking the spot of a potential top 10 pick - it was either him or a rookie draft pick or an SSP-type. Has added good depth to our list and and still only 22 yrs old

Dow was a punt on a former pick 3 who was stuck behind one of the best midfields in the comp. He still could come good - Ross said he rates him and enjoyed his finish to last year. Got super unlucky with the infection this year otherwise I'd say he wouldve played most of the season

Hill is questionable but if it means holding NWM for another 2 years then it was an elite deal

Collard's extension was probably more about showing faith and wrapping arms around a homesick kid. Try to motivate him. If it doesnt work out, we still have leverage in trade discussions as he'd be contracted

Max long term is way too early to call. All we need is for him to give us a premiership. That is still possible. I reckon if he delivers that then the entire contract would be worth it. I'm fine with the club putting him on ice this year - get him cherry ripe for when the team is actually in contention

 

[Diehard Saint]

I firmly subscribe that we have been severely hampered all year without our key back and key forward.

All due respect to King, and you but I think the majority of us have realised that we have been crying out for our bookend talls the entire season.

Next to praying for a NAS signature, I’ll be praying bloody hard that King is injury free next year.

I think I caught the back end of that discussion with Julian de Stoop? who was talking about all the intercept marks against us in our forward line because of the lack of talls.

 

[Jade Buddha]

So is Armstrong actually on our list or just a guest visiting.

 

[Joffaboy]

So is Armstrong actually on our list or just a guest visiting.

Listed as an International rookie

 

[ThomasR]

Carroll was a fine recruit for a 45th man on the list. It's not like he's taking the spot of a potential top 10 pick - it was either him or a rookie draft pick. Has added good depth to our list and and still only 22 yrs old

I really like Carroll as a player but on balance it was a mistake to sign him after giving Jones another year and bringing in Macrae, left us with a glut of mids which has been great for Sandy but has seen us ranked 17th for contested marks, 17th for spoils, 17th for offensive contested 1v1 wins, 17th for hitouts to advantage and 18th for hitouts - basically dominated in any aerial stat due to our lack of genuine talls

 

[littlecreatures]

Will you reset the goal posts? All jokes and barbs aside, that is the criticism of the perennial “doomsday preppers” of the “ever optimists”.

We just keep the rebuild cycle going for basically 15 years now and every time there’s an excuse and re set.

2025 was crunch time but now it’s 2026, so if 2026 is a failure will you say we’ve ****ed it up? Or just push it out another year.

The irony being that if we did exactly this from 2019-20 (pushing out the goalposts and extending a rebuild) we may not be in the position we are in now and heading towards the pointier end of a list rebuild.

I think this is the crux of the issue and managing expectations, and we inevitably end taking on a sugar hit as opposed to the longer term vision of sustained success.

We just don’t have the list or talent to genuinely compete on a sustained basis, or make a flag tilt, and don’t recall the club ever formally telling anyone it was a “soft rebuild, so like it or not we need to develop the core of our list which doesn’t resolve itself in 2-3 years.

 

[OxSaint]

I really think we need to target another key forward. Not necessarily a walk up starter but a proven state league guy or a veteran like Hawthorne and north have done with Gunston and Darling. Just a decent fill in for King who also offers experience and coaching. I think that is far more valuable than a break glass ruckmen that we have carried for years now.

I guess the question is, who fits the criteria and is gettable?

 

[akaifu]

I really like Carroll as a player but on balance it was a mistake to sign him after giving Jones another year and bringing in Macrae, left us with a glut of mids which has been great for Sandy but has seen us ranked 17th for contested marks, 17th for spoils, 17th for offensive contested 1v1 wins, 17th for hitouts to advantage and 18th for hitouts - basically dominated in any aerial stat due to our lack of genuine talls

You probably wouldn't be saying the same thing if it was Macrae Steele Clark who were out for the season instead of Doug King Cordy