List Mgmt. 2025 List Management discussion

[Joffaboy]

Lol you've completely avoided the question.

Not sure why you've been triggered.

You answered my question with a question. Obviously you can't answer the question.
Will ask again, what trades have we done that have been difficult?
I'll help, the Carlisle trade was difficult. Arguments it was Essendon but that was a difficult.
I'll help you even more, the multitude of players we have missed out on. How many were because the managers found us difficult to work with? Don't know could be a factor, or maybe just one of many reasons.
You see I don't necessarily think the report is untrue, it may be, but to blithely accept it as fact and then use it to pot the club, is a symptom of confirmation bias, grab anything percieved as negative towards the club to bemoan how bad the club is.
And to think you would trigger me, lol, sweetie, you ain't that important in my life, or even on this forum.
Love you gorgeous

 

[Joffaboy]

Really?

Interesting.

I thought we trained really hard last preseason going off reports here.

Disappointing to hear.

We did, however two preseasons in a row, we had multiple soft tissue injuries, breaks etc can't be helped, but did we overtrain?

 

[Broski]

This has come to my mind with no logic applied. Do you reckon the club keeps on Brodie Kemp, even with Leek Aleer looking a likely acquisition. Kemp's seemingly out of contract this year and has been injured all year. Maybe if he's super cheap?

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

I think this offseason is very important in defining expectations.

If as expected you bring in TDK Aleer and potentially a third. I can’t imagine the club sold them on anything but a rise up the ladder.

So, my first question would be would we have a list possible of playing finals? That should be a yes.

Is the coach good enough and is he the right man for the job? Both should be a yes, but if he can’t get us back to September next year with a healthy list and the above inclusions. Then he should be under an elephant.

The succession plan is there for a reason

 

[BrutThough]

We did, however two preseasons in a row, we had multiple soft tissue injuries, breaks etc can't be helped, but did we overtrain?

Ross mentioned somewhere that we accept players breaking down in the preseason because those that make it through the progrm are battle hardened for the entire season.

Without knowing the numbers, if we aren't experiencing many fresh soft tissue injuries during the season then that approach might be worth it. If we are, then we really need to rethink that approach. I would also hope those with big history are given a different program over preseason to minimise the risks of reoccurrence.

 

[Joffaboy]

Suppose so.

And then a big ? Around both Howard & Marshall.

Which I can’t see the point of trading Howard now. So retain him and potentially Tauru/Camma back forward instead of Keeler/Heath/Dodson

Would still keep Howard, we have been so exposed this year.
Could free up Caminiti to go back forward or take Jimmys,spot.
On paper Howard, Wilkie, Tauru, Aleer, Hammer, Stocker as your back six looks much stronger than even when Battle was there.

 

[jimmytigs]

Anyway, hypothetical for the board.

Rumours are former pick 3, Zane Duursma wants out of north.

Anybody think he is worth whatever we get for Marshall or even our own FRP?

im worried about the 3rd duursma(male)already,because the first 2 havent hit any heights yet and zane and the 3rd one have both been talked up as pointy end top draft picks,never mind this duursma,so not our first for sure,the marshall pick maybe,assuming its prelim final minimum geelong,which will probably be 25-30

 

[Nomis2933]

Dumbest media take of the week (hard to do given the amount of dumb takes).

“He’s weighing up a two-year $800,000 offer in total up against a four-year $3 million deal from St Kilda,” Morris added.

“That’s a $2.2 million difference across the life of the deal.”

$400K a year average (GWS) v $750K a year average (StK). Over a 2 year period, being the term of the GWS offer, it is a difference of $700K. In itself, that is a big difference and blows the GWS offer out of the water, but the bobblehead is being is usually dramatic self by throwing out the $2.2M number, making us sound like Bill Gates.

 

[gringo2011]

They chased Kemp and pulled out when Carlton wanted too much.

Player wanted to come.

Should have had a back up plan then.

 

[gringo2011]

It’s injuries, it’s the draw, it’s Gold Coast concessions, it’s mercury in retrograde.

At some point we just need to do better. 2025 was gonna be finals but injuries, draw, battle (a decision we made from all accounts).

Now it’s 2026 but if Nas goes then it’s re set, and if he’s still there injuries still could be the issue.

I think you see it as moving with the world but the counter is a constantly moving target is one that becomes irrelevant. It’s the north thing (and I’ve fallen for the north list as well).

At some point results have to be found, it’s been a long time since we were good, you gotta be able to see why there is immense frustration about being told to be patient.

(By you I mean the collective you of ever optimists btw, now YOU specifically)

Poor old Eric Banana was out promoting a movie on ABC this morning. They used the opportunity to give him shit about saying that we'd have 2 flags by 2026 instead.

 

[beside the seaside]

Poor old Eric Banana was out promoting a movie on ABC this morning. They used the opportunity to give him shit about saying that we'd have 2 flags by 2026 instead.

Harsh considering he'll only be one short

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Firstly I’m not the coach, nor the list manager, it’s not incumbent upon me to find the solutions and even if I did they would be meaningless.

Secondly this is the issue. People just preach patience forever. Well we can get mad but that won’t fix anything, be patient.

I’m actually in for giving Ross his allotted time and letting him cook away (my commentary on 2025 is actually that it is what it is, I’m neither mad nor particularly optimistic about it) but my point is that people always have an out.

If 2026 goes to shit there will be the “injuries and a bad draw” crew. Same in 27 and so on. At what point do THEY say “actually nah this is ****ing shit”.

If next year goes pear shaped then I have no doubt the succession plan will be enacted.

 

[Dard Ball Get]

Poor old Eric Banana was out promoting a movie on ABC this morning. They used the opportunity to give him shit about saying that we'd have 2 flags by 2026 instead.

Did he remind them they suffer a far greater embarrassment, “working” for the ABC

 

[jwikked]

If next year goes pear shaped then I have no doubt the succession plan will be enacted.

What succession plan? There isn’t one.

There might be an expectation that Corey Enright is next in line, but there’s no plan there.

 

[gringo2011]

I think this is a really broad brush. I’ve hated every one of our list strategies from 2011 until RTB 2.0.

Maybe I’m giving Bassett too much credit, but I’m of the belief that Ross has been bought back to build the list to contend because he’s strong enough as an individual to see it through and isn’t coaching for his career. Each of Watters, Richo & Ratten had the pressure of performance to save their career.
Ross and Bassett are consistently acting in the best interests of the club long term. There’s a vision beyond their tenure’s and when you have people who are willing to do the grunt work without necessarily reaping the rewards, good things typically happen.

I’m personally being patient right now because I trust this approach. It’s the only approach that we’ve seen success from.
Invest heavily in the draft, aim to recruit high end players from other clubs and develop what you have.

Which is what I've said all a long. The but is that he has to start performing now. We can't just keep getting younger to buy time. Realistically our last rebuild started in earnest in 2021 and it still has a core of good older talent around it.

If we want to be competitive we need to start to fill out the middle age bracket, not go younger unless we want to stay in a protracted period of hard rebuild like North are doing.

You risk players leaving wanting success if you do that and you lose fans and sponsors.

Bassat was smart enough to realise that he'd ****ed everything he touched up at least and start again with a decent football department which is the engine of any sides future. I think our board are probably one of the least competent in the AFL outside of Carlton and Essendon but I give them credit for not staying on a road to nowhere.

We should be able to soft rebuild in 5 drafts and stay competitive unless we are scared to move forward or want to buy time to cover arses.

22 players under 23 is a very young side and gets younger this next draft. We need to stop bringing in bulk and start honing the list now. Fill holes and start finding longer term answers to obvious needs.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Heaps of annoying decisions

Carroll? Really a GOP made for the VFL. Can't get a game.

Dow on retrospect is a cheaper and much worse version of Dunstan

3 year extension to Hill?

3 years for Collard. Would be delist or trade bait at any other club.

Long term for Max

The list goes on…

Carroll is a break glass in emergency mid that had cost us nothing but a list spot.

Dow is a vastly better than Jam Tins Dunstan. He can actually execute a basic handball without turning it over. He’s just can’t get on the park.

Hill a club leader who deserved an extra 3 years on much reduced $.

Max signed the extension when he was fully fit & considered one of most important players to build around.

Collard is a super talented kid. 3 years gives him time & us the opportunity to get something in return if he packs it in.

 

[gringo2011]

Don't shoot the messenger but was listening to SEN today ( rarely do) and they were talking about CTE victim Hodge having a go at Riewoldt not criticising Lyon.
Lots of Hodge never critisised Clarkson, Ratten is a Hawthorn coach etc, but they brought up an interesting stat.
Andy Maher was arguing with King about the Saints off air. Apparently King pulled up stats saying we were the fastest team in the comp to get it inside 50 but one of the worst to convert. King believes if Max King was there we win another 5 games for the season.
Now just an opinion by David King but the two stats were telling. How much better did we look with a plodder like Heath bringing the ball to ground and making the defenders actually work.

I firmly subscribe that we have been severely hampered all year without our key back and key forward.

Don't know if we make finals so probably better to be shit this season and get a better pick than come 9th and have pick 13.
I am willing to give Lyon a Mulligan for this year, but if we get the same stack of injuries next preseason that derailed the past two seasons, our preparation needs to be reviewed closely. Gives us no chance or any momentum.

I think he was saying we were quick last year. King is still very positive on Lyon's build.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

What succession plan? There isn’t one.

There might be an expectation that Corey Enright is next in line, but there’s no plan there.

Of course there is

 

[Jade Buddha]

I think the biggest flaw in 2025 plan was not replacing Battle. The domino effect being Camma to the backline robbing the forward line then the continued injuries to King. Our team to some degree has been working all season on replacements rather than true positions.

 

[gringo2011]

Battle left best thing happen to club, Tauru is already better player and is only going to get better.
Wanageneen leaves who know what we get for him, but butters and 1st round in top 6, and pick in 20 get aleer, with tdk that is big win for saints.

Well that's delusional. Tauru looks insanely promising but right now our defence has gone from rock solid to an absolute liability. Right now we have a kid who will still be playing in 10 years hopefully for an established pillar of the back line. It either ends up genius or reckless depending on how far Tauru goes. Right now it looks like a long term win but short term pain.

Battle should have been able to be covered even in the short term. Probably a better investment than a VFL back up ruck. Could have taken Luke Parks or another VFL marking machine instead. Then we would have cover for both.

 

[phantom13]

Ross mentioned somewhere that we accept players breaking down in the preseason because those that make it through the progrm are battle hardened for the entire season.

Without knowing the numbers, if we aren't experiencing many fresh soft tissue injuries during the season then that approach might be worth it. If we are, then we really need to rethink that approach. I would also hope those with big history are given a different program over preseason to minimise the risks of reoccurrence.

If he actually said the bolded thats idiotic. Soft tissues increase the risk of re occurence, they dont make you battle hardened.

Ive been big on our training loads and rehab staff because alot of the injuries and timeframes look like load and re occurence. If Ross said this, it doesnt suprise me at all and it desperately needs a review. He need a performance manager to challenge this, its not the 80s anymore.

Dumbest media take of the week (hard to do given the amount of dumb takes).

“He’s weighing up a two-year $800,000 offer in total up against a four-year $3 million deal from St Kilda,” Morris added.

“That’s a $2.2 million difference across the life of the deal.”

$400K a year average (GWS) v $750K a year average (StK). Over a 2 year period, being the term of the GWS offer, it is a difference of $700K. In itself, that is a big difference and blows the GWS offer out of the water, but the bobblehead is being is usually dramatic self by throwing out the $2.2M number, making us sound like Bill Gates.

Honestly this doesnt bother me with how its being reported. If its true were nearly double, per year, more and double the term. Anyway you wanna spin it were MILES over them.

If next year goes pear shaped then I have no doubt the succession plan will be enacted.

Do we actually have a succession plan? Like is this public knowledge like the Carr one? I know Enright seems to be the choice du jour of the board but is the club actually doing this?

Carroll is a break glass in emergency mid that had cost us nothing but a list spot.

Dow is a vastly better than Jam Tins Dunstan. He can actually execute a basic handball without turning it over. He’s just can’t get on the park.

Hill a club leader who deserved an extra 3 years on much reduced $.

Max signed the extension when he was fully fit & considered one of most important players to build around.

Collard is a super talented kid. 3 years gives him time & us the opportunity to get something in return if he packs it in.

Brad Hill is 32... There are a handful of players in the league over 30 who "deserve" multi year contracts. Hill isnt one of them.

 

[BrutThough]

Dumbest media take of the week (hard to do given the amount of dumb takes).

“He’s weighing up a two-year $800,000 offer in total up against a four-year $3 million deal from St Kilda,” Morris added.

“That’s a $2.2 million difference across the life of the deal.”

$400K a year average (GWS) v $750K a year average (StK). Over a 2 year period, being the term of the GWS offer, it is a difference of $700K. In itself, that is a big difference and blows the GWS offer out of the water, but the bobblehead is being is usually dramatic self by throwing out the $2.2M number, making us sound like Bill Gates.

Classic example of the media dramatising contracts for social media engagement.

 

[SainterinSydney]

Well it’s sort of known now that everyone at the club believed Battle was staying right until the day he confirmed he’s leaving so Tony would have suggested the same

Lyon and teammates were apparently shocked when they heard he was going as he told everyone up to last minute he was staying.

 

[ronnysnodgrass]

Dumbest media take of the week (hard to do given the amount of dumb takes).

“He’s weighing up a two-year $800,000 offer in total up against a four-year $3 million deal from St Kilda,” Morris added.

“That’s a $2.2 million difference across the life of the deal.”

$400K a year average (GWS) v $750K a year average (StK). Over a 2 year period, being the term of the GWS offer, it is a difference of $700K. In itself, that is a big difference and blows the GWS offer out of the water, but the bobblehead is being is usually dramatic self by throwing out the $2.2M number, making us sound like Bill Gates.

Yep read that too and was like WTF

 

[sammm]

You answered my question with a question. Obviously you can't answer the question.
Will ask again, what trades have we done that have been difficult?
I'll help, the Carlisle trade was difficult. Arguments it was Essendon but that was a difficult.
I'll help you even more, the multitude of players we have missed out on. How many were because the managers found us difficult to work with? Don't know could be a factor, or maybe just one of many reasons.
You see I don't necessarily think the report is untrue, it may be, but to blithely accept it as fact and then use it to pot the club, is a symptom of confirmation bias, grab anything percieved as negative towards the club to bemoan how bad the club is.
And to think you would trigger me, lol, sweetie, you ain't that important in my life, or even on this forum.
Love you gorgeous

We wouldn't accept future second for Xerri.
He is better now.