Autopsy Cats get the cream down the highway.

[SaintersUnite]

I’m surprised no one has mentioned Heath’s ruck work, I thought it was very good! Did a few really nice taps to advantage.

Despite missing his shot on goal I thought he played better this week compared to last. 2 contested marks as well.

 

[Speck]

I’m surprised no one has mentioned Heath’s ruck work, I thought it was very good! Did a few really nice taps to advantage.

Despite missing his shot on goal I thought he played better this week compared to last. 2 contested marks as well.

It was weird watching a good tap ruckman for once.

I'm not convinced on him long term, but he held his own enough of the time and performed as well as Stanley did for the Cats. You can tell we are less scared to go long down the line with him too, so he helps structurally. Also allowed us to give Marshall most of the last quarter forward.

A few decent games and he might have earnt himself another year.

 

[Speck]

Why does Cama get such a raw deal with the umps? It has been happening for a while. That Danger free kick when he collapsed to the ground and made Cama fall on his back grrr

He always looks a bit awkward and arrives to quite a lot of contests a split second late - so if he doesn't get the ball cleanly it often looks like a chop as the player is finishing the mark. Needs to learn Wilkie's art of subtly impeding the player over the off season.

 

[AirWinmar]

I’m surprised no one has mentioned Heath’s ruck work, I thought it was very good! Did a few really nice taps to advantage.

Despite missing his shot on goal I thought he played better this week compared to last. 2 contested marks as well.

Yeah I thought he played well for a 2nd gamer. Ruck work was quiet good and he competed well in the air, which doesn't go on the stat sheet but he brought a lot of ball to ground. 82% TOG as well

 

[aussierulesrules]

We’ve played 18 games now and guess how many we’ve had against bottom 8 teams, on our home ground?

1.

18 games, and just 1 against a bottom 8 team on our home ground.

It’s extraordinary that from 18 games so far we’ve played just 5 against the bottom 8 teams, but when you dig deeper, and see that 3 of those 5 were interstate, and just 1 on our home ground, it just reaches new levels of obscenity.

It’s hard to imagine that a team could have ever had a more difficult first 18 games in a season.

1 home game against a bottom 8 team from 18 games.

And we won that game by 80 points.

It’s like starting a 100m race from 10m behind everyone else. At least all the other lower ranked teams.

 

[geelong sajnt]

This game was lost in the first quarter, what a terrible start. Shocking game planning and the team were no where near switched on.

I wonder what Lyon was hoping to achieve by playing Tauru on Cameron. Cameron nearly kicked as many goals as Alix had possessions. It was almost as if Lyon was consciously throwing the game.

Stocker appears to have lost some mobility, but surely he could have managed Dangerfield.

For far too much of the game we allowed Geelong their over lap run, the made it look like a training drill. Our skill levels are no where near what's expected of a professional team.

The start was fine, we just did not use the ball well enough and they hurt us on the rebound. No issue with planning.

As for tauru playing on Cameron, what a learning opportunity for him. Could have just played the usual players and lost by 4 goals and gained nothing. Instead we developed "ru", hall got a midfield run etc. Get used to it as it's the smartest way to use the last month.

 

[BrutThough]

We’ve played 18 games now and guess how many we’ve had against bottom 8 teams, on our home ground?

1.

18 games, and just 1 against a bottom 8 team on our home ground.

It’s extraordinary that from 18 games so far we’ve played just 5 against the bottom 8 teams, but when you dig deeper, and see that 3 of those 5 were interstate, and just 1 on our home ground, it just reaches new levels of obscenity.

It’s hard to imagine that a team could have ever had a more difficult first 18 games in a season.

1 home game against a bottom 8 team from 18 games.

And we won that game by 80 points.

It’s like starting a 100m race from 10m behind everyone else. At least all the other lower ranked teams.

So ridiculous. It's things like this that make fans feels like the AFL is against them.

 

[Windtagger]

Yeah I thought he played well for a 2nd gamer. Ruck work was quiet good and he competed well in the air, which doesn't go on the stat sheet but he brought a lot of ball to ground. 82% TOG as well

Attended the game. He’s also a big unit and plays pretty tough. Good to another player apart from Chito whose strong and can play tough in the forward line.

 

[Nutsngum]

We’ve played 18 games now and guess how many we’ve had against bottom 8 teams, on our home ground?

1.

18 games, and just 1 against a bottom 8 team on our home ground.

It’s extraordinary that from 18 games so far we’ve played just 5 against the bottom 8 teams, but when you dig deeper, and see that 3 of those 5 were interstate, and just 1 on our home ground, it just reaches new levels of obscenity.

It’s hard to imagine that a team could have ever had a more difficult first 18 games in a season.

1 home game against a bottom 8 team from 18 games.

And we won that game by 80 points.

It’s like starting a 100m race from 10m behind everyone else. At least all the other lower ranked teams.

Ill bitch and moan about the way the EPL is run with player selling/money bullshit that entrenches a top 6 almost permanently whilst everyone else fights over scraps... but at least they enforce a play everyone twice, one at your HOME ground, one at theirs league. The 23 rounds vs random opponents the AFL thinks is acceptable is a ****ing joke.

 

[Diehard Saint]

He always looks a bit awkward and arrives to quite a lot of contests a split second late - so if he doesn't get the ball cleanly it often looks like a chop as the player is finishing the mark. Needs to learn Wilkie's art of subtly impeding the player over the off season.

Think he’s done pretty well considering it’s his first season in the backline. Can definitely see him making it his spot - but obv lots to learn.

Did he train pre-season with forwards or backs?

 

[Teflon]

I think the first quarter, Lyon must have instructed his players not to get any closer than 5 meters from their opponent. In his presser he more or less saw the problem with Geelong's extra man dropping back into defence, but did nothing about it until the next quarter- too slow to act, and we have lost games partly due to these bad first quarters which require a tactical repair in the second quarter.
We got beaten on the wings, and how their wingers played and we need to sort out the best options there. I thought Wilson started playing well in the third, but then got dragged so Clark could come on and do nothing in the last. Our midfield is slow by hand and foot, and got caught out too many times. Boxshall though is encouraging- good hands and works ok in the close contest.
I would play that team again next week with the exception of Clark who could go out for Dow

I think you’ll find Lyon alluded to players not having the level of concentration required to play the team instructed role that would also require on field to identify and make necessary adjustments
I think you belief they are all robots and Lyon just pulls big levers from upstairs…
As Leigh Matthew’s once said - coaches ability to influence games once in flight is over stated. Majority Coaches work is done in week leading up anyhoo we have a younger side is that drop in concentration really that unexpected? Did I expect them to go down to Geelong (who are fighting for top 4) and deliver an experienced, mature performance for 100 minutes ???? Of course not. We saw that with a Cats 5-8 minute burst in the 3rd
Pies did same in last to us when we got closer
Good sides can
We aren’t at that level yet but as long as we keep building the pieces , develop kids. Keep NAS I’m comfortable we are FINALLY not taking top up short cuts like we did under Lethlean

 

[gringo2011]

No from me also.

Alas however, we have only won two games out of our past fourteen matches, with him in the side. Is that correct?

Sadly, we appear to going backwards as a club. From my perspective, Ross the Boss 2 is a different coach than he used to be from 2007 to 2011. I am at times bamboozled by his selections and overall strategy. He seems to be a master of spin & deflection nowadays, has a much more mellow approach, and is reluctant to make a statement at the selection table.

I'm not sold on him being the long term answer to anything and our game plan looks pretty meh. That said he's got the footy department in a better place and he is building his own list this time. I hope we don't sit on a decision too long if he starts next year like this one went and move him on. I think this side has enough talent and mix of ages to be a middle of the ladder side.

If he can't do that maybe someone with a more attacking focussed GP and forward thinking coaching style is a better option. I'm not knifing him yet but I'd keep the knife sharp just in case.

 

[Nutsngum]

I think you’ll find Lyon alluded to players not having the level of concentration required to play the team instructed role that would also require on field to identify and make necessary adjustments
I think you belief they are all robots and Lyon just pulls big levers from upstairs…
As Leigh Matthew’s once said - coaches ability to influence games once in flight is over stated. Majority Coaches work is done in week leading up anyhoo we have a younger side is that drop in concentration really that unexpected? Did I expect them to go down to Geelong (who are fighting for top 4) and deliver an experienced, mature performance for 100 minutes ???? Of course not. We saw that with a Cats 5-8 minute burst in the 3rd
Pies did same in last to us when we got closer
Good sides can
We aren’t at that level yet but as long as we keep building the pieces , develop kids. Keep NAS I’m comfortable we are FINALLY not taking top up short cuts like we did under Lethlean

Agreed. Im not sure people really appreciate how hard it is to change things up during game play. Even if you can get a message out by runner to players its almost always specific instructions for them to do. Much is the same when theyre on the bench.

If you need a game plan changeup or structure change you really need to do it as a group which is why its so common to see big changes at quarter time to combat specific setups and the like.

 

[aussierulesrules]

So ridiculous. It's things like this that make fans feels like the AFL is against them.

Of course they are. The AFL doesn’t do things like this (or Gold Coast getting to play their first 5 games of the year against last year’s bottom 6 teams, or Carlton getting a piss-easy draw every year, no matter where they’d just finished), by accident.

 

[SG34]

Respectfully disagree with the sentiment - I’m more interested in a premiership than four points and to get one of those it would be good sense to have a core group of kids coming through and learning together against good teams.

Geelong, as good as they are (so consistent that basically everyone believes they’ve abused the salary cap in some way or another), have probably won the most 4 points out of any team in the last decade, they’re always finishing top 4 yada yada. They’d be the envy of a lot of clubs, but they’ve only won 1 flag in that time despite having a genuine shot at it most years (ignoring 07,09,11 great for them but that’s basically another era, one where we were also a top calibre team) and it was against a shite bedwetting Sydney side. They’ve been the best performed club by 4 points standards, but I’d prefer to be Richmond with 3 flags in the same time. I guess it’s really a moot point, as from a saints perspective we’d probably be over the moon with one top 4 finish… but if you dare to dream for more it starts with games like yesterday - both if you want to be like a Geelong or a Richmond.

Aside from all that, who would you have rather played than Tauru?

Fair points.
And I’d have picked Tauru. Anyway.
The only change might be Jones for either Henry or Hastie. Zac would would have given more value IMO.

I think the Richmond and Geelong cases are very interesting.

Here is the thing.
Richmond did not succeed by stockpiling high draft picks. So this idea that we drop four points to get better picks is not justified by the Richmond story. Rioli (Daniel) was pick 15 and a star yes, and Shai Bolton is incredible, but he was pick 29. The rest of their draft picks were duds. Exception is Dusty! But he was 8 years prior.

They traded well and they made that chaos game. So coaching and trade. That’s what we need too. We won’t get there tanking.


Geelongs success is real and I think it is enviable. Yes, just one flag since that run they had, but to have stayed competitive like this is extremely enviable. They might not be flag favorite, but I think most would agree they could pinch it on their day. To even admit that, hurts. And yes, it looks sus. They must have some very favorable things going on down there.

 

[Minga]

Fair points.
And I’d have picked Tauru. Anyway.
The only change might be Jones for either Henry or Hastie. Zac would would have given more value IMO.

I think the Richmond and Geelong cases are very interesting.

Here is the thing.
Richmond did not succeed by stockpiling high draft picks. So this idea that we drop four points to get better picks is not justified by the Richmond story. Rioli (Daniel) was pick 15 and a star yes, and Shai Bolton is incredible, but he was pick 29. The rest of their draft picks were duds. Exception is Dusty! But he was 8 years prior.

They traded well and they made that chaos game. So coaching and trade. That’s what we need too. We won’t get there tanking.


Geelongs success is real and I think it is enviable. Yes, just one flag since that run they had, but to have stayed competitive like this is extremely enviable. They might not be flag favorite, but I think most would agree they could pinch it on their day. To even admit that, hurts. And yes, it looks sus. They must have some very favorable things going on down there.

well said - at the end of the day there are so many variables involved it’s a miracle anyone wins the damn thing but of course someone always ends up on top of the heap.

Even just injury management is a key indicator of premiership contention.

Fortunately re: tanking, that is not the MO of the club and won’t be happening. Most likely scenario is another 2-3 wins imo, but I could see us winning up to 4 of our last 5. If we don’t get another 2-3 wins we are genuine bottom 4, but the upside of that is it’s all growth from there and we are well into building on that already.

 

[Speck]

I'm not sold on him being the long term answer to anything and our game plan looks pretty meh. That said he's got the footy department in a better place and he is building his own list this time. I hope we don't sit on a decision too long if he starts next year like this one went and move him on. I think this side has enough talent and mix of ages to be a middle of the ladder side.

If he can't do that maybe someone with a more attacking focussed GP and forward thinking coaching style is a better option. I'm not knifing him yet but I'd keep the knife sharp just in case.

I think we need to be in it for the long haul with Ross and this set of coaches - the never ending cycle of hiring and firing has to stop for a while.

I think that's likely a transition to Enright in the next 2-3 years with Lyon assisting or in an oversight role to make sure we aren't dropping standards thereafter. I want a mostly consistent approach for the next 5 years.

Of course we can shuffle some assistants around to bring new voices.

 

[hayes]

Not sure if Geelong went to sleep or not but the scoreboard can get really ugly down there if you’re not careful so at least we did a decent job there.

Clearly there are no words for Nas. If he goes then just close the joint up.

I know he’s young but for the love of god someone needs to tell Wilson that football is a contact sport and he should keep playing VFL until that sinks in. We don’t need another Brad Hill who for some reason is still in the side.

Didn’t get a lot of the ball but thought Henry showed some positive signs. Is it just me or has he lost a bit of zip? Hopefully it’s just the lack of preseason.

It’s sad that Steele has basically just become a 21 disposal 10 CP type guy. We’ve actually got too many young mids showing positive signs to persist with Steele and Macrae surely.

 

[stfan]

Dr Spaceman is this forums anchor being, we lose him and it’s all over.

Up, up and Away with Dr Spaceman!

 

[Teflon]

We’ve played 18 games now and guess how many we’ve had against bottom 8 teams, on our home ground?

1.

18 games, and just 1 against a bottom 8 team on our home ground.

It’s extraordinary that from 18 games so far we’ve played just 5 against the bottom 8 teams, but when you dig deeper, and see that 3 of those 5 were interstate, and just 1 on our home ground, it just reaches new levels of obscenity.

It’s hard to imagine that a team could have ever had a more difficult first 18 games in a season.

1 home game against a bottom 8 team from 18 games.

And we won that game by 80 points.

It’s like starting a 100m race from 10m behind everyone else. At least all the other lower ranked teams.

That is quite astonishing does any other side compare for such low amount home games against bottom 8 teams in their home deck ?
Send to Joey M/N Riewoldt
Just shithouse fixturing from a clearly corrupt organisation

 

[AirWinmar]

Think he’s done pretty well considering it’s his first season in the backline. Can definitely see him making it his spot - but obv lots to learn.

Did he train pre-season with forwards or backs?

Forwards

 

[AirWinmar]

Attended the game. He’s also a big unit and plays pretty tough. Good to another player apart from Chito whose strong and can play tough in the forward line.

Yeah I noticed he was throwing his weight around too, which is good to see

 

[Diehard Saint]

Not sure if Geelong went to sleep or not but the scoreboard can get really ugly down there if you’re not careful so at least we did a decent job there.

Clearly there are no words for Nas. If he goes then just close the joint up.

We won 2/4 quarters and they eventually won by the margin of the first. We did well not to be blown away which was looking highly likely already end of the first quarter.

Was a shame Steele missed that first goal.

 

[ThomasR]

It’s sad that Steele has basically just become a 21 disposal 10 CP type guy. We’ve actually got too many young mids showing positive signs to persist with Steele and Macrae surely.

Steele is still pretty important for us I think. Leads the comp in tackles over the last 4 weeks (3rd overall for the year). Kicking has not been great but he still does a heap of unheralded grunt work. Our clearance and contest work has been very good for a while now and he has been integral to that.

I am getting deja vu with what happened to Macrae at the Dogs. He has also been great, but when Garcia and Pou are available there will be a real squeeze for midfield minutes, and those two appear much more damaging in moving from inside to out.

I think the fact that both Steele and Macrae started on the bench in the last quarter with Nas and Hall in the middle was a nod to where we see things going

 

[Diehard Saint]

Forwards

I thought so.
Then he’s done really well considering.