List Mgmt. 2025 List Management discussion

[bergholt]

You’re underestimating how highly Nas is rated, this isn’t a Luke Ball situation ie a bloke with question marks around him. If he nominates for the draft he’s the best player in it by a mile. No way 17 clubs can ignore that.

He won’t get to the draft because all parties would know that if he does it is not going to end the way they want.

No club wants a homesick player who doesn't want to be there, undermining everything they're trying to do. It never happens for that reason. I know we want that to be an option, but it won't happen.

 

[bergholt]

Mate Ben Williams is not Paul Connors. He doesn’t have that pull and I’d love to see the struggling Eagles or North Or Richmond or Essendon pass on Nas.

Let's hope it doesn't come to that because they will.

 

[MightySaint]

Excuse the intrusion but there's a lot of people saying Butters is a real chance to end up at the Dogs at the end of this season.

We don't really have the draft capital for him, outside of our current pick 10 (which blows out due to compromises) and our 26 and 27 first round picks. But if Butters was involved in a trade for NAS I'd imagine it's more likely he is traded somewhere else for the picks used to acquire Nasiah.

You will have an insane team if Butters is playing for you next year. Nice!

 

[stavro#4]

Excuse the intrusion but there's a lot of people saying Butters is a real chance to end up at the Dogs at the end of this season.

We don't really have the draft capital for him, outside of our current pick 10 (which blows out due to compromises) and our 26 and 27 first round picks. But if Butters was involved in a trade for NAS I'd imagine it's more likely he is traded somewhere else for the picks used to acquire Nasiah.

And if you don’t have the draft capital for Butters, how does that help us in this hypothetical?

Are we getting Richards or Darcy?

 

[Yawkey way]

I think if Nas leaves and we can't get close to fair value, the point made by sending him to the draft would be a worthwhile one to make. We aren't winning anytime soon if we don't either have Nas or receive fair value in a trade.

Exactly, sorry but he’s playing the game within the rules and we’re entitled to do the same. Players have too much power and it benefits the top clubs.

The AFlPA keep pushing for more power maybe this needs to happen or our long term must be in doubt.

 

[Yawkey way]

Even if Nas says he wants out.

Williams has to be part of the negotiation to get him home. That means he has to understand what it will take from us and work with his SA club.

For example, last trade period the Collingwood/port/GC trade involving Houston and Noble etc had the player agents meet and work out the trade themselves and then present it back to the clubs.

You need honesty and goodwill on all sides, I’m not seeing it.

 

[Bald]

And if you don’t have the draft capital for Butters, how does that help us in this hypothetical?

Are we getting Richards or Darcy?

Collingwood didn't really have the draft capital for Houston but they made it happen. Unfortunately it's just how it goes, players go for unders all the time sadly. We've been super lucky with F/S and at times NGA but we've been dicked pretty hard with the Dunkley and Smith trades as well.

I don't see it happening at the end of 2025, I think it's more likely to happen at the end of 2026 as a free agent, but I just keep reading a lot of people saying it'll happen this year.

 

[Bald]

You will have an insane team if Butters is playing for you next year. Nice!

An insane midfield for sure, but I'm not sure we need to be adding to that area of the ground at the moment. Need a defender or four!

 

[stavro#4]

Collingwood didn't really have the draft capital for Houston but they made it happen. Unfortunately it's just how it goes, players go for unders all the time sadly. We've been super lucky with F/S and at times NGA but we've been dicked pretty hard with the Dunkley and Smith trades as well.

I don't see it happening at the end of 2025, I think it's more likely to happen at the end of 2026 as a free agent, but I just keep reading a lot of people saying it'll happen this year.

There is unders and there is nothing.

You, yourself just said that you don’t have the currency for Butters.

So it’s all good to say that the dogs get Butters and the Power get Nas.

Let me know what the saints end up with.

 

[jwikked]

I honestly believe it's line in the sand time. I'd be absolutely wrapped with the club if they were hard arses about this, even if we got nothing in the end.

It wouldn’t just be good for St Kilda (obviously a massive loss to lose Nas), but good for the football industry to normalize this. Clubs need to know that they can’t force an unfair trade

 

[Bald]

There is unders and there is nothing.

You, yourself just said that you don’t have the currency for Butters.

So it’s all good to say that the dogs get Butters and the Power get Nas.

Let me know what the saints end up with.

I think that if pushed, Port would let Butters go for pick 10, and the 26+27 first round picks (but if I'm Port I'm not doing that - was more my point). What they then do for Nas I'm not really sure. You guys know his value more than I do, but if Port came to you with Pick 10, two 26 firsts and a 27 first then I think that puts it close.

Dunkley won our best and fairest and whilst not our best player, and clearly not to the level of Nasiah, we still had to accept pretty ordinary bread crumbs for him. I'm not saying it's fair and I hate the system and how it works but ultimately if you've got a player who is out of contract and wishes to be traded, generally speaking it happens and the team losing the player gets perceived unders for him. If the club receiving the picks drafts well then hindsight will tell you that you didn't get unders, if they don't draft well then it looks bad. We used one of the main Dunkley picks on a player we delisted 2 seasons later, so we look at that trade poorly.

I've been pretty clear that I want Nasiah to remain at the Saints because I like the Saints a lot more than I like the Power, among other sentimental and loyalty reasons, but I'm a realist, if a player wants to leave then the club losing the player just generally gets dicked.

 

[Sully111]

You need honesty and goodwill on all sides, I’m not seeing it.

Either am I

 

[phantom13]

Pretty sure there's a standard contract for draftees for 3 years so he'd be sacrificing a shit ton of money. Around 3 million, if not more. Maybe I'm wrong and u can renegotiate but I don't think so. Would be the cheapest superstar of all time. So yea I think the threat of not getting paid is big.

Not if you enter the PSD opposed to the national draft. PSD you can nominate your terms.

The PSD issue for him is hes available to all clubs, he can nominate 2m a year but West Coast and Richmond will both pay that in a heartbeat. Worst case scenario for them they trade him in a year and get the deal we turned down (probably two firsts and a player) but does he really wanna go to West Coast for a year?

There is an element of safety for him to just sign with us if a deal doesnt get done.

Its a funny one cause pretty much every one (including Port supporters) agree that the PSD isnt "real" and wont happen but then they also say hes out of contract so we have to accept unders? You cant really have to OOC discussion if the PSD discussion isnt real.

To be clear i think if Nas nominates port (or the crows) its far more likely than not that we would trade him and that we will get under his market value (mostly because there isnt really anything that would satisfy us available anywhere) but how far under we would accept is the question.

Funny two weeks ago i said Bergman and a first, id probably take and Port supporters were furious at that. As of today Port would ****ing jump and throw in free hand jobs for the list managers at that deal. Nas value is off the ****ing chain.

 

[sainter7]

You will have an insane team if Butters is playing for you next year. Nice!

The rich get richer. Afl is becoming two tiered

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

The logical thing to do is the two year deal. If he really wants to go home he can move next year and it will give the sa clubs time to stock up on picks. I would also like to think that nas wouldn’t want to screw the club over that has done so much for him. These conversation will start coming up.

The two-year deal makes the most sense for all clubs involved... hopefully Nas too. If he chooses to leave now it's going to be an extremely painful drawn-out process for everyone, especially Nas.

In two years' time Tassie will be throwing picks around for senior bodies so Adel/Port will have a greater chance to drag in draft currency. Of course, it gives us two seasons to not only show Nas that our future is bright that will make him want to stay the course but also for him to grow to love living in Melbourne.

There has been talk about clubs being pretty excited about the 2027 draft class too. If losing Nas is inevitable then FFS please let us cash in at a super draft.

 

[phantom13]

I think that if pushed, Port would let Butters go for pick 10, and the 26+27 first round picks (but if I'm Port I'm not doing that - was more my point). What they then do for Nas I'm not really sure. You guys know his value more than I do, but if Port came to you with Pick 10, two 26 firsts and a 27 first then I think that puts it close.

Dunkley won our best and fairest and whilst not our best player, and clearly not to the level of Nasiah, we still had to accept pretty ordinary bread crumbs for him. I'm not saying it's fair and I hate the system and how it works but ultimately if you've got a player who is out of contract and wishes to be traded, generally speaking it happens and the team losing the player gets perceived unders for him. If the club receiving the picks drafts well then hindsight will tell you that you didn't get unders, if they don't draft well then it looks bad. We used one of the main Dunkley picks on a player we delisted 2 seasons later, so we look at that trade poorly.

I've been pretty clear that I want Nasiah to remain at the Saints because I like the Saints a lot more than I like the Power, among other sentimental and loyalty reasons, but I'm a realist, if a player wants to leave then the club losing the player just generally gets dicked.

I think the bolded is the issue TBH.

Nas siutation is pretty unique. Hes not Bailey Smith (who wanted out desperately and had behavioural issues) hes not Dunkley (who is a full blown weirdo and wasnt particualrly liked at the dogs and had tried to leave the year before too).

He is our best player, he is absolutely beloved and from all accounts equally loves the club. His only draw to leave is to go home.

Every report and discussion seems to centre around the fact that hes truly torn to the point that even now it seems he hasnt made up his mind.

There is still a really clear avenue for us to keep him if a trade falls through, the situation is much closer to him being contracted than it is to him being willing to walk to the PSD.

So yeh, we know if we do a deal we will get unders but we equally dont have to accept cents on the dollar

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

The rich get richer. Afl is becoming two tiered

The Dogs ain't rich.

They were smart post their 2009/2010 era.

Recently they've been kissed on the d!ck by lady luck (aka FS's)

And they are still a big chance to miss out on the 8.

An absolute indictment on Bevo... that list should be top 4.

 

[phantom13]

The Dogs ain't rich.

They were smart post their 2009/2010 era.

Recently they've been kissed on the d!ck by lady luck (aka FS's)

And they are still a big chance to miss out on the 8.

An absolute indictment on Bevo... that list should be top 4.

I cant ever decide if the Dogs or the Dees are the most underperformed side since us. I guess they both got one flag (and the dogs might get another if they ever get their shit together) the dees look totally ****ed now.

 

[Bald]

I think the bolded is the issue TBH.

Nas siutation is pretty unique. Hes not Bailey Smith (who wanted out desperately and had behavioural issues) hes not Dunkley (who is a full blown weirdo and wasnt particualrly liked at the dogs and had tried to leave the year before too).

He is our best player, he is absolutely beloved and from all accounts equally loves the club. His only draw to leave is to go home.

Every report and discussion seems to centre around the fact that hes truly torn to the point that even now it seems he hasnt made up his mind.

There is still a really clear avenue for us to keep him if a trade falls through, the situation is much closer to him being contracted than it is to him being willing to walk to the PSD.

So yeh, we know if we do a deal we will get unders but we equally dont have to accept cents on the dollar

Yeah I agree with pretty much all of this. There was always a bit of awkwardness around Dunkley after his trade request to Essendon (thank god they didn't offer us the Nik Cox/Archie Perkins first round picks lol).

Realistically though - Even if Port had a lot of draft collateral - there's nothing Port can offer for Nasiah that I imagine most Saints fans would accept as being reasonable, because even if it's two top 5 picks, you're still hoping those players are decent. Not telling you all anything you don't already know but give me the young star (a phrase that's overused, but very very appropriate in the case of Nasiah) over 2-3 highly touted hypotheticals any day.

 

[stavro#4]

I think that if pushed, Port would let Butters go for pick 10, and the 26+27 first round picks (but if I'm Port I'm not doing that - was more my point). What they then do for Nas I'm not really sure. You guys know his value more than I do, but if Port came to you with Pick 10, two 26 firsts and a 27 first then I think that puts it close.

Dunkley won our best and fairest and whilst not our best player, and clearly not to the level of Nasiah, we still had to accept pretty ordinary bread crumbs for him. I'm not saying it's fair and I hate the system and how it works but ultimately if you've got a player who is out of contract and wishes to be traded, generally speaking it happens and the team losing the player gets perceived unders for him. If the club receiving the picks drafts well then hindsight will tell you that you didn't get unders, if they don't draft well then it looks bad. We used one of the main Dunkley picks on a player we delisted 2 seasons later, so we look at that trade poorly.

I've been pretty clear that I want Nasiah to remain at the Saints because I like the Saints a lot more than I like the Power, among other sentimental and loyalty reasons, but I'm a realist, if a player wants to leave then the club losing the player just generally gets dicked.

Well Atleast you came to the table with 4 FRPs

 

[stavro#4]

phantom13 and i are agreeing again.


Either the world ends this week or Nas re-signs.

Has to be a sign, right?

Right!?!

 

[sainter7]

The Dogs ain't rich.

They were smart post their 2009/2010 era.

Recently they've been kissed on the d!ck by lady luck (aka FS's)

And they are still a big chance to miss out on the 8.

An absolute indictment on Bevo... that list should be top 4.

I meant the top 9 or 10 get better. The bottom 8 gets weaker. Two tiered.

 

[phantom13]

Yeah I agree with pretty much all of this. There was always a bit of awkwardness around Dunkley after his trade request to Essendon (thank god they didn't offer us the Nik Cox/Archie Perkins first round picks lol).

Realistically though - Even if Port had a lot of draft collateral - there's nothing Port can offer for Nasiah that I imagine most Saints fans would accept as being reasonable, because even if it's two top 5 picks, you're still hoping those players are decent. Not telling you all anything you don't already know but give me the young star (a phrase that's overused, but very very appropriate in the case of Nasiah) over 2-3 highly touted hypotheticals any day.

Yeh look, youre certainly gonna encounter some saints supporters who will say Butters, Georgiadies, your next two firsts and rights to JHF and Rozees father sons.

Im not doing that and for the most part the crew in here arent doing that, we will all disagree on what might be "acceptable" but for the most part we know were not getting fiar market value if a trade gets done.

We just wont (and dont have to) accept two fifths of **** all just because hes out of contract. The situation isnt like that.

 

[SainterinSydney]

Can someone pre-emptively put together a highlight reel of all of Nas' clangers so we can medicate ourselves on it if he decides to leave.

P.s. I still think he stays.

 

[MightySaint]

Can someone pre-emptively put together a highlight reel of all of Nas' clangers so we can medicate ourselves on it if he decides to leave.

P.s. I still think he stays.

Don't do it to yourself. It's the hope that kills ya!