List Mgmt. 2025 List Management discussion

[Winmar2Lockett]

SOS has fractured relationships with lots of people in the industry, it’s about par for him

Fancy being so pig headed that you don’t go to your sons 100 celebrations
What a flog

To be fair he did go to the game... he just didn't go into the Carlton rooms afterwards.

 

[StFly]

Ah , i was very busy preparing the pate for the spatchcock we were having for dinner when that was on and only glanced at the tv and thought it was real , silly old me must have had too much Grange that night

I imagine a world where;

Plans are made and a dinner had.
Outside, there is a guy up a tree or in a bush with a notepad, that guy is Tom Morris.
Notes are given, facial recognition is used to make sure if people are happy, sad, nonchalant, you name it.
Eventually, a bird craps on his face. Cause he's up a tree or in a bush, so of course.
If up a tree, those inside hear a childish scream.
If in a bush "did you just curse?" and shifty eyes as people move on from the interruption.
Absconding occurs from outside. Vouyers and busybodiers could see a guy falling over as he wipes his eyes and spits into random lawns.
Months pass. Ruminating occurs. Can he read his own writing, did the bird shit get into his dictaphone?
"You know what? I'll run it".
Onto the web, TV and into the print media space, excluding the bird shit instance.
Puffed chest cause eyes on. Winning.

Journalism must be exciting in footy. Wonder if it was an ibis...

 

[gringo2011]

WTF are you arguing here? It is certainly not the original post I put up.
It had nothing to do with TDK, nothing to do with market value, it was statements from rival clubs that he is worth 2 mill a year every single year for the sole purpose of driving up his price to one of the three clubs he land at. 15 clubs are not in the running so they say '2 million a year'
It seems you can't grasp this basic concept.
I would match or go above the 2 mill if he wants it and deal with the consequences later.
If he takes 2.1 a year for the 2 years his manager has asked us to prepare, what will he be willing to take in 2 years.

You carry on about not overpaying players and maxing out the SC but don't think of the consequences in two years if we are finals bound and he wants to stay. Will it be another 2 mill a year and destroy our cap?
You really struggle with basic financial concepts.

You gimps cheered at signing a broken down Max King on massive money but when we finally find an elite talent after 20 years you all want to low ball him out the door because he might want more money one day. If he doesn't sign a long term contract it might end up an advantage if he breaks down.

 

[stavro#4]

Nas is our first potential superstar since Riewoldt. Others can do whatever the **** they like but won't be getting offers from outside the club to inflate their value like Nas.

And Riewoldt only came close to bringing us success because he had fisher Hayes Dal Ball Kosi BJ Joey Milney etc.

Before that it was Plugger and for the most part it was plugger and 1 or 2 more and we got nowhere.

You have to keep building a side alongside nas. Hence TDK and Aleer. Soon it’s going to be pay time on Tauru. Trav. Wilson.

It’s not all about just keeping Nas happy. We need to keep everyone else we considering part of this future and simultaneously adding to it and the second part is the part that costs the absolute most to do

 

[MordySaint]

And then …. When there’s no money to keep Pou, Windy and Hall in 5 years time, people go ballistic at the list management at the club.

You just know it’ll happen.

We are in a good position if we are looking down the barrel of good young talent at our club.

But club needs to stagger players coming out of contract, an issue is that they all come out of contract at the same time.

The King deal was a very strange one at the end of last year, but hey at least we don't have to worry about that contract lapsing ever.

 

[aidansbonor]

So has Hall actually extended?

According to josh gabelich

 

[gringo2011]

What outcome are you on about!?

I’m openly saying I don’t want to lose him. But gearing your entire rebuild around a bloke who buggers off in 2 years is a significantly bigger problem than it is today.

That’s nothing but fact. The crows and power likely have the same assets on offer in 2 years than they do today.

They won’t magically have a top 5 pick in 2027. They have Tasmania right there.

Take off the Nas coloured glasses and be completely objective about this.

Whatever we are building by the end of 2027 is geared around Nas as the superstar. It falls apart if he goes.

It might be recoverable today from a list build point of view.

So you want to trade him out now do you? In two years Port or Adelaide still need draft capital or players to get him. Neither have anything now so it's not like a couple of shit picks now or some shit picks then are going to be a great bonus.

 

[Mowman]

To be fair he did go to the game... he just didn't go into the Carlton rooms afterwards.

Seriously he couldn’t put it aside for 45 minutes to celebrate something special with your son/child says a bit about him imo

 

[akaifu]

You gimps cheered at signing a broken down Max King on massive money but when we finally find an elite talent after 20 years you all want to low ball him out the door because he might want more money one day. If he doesn't sign a long term contract it might end up an advantage if he breaks down.

King isn't on massive money though thats the thing. Dilena & co are on record saying King decided to sign for us well below what other clubs were willing to offer

And NWM isn't being lowballed. His manager is just asking for too much - there's a difference

 

[stavro#4]

So you want to trade him out now do you? In two years Port or Adelaide still need draft capital or players to get him. Neither have anything now so it's not like a couple of shit picks now or some shit picks then are going to be a great bonus.

No I clearly said I don’t.

But people are sorely mistaken if they think losing nas in 2027 is better than losing him in 2025.

It sets us back significantly more in 2 years.

The only people that are satisfied in this reality are those that just want to watch nas play football. That’s an emotional attachment.

That’s not the reality of the business side of things.

 

[gringo2011]

Too short term, injured, not a needle mover. Waste of money and time

Invest in the youth

He would literally sure up our defence and fill the hole Battle left. Our defence went from our strength to our weakness when we took him out. He should be finishing up just as guys like Barratt or Tauru are starting to dominate.

 

[StFly]

Seriously he couldn’t put it aside for 45 minutes to celebrate something special with your son/child says a bit about him imo

Depends if he's welcome TBH, he is employed with us so maybe Carlton didn't want him in there?

You'd want receipts to be emphatic about relationship things.

 

[stavro#4]

Depends if he's welcome TBH, he is employed with us so maybe Carlton didn't want him in there?

You'd want receipts to be emphatic about relationship things.

Or maybe… he never made it about himself. There is significant issues between the Carlton FC hierarchy and SOS.

Irrespective of it being his son, it all becomes about SOS himself if he walks in those rooms and he removed himself to give his son the moment he deserved.

There are different view points to this. It’s not just one opinion that defines who is right or wrong with what he did.

 

[littlecreatures]

So my point that a long term commitment + a lot of money for the player is the right way to go.

As opposed to a 2 year commitment and lots of money to the player.

Re-read Stav, I don’t think that was the point.

 

[akaifu]

He would literally sure up our defence and fill the hole Battle left. Our defence went from our strength to our weakness when we took him out. He should be finishing up just as guys like Barratt or Tauru are starting to dominate.

We already have Aleer Wilkie Tauru Caminiti Howard/replacement able to play in key defence. I think it'd be more worthwhile investing in that group than recruiting a short-term fix

 

[CaptainRisky]

I imagine a world where;

Plans are made and a dinner had.
Outside, there is a guy up a tree or in a bush with a notepad, that guy is Tom Morris.
Notes are given, facial recognition is used to make sure if people are happy, sad, nonchalant, you name it.
Eventually, a bird craps on his face. Cause he's up a tree or in a bush, so of course.
If up a tree, those inside hear a childish scream.
If in a bush "did you just curse?" and shifty eyes as people move on from the interruption.
Absconding occurs from outside. Vouyers and busybodiers could see a guy falling over as he wipes his eyes and spits into random lawns.
Months pass. Ruminating occurs. Can he read his own writing, did the bird shit get into his dictaphone?
"You know what? I'll run it".
Onto the web, TV and into the print media space, excluding the bird shit instance.
Puffed chest cause eyes on. Winning.

Journalism must be exciting in footy. Wonder if it was an ibis...

Hey , say what you want mate but don't go blaming the the poor bin chicken ok,

 

[Sully111]

No I clearly said I don’t.

But people are sorely mistaken if they think losing nas in 2027 is better than losing him in 2025.

It sets us back significantly more in 2 years.

The only people that are satisfied in this reality are those that just want to watch nas play football. That’s an emotional attachment.

That’s not the reality of the business side of things.

So what is your point?

Your ACTUAL point with regards to how it relates to reality.

What would you have us do?

Let me ask you a couple of really specific questions.

1. If the only way Nas was going to sign was a 2 year contract worth 2 mil a year, but you knew without doubt he'd leave after those 2 years (I don't know how you'd actually know that... but for argument's sake), would you sign him?

I would

2. If the only way Nas was going to sign was a 2 year contract worth 2 mil a year, with a chance he'll stay at the end of those 2 years, would you sign him?

I would.

Obviously less money... longer contract etc is preferable... but that's not what I'm asking

 

[gringo2011]

No I clearly said I don’t.

But people are sorely mistaken if they think losing nas in 2027 is better than losing him in 2025.

It sets us back significantly more in 2 years.

The only people that are satisfied in this reality are those that just want to watch nas play football. That’s an emotional attachment.

That’s not the reality of the business side of things.

Bullshit. It doesn't do anything different now or then. We get a kid in that will probably take 4 to 6 years to start to produce a high impact and more likely a spud than a star in this draft. Neither side is going to offer up players of any great worth. Once Tasmania comes in they will have bulk picks. They will want to trade overs for ready made talent. Port could sell a good player for massive overs to reap picks.

Nas is a genuine potential best player St Kilda has ever produced type. He's probably worth the impact of 3 A grade players if he reaches his peak. He's Dusty, Buddy, Danger good IMO. I don't have an interest in watching a player. I want to win games and make finals and hopefully win a flag.

We can't attract GOPs to our club, let alone dream of trading in a champion. We are literally so desprate that we are paying $1.7 million a year for a GOP in a position that we don't need.

I get Windhager or Owens asking for overs isn't a binary decision but you just don't let your absolute stars leave no matter what. You just have to find a way to get him to lock himself to the club.

 

[gringo2011]

And if he signs him will we give him some credit?

Sure, he gets credit for doing his paid job like normal grown up gets.

 

[gringo2011]

We already have Aleer Wilkie Tauru Caminiti Howard/replacement able to play in key defence. I think it'd be more worthwhile investing in that group than recruiting a short-term fix

I'm thinking you'd drop the interest in Aleer and chase him.

 

[beside the seaside]

Sure, he gets credit for doing his paid job like normal grown up gets.

So no.

So he's trying to sort out the biggest contract in the history of the club. If he doesn't he should be sacked on the spot, if he does he gets no credit and in fact he still sucks because he didn't sign Max Hall on a longer deal or sign up his own son.

 

[stavro#4]

So what is your point?

Your ACTUAL point with regards to how it relates to reality.

What would you have us do?

Let me ask you a couple of really specific questions.

1. If the only way Nas was going to sign was a 2 year contract worth 2 mil a year, but you knew without doubt he'd leave after those 2 years (I don't know how you'd actually know that... but for argument's sake), would you sign him?

I would

2. If the only way Nas was going to sign was a 2 year contract worth 2 mil a year, with a chance he'll stay at the end of those 2 years, would you sign him?

I would.

Obviously less money... longer contract etc is preferable... but that's not what I'm asking

1. If he was going in 2 years and we knew that. I’d trade him now. You are going to get less than his value at both events. But we know what his value is now and we have to factor in it might not be higher in 2 years. We also get 2 years of development into whatever we get for him and cap space to attract a free agent or unsettled stars in 26.

2. If we don’t know, I’m negotiating a fair deal and giving ourselves room to move in negotiations in 2 years. Because if you have a $2m a season deal now - there is no way a 24 year old superstar is taking less then that in 2 years.


3. Give him $2m a season and build in Tv right deal increases… give us a 10 years.

 

[gringo2011]

And hypothetically do we look any different if Nas leaves in 2 years after paying him $2m+ a year?

If we are playing finals and look good it attracts other players wanting in. Even if he leaves we have created a perception of momentum. Playing bottom 4 footy for a couple of more years with no Nas is such a bleak concept that it's depressing to contemplate.

 

[akaifu]

I'm thinking you'd drop the interest in Aleer and chase him.

Getting JSOS doesnt solve our issues at full back. I doubt Wilkie + Tauru + JSOS can play in the same defence without an Aleer/Howard/Cordy/FB type locking away the opposition #1 forward

And even if that trio does work, we still won't have a long-term solution

 

[gringo2011]

And Riewoldt only came close to bringing us success because he had fisher Hayes Dal Ball Kosi BJ Joey Milney etc.

Before that it was Plugger and for the most part it was plugger and 1 or 2 more and we got nowhere.

You have to keep building a side alongside nas. Hence TDK and Aleer. Soon it’s going to be pay time on Tauru. Trav. Wilson.

It’s not all about just keeping Nas happy. We need to keep everyone else we considering part of this future and simultaneously adding to it and the second part is the part that costs the absolute most to do

So sign Nas and then worry about your two over paid spuds. I argued this when you were justifying the brilliance of paying ridiculous overs for TDK. You seem to have changed your entire attitude.