Autopsy Roast & Toast For Suns & Changes For Saints

[Julio Dulio]

are u aware if not for the last goal wouldve been our lowest score since the ealry 60s ?

Also if not for the first

 

[Dr Tigris]

OK, I'm going against the grain.

We played a very good side, well drilled, physically mature and aiming to get % and a top 4 spot. Our kids just couldn't physically impact.

We played fairly well, mostly made it hard for them to move the ball, and in general played OK.

EXCEPT --> Goal kicking was appalling.

Losing our main forward (That Jonty is our #1 KPF is both awesome and worrying) destroyed our structure. Balta is many things, but tonight he wasn't good defensively and he isn't a KPF. That we played Young as both a KPF and ruck is great in that we have confidence in him, and a worry as he isn't either thing. That meant our defensive structures also got knocked around.

I liked the structure we showed and that we stuck to it all night long. If we'd kicked straight and stuck a few marks it would have been a 40 - 60 point loss. Still bad but OK for where the teams are at.

Couple of points

• Some of the Suns are a step above where our guys are at. Rowell is a beast, Anderson fantastic. I reckon I'd rather back the Suns for the title than the Pies. Dimma knows what he is doing.
• Hopper is good at getting the ball and creating a solid presence. Without support and with the Suns targeting him our midfield struggled to control contests. If TT had played we might have been able to have greater control and so less damage. But we really need to develop our midfield over the next couple of years. We played MRJ, Campbell + in there tonight, and it was OK. But that extra class is not there right now.
• Sonsie's handballs are often so quick that our players are surprised when it hits them in the chest. I remember that being the case with Shedda until the team got more mature. So I am taking that as a positive (with a huge dose of salt just in case we don't learn how to use what Sonsie brings). Also he often was in a full on wrestle with whoever he was on. Seemed to play a physical/stopping role around contests a lot - didn't used to happen. So in some ways a lot of positives for a new emerging Sonsie.
• Nank is losing his mobility . Without him we have trouble.
• Armstrong is good. He and Faull will be a dangerous couple in a few years.
• Hotton super smart, but needs to learn to kick for goal. But we have winner here.
• Our defence can move the ball very well. We need the next few steps to happen to actually use what we have though. 1) Guys through the middle who can mark and move the ball, 2) Lead up forwards and mids who get into dangerous spots, and 3) Marking forwards who can compete with the best KPDs. So that's a lot of development. But we have a lot of the pieces on the list already. Now to mature them.
• Balta, a really good player. But I'm not sure he fits going forward. Miller and Young KPDs, Brown and Banks + Vlas and Short. Gibcus to come in. So our backline will be OK without him (excepting injuries). And he ain't a forward. Hmm. interesting times.
• KMac is smart and does so many right things. But he has slowed down and is now depth. For experience he plays another year. For development he retires.
• Our structures are sound, how we move the ball is good, our discipline is good. Great signs. But alongside that we have to continue hitting targets, making tackles stick, and finishing the job. Hopefully as they mature these things will happen more. However, from the start of this year the team has matured a lot.

Overall, poor goal kicking made a decent showing look terrible.


And yeah, the usual WTF about the umpiring. Soft frees for both sides and many missed for both sides. I have to accept that the AFL umpires are playing chook lotto with decisions. Every 8th time a high contact is paid etc. Just pisses me off.

 

[Chomp12]

can somebody list the positives of todays game? If there are any?

1. That it’s over

 

[Julio Dulio]

weeks?

If it’s low grade, it’s the season, if severe, longer

 

[baazzaa]

We just lost Bolton, Baker, Rioli, Dusty, Grimes, Picket and Graham in the off season and yet we've still taken a step forward this season.

Most of that is clearly injuries and fitness. Even when guys like Hopper were playing last year they were terrible because their body wasn't right.

It's certainly not because players like Mansell, Balta and Ross have improved (they haven't), nor the additions of Trainor, Sims, Faull, etc. (who might be doing okay as first-year players but certainly aren't helping us win games right now).

Our list is worse this year than last year, it'll be worse again next year and the year after IMO.

 

[Groupie_]

If it’s low grade, it’s the season, if severe, longer

but he will be right for pre season right?

 

[lalorGOAT]

can somebody list the positives of todays game? If there are any?

It's over

 

[lizard man]

“It starts with a vision”

 

[Julio Dulio]

but he will be right for pre season right?

Yeah it’s like max 10 weeks, serps will have him right in 20

 

[Dr Tigris]

Sonsie's biggest issue, is when its time to put his body on the line, he generally shirks the issue. His ball use is generally pretty good. If he could get in & crack hard, he would be picked on his disposal alone. The balls in his court, whether he wants a career or not.

Not sure you watched the game. Sonsie spent a lot of time smacking on physically. When he had to go he went. Torpeded into quite a few contests. But what surprised me was seeing him going into a full on wrestle with his opponent at ruck duels. Seemed a plan because I saw it a few times. I've not seen Sonsie being tasked with the full on physical shut down role before. That is, if you noticed what was going on outside the contest often Sonsie was doing hard physical stuff. And he was our only player (sometimes with Ross as well) doing that work.

So maybe Sonsie has some sort of shut down / blocking role around stoppages. But you can't tell on screen. And even then I follow the ball, so not sure what else is going on.

Anyway, that he is doing that sort of work is a huge step up for me. Good to see.

 

[Nostradumbass]

mild over reaction.

Nah

 

[Karp3_dm]

1 huge positive is the form Of Taj
He glides, he evades, he’s so smooth
Absolute jet

Wanna boof him

 

[Dr Tigris]

View attachment 2384146

Bugger

Poor kid.

Has had an amazing year though. Will be a star.

Already looks like a 70's movie star, if you know what I mean.

 

[tiger_tough]

can somebody list the positives of todays game? If there are any?

Yeah

Its over.

Sims stays I reckon train has a rest

Trainor still has his moments. Sims is being carried IMO.

Yeah it’s like max 10 weeks, serps will have him right in 20

+ conditioning.

 

[Groupie_]

Bugger

Poor kid.

Has had an amazing year though. Will be a star.

Already looks like a 70's movie star, if you know what I mean.

he looks a lot like johnny holmes actually

 

[Dr Tigris]

can somebody list the positives of todays game? If there are any?

We stuck to our system. Team has guts and discipline

We started to get our next generation of ball movers playing together

We can't kick for goal that badly again - surely.

 

[tigs2010]

but he will be right for pre season right?

43 week medial. When that get him back?

 

[Julio Dulio]

Trainor still has his moments. Sims is being carried IMO.

More so he’s probably due for a rest, Sims pretty fresh

 

[copthat]

43 week medial. When that get him back?

Still has to get through the Serpell fitness test after that.

 

[sanaya]

Still has to get through the Serpell fitness test after that.

just need to put his knee thru one final test before he plays

 

[Big Unit 30]

What’s Funny?

A club with 27 wooden spoons and one flag. It’s actually beyond funny to be that pathetic.

 

[cairo tiger]

weeks?

8-6

 

[cairo tiger]

OK, I'm going against the grain.

We played a very good side, well drilled, physically mature and aiming to get % and a top 4 spot. Our kids just couldn't physically impact.

We played fairly well, mostly made it hard for them to move the ball, and in general played OK.

EXCEPT --> Goal kicking was appalling.

Losing our main forward (That Jonty is our #1 KPF is both awesome and worrying) destroyed our structure. Balta is many things, but tonight he wasn't good defensively and he isn't a KPF. That we played Young as both a KPF and ruck is great in that we have confidence in him, and a worry as he isn't either thing. That meant our defensive structures also got knocked around.

I liked the structure we showed and that we stuck to it all night long. If we'd kicked straight and stuck a few marks it would have been a 40 - 60 point loss. Still bad but OK for where the teams are at.

Couple of points

• Some of the Suns are a step above where our guys are at. Rowell is a beast, Anderson fantastic. I reckon I'd rather back the Suns for the title than the Pies. Dimma knows what he is doing.
• Hopper is good at getting the ball and creating a solid presence. Without support and with the Suns targeting him our midfield struggled to control contests. If TT had played we might have been able to have greater control and so less damage. But we really need to develop our midfield over the next couple of years. We played MRJ, Campbell + in there tonight, and it was OK. But that extra class is not there right now.
• Sonsie's handballs are often so quick that our players are surprised when it hits them in the chest. I remember that being the case with Shedda until the team got more mature. So I am taking that as a positive (with a huge dose of salt just in case we don't learn how to use what Sonsie brings). Also he often was in a full on wrestle with whoever he was on. Seemed to play a physical/stopping role around contests a lot - didn't used to happen. So in some ways a lot of positives for a new emerging Sonsie.
• Nank is losing his mobility . Without him we have trouble.
• Armstrong is good. He and Faull will be a dangerous couple in a few years.
• Hotton super smart, but needs to learn to kick for goal. But we have winner here.
• Our defence can move the ball very well. We need the next few steps to happen to actually use what we have though. 1) Guys through the middle who can mark and move the ball, 2) Lead up forwards and mids who get into dangerous spots, and 3) Marking forwards who can compete with the best KPDs. So that's a lot of development. But we have a lot of the pieces on the list already. Now to mature them.
• Balta, a really good player. But I'm not sure he fits going forward. Miller and Young KPDs, Brown and Banks + Vlas and Short. Gibcus to come in. So our backline will be OK without him (excepting injuries). And he ain't a forward. Hmm. interesting times.
• KMac is smart and does so many right things. But he has slowed down and is now depth. For experience he plays another year. For development he retires.
• Our structures are sound, how we move the ball is good, our discipline is good. Great signs. But alongside that we have to continue hitting targets, making tackles stick, and finishing the job. Hopefully as they mature these things will happen more. However, from the start of this year the team has matured a lot.

Overall, poor goal kicking made a decent showing look terrible.


And yeah, the usual WTF about the umpiring. Soft frees for both sides and many missed for both sides. I have to accept that the AFL umpires are playing chook lotto with decisions. Every 8th time a high contact is paid etc. Just pisses me off.

hopper is good- at turning the ball over

 

[Blinger]

can somebody list the positives of todays game? If there are any?

Flossy was great down back, Hotton is going to be exciting into the future. Miller was solid down back & we got some more games into the kids.

 

[baazzaa]

So maybe Sonsie has some sort of shut down / blocking role around stoppages. But you can't tell on screen. And even then I follow the ball, so not sure what else is going on.

I've been watching him for weeks, they do share some sort of screening role (I think Ross will often do it at a CBA and then Sonsie will rush in from CHF then they'll swap roles, which is why they're always gesturing to one another.) Mind you it's clearly not working, our stoppage stats are appalling, but might explain their poor stats.

I'm more concerned about how aggressively he sits off the contest in transition. I think he's been told to do this by the coaching staff but it's too much. Oppo players will have all the time in the world to shrug off the Mansell/Green tackle because Sonsie is jogging 10m away in front guarding space instead of providing the follow-up tackle. If you track him instead of the ball it does look pretty bad.

Another possibility is he's gassed. He's been given the most demanding roles physically and the knock on him as a youngster was his endurance. No-one criticises his tank now but maybe he's forever playing in energy-saving mode. Seems more likely to me than being soft because he's not soft in marking contests, the VFL, etc.

One easy way to solve all these problems is just to play him on-ball offensively for the rest of the year. That's how he's always played. He was touted as a potential no1 pick in his junior year, he's not used to playing random defensive roles, he's better on both sides by hand or foot than all our midfielders are on their preferreds. We're using a ferrari as a tow-truck.