The off topic thread 6.0

[Sozabarus]

From what I know of the case he was a 19 year old kid who got forced in to it by his step dad. He plead guilty to his involvement and testified against the others involved.

It’s such a high profile case, it’s not a decision that would have been made lightly.

 

[chef]

Adrian Bayley

I worked with that scumbag for a couple of years in a Prahan bakery back in the late 90s.

 

[Bradesmaen]

Yeah I am with RPCB on this. Someone like that, Martin Bryant etc, Julian Knight, Adrian Bayley shouldn't be let out of prison.

That's why they get given the sentences they get given. This guy was given 26 years and he served them. He was also 19 at the time and clearly vulnerable. Hopefully he has been rehabilitated. The other two were rightfully given life sentences without parole due to the calculated and heinous nature.

 

[RPCB]

I’ll say that what’s done is done now and hopefully he has been rehabilitated. You only have to hope that he has been and he’s genuinely remorseful.

 

[Jatz]

Because people can't be rehabilitated? What's the point of prison then?

To keep the rest of society safe?

Obviously I have a bias here due to my cousin but I’ve always been of the belief that if you take a life, you should never be released. It’s absolutely ****ing gross that my cousins killer will be out in his early 40’s, free to get on with his life.

 

[SM]

To keep the rest of society safe?

Obviously I have a bias here due to my cousin but I’ve always been of the belief that if you take a life, you should never be released. It’s absolutely ****ing gross that my cousins killer will be out in his early 40’s, free to get on with his life.

Did you not read my follow up? If you don't believe in rehabilitation then what's the point?

Also, what "life" is he just getting on with after 25-30 years in jail?

 

[Cruyff14]

That's why they get given the sentences they get given. This guy was given 26 years and he served them. He was also 19 at the time and clearly vulnerable. Hopefully he has been rehabilitated. The other two were rightfully given life sentences without parole due to the calculated and heinous nature.

And I guess the flipside is if he recommits, more people suffer.

 

[SM]

And I guess the flipside is if he recommits, more people suffer.

Thats the point of the parole board is it not?

If we're locking people up for the potential to commit crimes..

 

[UnitedWarrior93]

May not have much ‘life’ to get on with but it’s more than those murdered, they have no life anymore.

 

[SM]

May not have much ‘life’ to get on with but it’s more than those murdered, they have no life anymore.

I guess no one's really answered my question though, the whole point of prison is to rehabilitate criminals. If the belief is that he can't be rehabilitated then why are we being punished by having to pay for his life? Bring in the death penalty. Wanting people locked up until they die just feels like a really weak middle ground.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

I guess no one's really answered my question though, the whole point of prison is to rehabilitate criminals. If the belief is that he can't be rehabilitated then why are we being punished by having to pay for his life? Bring in the death penalty. Wanting people locked up until they die just feels like a really weak middle ground.

Not its primarily to incarcerate and punish for their crimes and to keep public safe with the hope of rehab.

We pay because we don’t want to kill by death penalty.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Rehabilitation and release either by end of sentence or parole is a key pillar in the justice system, as is the stringent requirements for parole.

But I do agree with some advocating for those in the Milat, Bryant category who should never be let out. From reading a little on this case I have no immediate problems with the impending parole for this person. Appears to be a coerced accomplice not the mastermind, another involved is already paroled.

But I would say that in instances where the parole board makes a grave error like letting out Adrien Bayley there needs to be real consequences for that decision. A sorry as another family grieves simply isn't enough.

 

[SM]

Rehabilitation and release either by end of sentence or parole is a key pillar in the justice system, as is the stringent requirements for parole.

But I do agree with some advocating for those in the Milat, Bryant category who should never be let out. From reading a little on this case I have no immediate problems with the impending parole for this person. Appears to be a coerced accomplice not the mastermind, another involved is already paroled.

But I would say that in instances where the parole board makes a grave error like letting out Adrien Bayley there needs to be real consequences for that decision. A sorry as another family grieves simply isn't enough.

That's fine, then alter the jail sentences and penalties for those crimes. But you can't have it both ways and say that it's a 25 year or whatever sentence but oh at the end of 25 years actually we just want to keep them in.

 

[SM]

Not its primarily to incarcerate and punish for their crimes and to keep public safe with the hope of rehab.

We pay because we don’t want to kill by death penalty.

Bingo. And this guy has shown evidence of rehabilitation but that seems not good enough for some?

 

[Art Vandelay_]

That's fine, then alter the jail sentences and penalties for those crimes. But you can't have it both ways and say that it's a 25 year or whatever sentence but oh at the end of 25 years actually we just want to keep them in.

This instance had a life sentence with a non-parole period. So the sentence was life. He's been let out within his parole period because he's believed to be rehabilitated. I'm agreeing with you that parole is a key part of the system to rehabilitate inmates. I'm not advocating for the alteration of a sentence after the fact. Someone in for 10 years gets released after 10 years and so on.

But the small section of truly heinous individuals, those that are remorseless serial killers, serial rapists, serial pedophiles are beyond help and should be receiving life sentences with no release. Which they usually do.

 

[Jatz]

Did you not read my follow up? If you don't believe in rehabilitation then what's the point?

Also, what "life" is he just getting on with after 25-30 years in jail?

To keep them away from society, to stop them murdering others? Wtf do you mean what's the point?

A life that my cousin will never get to live. He can still have children, he can spend time with his family and friends. He can have fun and happiness. What can the victims get? Nothing. What do their family get? A lifetime of pain and then ultimately, the awful feeling knowing that that piece of shit gets to live free.

Anyone that takes a life, should spend the rest of their days locked up. I'll die on that hill.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

Bingo. And this guy has shown evidence of rehabilitation but that seems not good enough for some?

Well this guy might as he wasn't considered as culpable as the other three and for the reasons Sozabarus pointed out.

Julian Knight has been allowed to complete a law degree and follows the rules so you could say argue he's been rehabilitated. But main question is are they still a danger to society and for most serial killers that would probably be a yes. So yes i can see a reason to pay for these type until they die in prison. Which is different to the state killing them

 

[SM]

To keep them away from society, to stop them murdering others? Wtf do you mean what's the point?

A life that my cousin will never get to live. He can still have children, he can spend time with his family and friends. He can have fun and happiness. What can the victims get? Nothing. What do their family get? A lifetime of pain and then ultimately, the awful feeling knowing that that piece of shit gets to live free.

Anyone that takes a life, should spend the rest of their days locked up. I'll die on that hill.

Bloody hell I didn't say what's the point of a jail did I? I said what's the point of having a set term sentence if you're then just going to advocate for it being extended beyond the end of the set term. Why keep people in jail with the intention of releasing them if you're then going to say "Well even though they seem fine now, they committed such a heinous crime that they should stay locked up" then ok make the sentence for the duration of their life rather than the arbitrary 25 years. Or bring in the death penalty. Jails aren't cheap to run.

 

[Jatz]

Bloody hell I didn't say what's the point of a jail did I? I said what's the point of having a set term sentence if you're then just going to advocate for it being extended beyond the end of the set term. Why keep people in jail with the intention of releasing them if you're then going to say "Well even though they seem fine now, they committed such a heinous crime that they should stay locked up" then ok make the sentence for the duration of their life rather than the arbitrary 25 years. Or bring in the death penalty. Jails aren't cheap to run.

We're in agreeance on the duration of their life, rather than the arbitrary figure.

As for the death penalty - you happy to pull the trigger yourself on that? I don't think it should be understated how traumatic it would be to be in charge of killing someone, even with it being legally allowed.

Jails aren't cheap to run but they're clearly a necessity. For all the money that's wasted by our government, I don't consider that a waste at all.

 

[Jatz]

Something else that was infuriating - a lot of prisoners received reductions in sentences due to the 'stress' caused by covid during their prison term in Victoria.

I can't tell you how ****ing infuriating that is to me.

 

[SM]

We're in agreeance on the duration of their life, rather than the arbitrary figure.

As for the death penalty - you happy to pull the trigger yourself on that? I don't think it should be understated how traumatic it would be to be in charge of killing someone, even with it being legally allowed.

Jails aren't cheap to run but they're clearly a necessity. For all the money that's wasted by our government, I don't consider that a waste at all.

Why do I have to be happy to pull the trigger on it myself? Think that's a weird and arbitrary line of morality. Are you happy to slaughter a pig yourself in order to eat bacon?

 

[Jatz]

Why do I have to be happy to pull the trigger on it myself? Think that's a weird and arbitrary line of morality. Are you happy to slaughter a pig yourself in order to eat bacon?

So who's doing it then?

 

[Jatz]

Just outsource it to the US and be done with it I guess.

 

[SM]

So who's doing it then?

Eh?

 

[Jatz]

Eh?

Who are you asking to terminate these criminals? Rather than having them waste away in prison.