List Mgmt. Contracts/Trade/Draft Thread - 2025 Edition

[Keys]

Quick links

• Player contract status
• Draft prospect video highlights (thanks to noobermensch)

Players out of Contract 2025 (12)

Spoiler

• Oscar Allen (19/3/99) - Signed a 3 year extension (2023-25) on an existing contract due to expire 2022 in May 2021
• Campbell Chesser (27/4/03) - Signed a 2 year extension (2024-25) on an existing contract due to expire 2023 in May 2022
• Tom Cole (28/5/97) - Signed a 3 year extension (2023-25) in May 2022
• Rhett Bazzo (17/10/03) - Signed a 2 year extension (2024-25) on an existing contract due to expire 2023 in September 2022
• Jayden Hunt (3/4/95) - Signed a 3 year contract (2023-25) in October 2022
• Callum Jamieson (31/7/00) - Signed a 2 year extension (2024-25) in March 2023
• Jamie Cripps (23/4/92) - Signed a 2 year extension (2024-25) in August 2023
• Jack Petruccelle (12/4/99) - Signed a 2 year extension (2024-25) in August 2023
• (R) Loch Rawlinson (1/6/05) - Signed a 1 year extension (2025) in September 2024
• (R-B) Coen Livingstone (25/5/05) - Signed a 1 year extension (2025) in September 2024
• (R-B) Malakai Champion (17/5/06) - Automatic 1 year contract (2025) when added as a Cat B Rookie in November 2024
• (R) Jacob Newton (20/3/06/) - Automatic 6 month contract (2025) when drafted in May 2025

Provisional 2025 Draft order

Spoiler

 

[wce_all_da_way]

Good for Crippa that he gets a year to play with his cousin.

 

[Elite Pete]

Ffs Cripps is cooked

What has Scofield been saying ?

 

[Happy Mastenator]

So during 2020 he was great.
Sweet

He's not worth 4 picks though and Dev was an example not an excitement.

The Tim Kelly trade.

Not sure how we are better in anyway with having those four players on our list over Tim Kelly (yes yes i know we could have picked others, we also could have picked worse)



Comparison since trade

Tim Kelly - Coaches Votes - 177, Brownlow votes - 40, 1 Best and Fairest

Cooper Stevens - Coaches Votes - 0, Brownlow votes - 0, 1 Delisting
Jeremy Sharp - Coaches Votes - 4, Brownlow votes - 1, 1 Delisting
Nick Bryan - Coaches Votes - 0, Brownlow votes - 0
Ryan Angwin - Coaches Votes - 1, Brownlow votes - 0,
TOTAL - Coaches Votes - 5, Brownlow votes - 1, 2 Delistings

 

[woosha24]

Gold Coast have a few schmick forwards but I cant really see a world where West Coast satisfies them with a decent trade? Between Snake, Shanahan, A.Reid and the potential of Champion/ Brockman we're pretty ok up forward?

Unless there's an uncontracted superstar wearing red and yellow who wants a lick of the spoon?

 

[Deepthroat]

It's official.

There is no light at the end of the tunnel...

 

[Deepthroat]

Seriously dude. Just watch the last 4 years of our games again.
It hasn't been hammered into your head still.

Dev would be one of the first ten magnets on our whiteboard every week this year.

 

[Spange]

It's official.

There is no light at the end of the tunnel...

A hard decision needed to made and Cripps has been an awesome player for many seasons now. I’m glad the eagles had the balls to start cutting some of our senior players… oh wait what!

Keep and play him in the WAFl with shorter stints in AFL. That must be the plan.

 

[Broken_Chairs]

Almost the end of 2025 and another wooden spoon year winning 1 game and people are still excusing our shitness as if it was out of the blue and couldn't be anticipated.

I mean it's not like we've been in the comp for 40 years and never had players decline in performance at 30 years old is it now....
2019....most of our best players at 26 or 27....yeah they will last until 35 at least unlike our previous stars let's sell the farm for Kelly..fmd it was a bad kneejerk reaction to a ****ed up 2017 draft and the club tried to undo it by sacrificing our future which is now for 1 more flag supposedly.

Jeebus mcreebus the last 4 years is proof IT WAS A WRONG DECISION

Let's go on a journey, all the way back to Round 1 2020

It was a better time for us, spiritually, emotionally. You could tell someone you support West Coast with pride, people wouldn't laugh or look at you with pity.

We had just traded in 25 year old Tim Kelly, who in 2019 was AA and placed top 5 in the Brownlow. He was also the AFLPA best first year player in 2018 and the AFLCA best young player in 2019. Gun.

Some of the players on our list:

• Elliot Yeo – 26 (AA in 2017 & 2019, B&F 2018)
• Brad Sheppard – 28 (AA in 2020)
• Luke Shuey – 29 (Normboy, captain, B&F 2016 and 2019)
• Nic Naitanui – 29 (AA in 2012, 2020 and 2021, B&F 2020 and 2021)
• Jack Redden – 28
• Jeremy McGovern – 27 (AA in 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019 and 2024, B&F 2024)
• Dom Sheed – 24
• Andrew Gaff – 27 (AA 2015, 2018, B&F 2017)
• Daniel Venables – 21
• Willie Rioli – 24
• Tom Barrass - 24
• Liam Ryan - 23 (AA in 2020)
• Oscar Allen - 20 (future captain)
• Jake Waterman - 21 (Future AA)
• Jack Darling - 27 (AA in 2019, our leading goal kicker in 2018, 2019 and 2021)
• Jaime Cripps - 27

Our old folk were JK (32, AA in 2015, 2016 & 2017, Colman medalist 2015 & 2016, 8x our leading goal kicker inc. 2017, 2020, 2022), Hurn (32, AA 2018, 2019, AFLPA best captain 2019), Jetta (31)

We also had some role players I can't be effed to list, e.g. Drudgern (23, future captain) etc

A few things:

• IMO that's not an old list. I don't look at that group of players and think we are ****ED in 5 years. It's simply doesn't scream that a complete clean-out and rebuild is urgent.
• Tim Kelly was not a bad decision. He was only 25 and looked a superstar. Yes Cats had a great midfield, but we had Yeo 26, Gaff 27, Sheed 24, Redden 28 around him as a solid core even if Shuey, 29, might fade. You would expect that group of mids would remain solid/viable up to ~2025, as we top-up young talent around them.
• Yes we have historically struggled to keep players on the park post-30 (injury, party boy culture killers). But you can't ASSUME that when they're still performing.
• No other club would look at that list of players - their performances, age, injury history and think its over for them. There would have been medical profiling and risk analysis of our list. Decisions would have been informed by our docs - noting many of our injury issues arose out of freak/impact injuries.
• It is HARD for WCE to trade talent in unless they are WA natives and want to come home. We counter this by being a great employer, we look after our players and do what we can to keep our best. Did we take that too far - yes, but we don't have the same opportunities to "raid clubs" like Vic teams do.

Was trading for TK the wrong decision? I'm not convinced - the opportunity for success was obvious, the risk relatively low or rectifiable through future trades/drafting.

What was the alternative? We gave Geelong pick 16, 24 & 38 from 2019, pick 18 2020. Geelong gave us TK, pick 49 2019, pick 60 2020. Do you really think those few players would be a massive difference to our predicament now? Even if we did select Warner or Rivers... they're not going to turn the club around from where we're at now. In all likelihood we would have picked up some spuds and be delisting them now. Meanwhile, we wouldn't have had TK - who as maligned as he has been, has personally peformed v well overall.

Should we have traded all our players out? Who? When?

• Firstly, they would need to want to go
• Secondly, the shitshow began mid 2021, by the time we were in it our players we injured/forced retired and had lost their value.
• What picks would they bring us?
• We could have had shorter contracts and been pushed out the door - for what, next to nothing?

We could have made different choices - every club makes right and wrong decisions all the time and don't end up like us.

 

[Balls In]

Let's go on a journey, all the way back to Round 1 2020

It was a better time for us, spiritually, emotionally. You could tell someone you support West Coast with pride, people wouldn't laugh or look at you with pity.

We had just traded in 25 year old Tim Kelly, who in 2019 was AA and placed top 5 in the Brownlow. He was also the AFLPA best first year player in 2018 and the AFLCA best young player in 2019. Gun.

Some of the players on our list:

• Elliot Yeo – 26 (AA in 2017 & 2019, B&F 2018)
• Brad Sheppard – 28 (AA in 2020)
• Luke Shuey – 29 (Normboy, captain, B&F 2016 and 2019)
• Nic Naitanui – 29 (AA in 2012, 2020 and 2021, B&F 2020 and 2021)
• Jack Redden – 28
• Jeremy McGovern – 27 (AA in 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019 and 2024, B&F 2024)
• Dom Sheed – 24
• Andrew Gaff – 27 (AA 2015, 2018, B&F 2017)
• Daniel Venables – 21
• Willie Rioli – 24
• Tom Barrass - 24
• Liam Ryan - 23 (AA in 2020)
• Oscar Allen - 20 (future captain)
• Jake Waterman - 21 (Future AA)
• Jack Darling - 27 (AA in 2019, our leading goal kicker in 2018, 2019 and 2021)
• Jaime Cripps - 27

Our old folk were JK (32, AA in 2015, 2016 & 2017, Colman medalist 2015 & 2016, 8x our leading goal kicker inc. 2017, 2020, 2022), Hurn (32, AA 2018, 2019, AFLPA best captain 2019), Jetta (31)

We also had some role players I can't be effed to list, e.g. Drudgern (23, future captain) etc

A few things:

• IMO that's not an old list. I don't look at that group of players and think we are ****ED in 5 years. It's simply doesn't scream that a complete clean-out and rebuild is urgent.
• Tim Kelly was not a bad decision. He was only 25 and looked a superstar. Yes Cats had a great midfield, but we had Yeo 26, Gaff 27, Sheed 24, Redden 28 around him as a solid core even if Shuey, 29, might fade. You would expect that group of mids would remain solid/viable up to ~2025, as we top-up young talent around them.
• Yes we have historically struggled to keep players on the park post-30 (injury, party boy culture killers). But you can't ASSUME that when they're still performing.
• No other club would look at that list of players - their performances, age, injury history and think its over for them. There would have been medical profiling and risk analysis of our list. Decisions would have been informed by our docs - noting many of our injury issues arose out of freak/impact injuries.
• It is HARD for WCE to trade talent in unless they are WA natives and want to come home. We counter this by being a great employer, we look after our players and do what we can to keep our best. Did we take that too far - yes, but we don't have the same opportunities to "raid clubs" like Vic teams do.

Was trading for TK the wrong decision? I'm not convinced - the opportunity for success was obvious, the risk relatively low or rectifiable through future trades/drafting.

What was the alternative? We gave Geelong pick 16, 24 & 38 from 2019, pick 18 2020. Geelong gave us TK, pick 49 2019, pick 60 2020. Do you really think those few players would be a massive difference to our predicament now? Even if we did select Warner or Rivers... they're not going to turn the club around from where we're at now. In all likelihood we would have picked up some spuds and be delisting them now. Meanwhile, we wouldn't have had TK - who as maligned as he has been, has personally peformed v well overall.

Should we have traded all our players out? Who? When?

• Firstly, they would need to want to go
• Secondly, the shitshow began mid 2021, by the time we were in it our players we injured/forced retired and had lost their value.
• What picks would they bring us?
• We could have had shorter contracts and been pushed out the door - for what, next to nothing?

We could have made different choices - every club makes right and wrong decisions all the time and don't end up like us.

As you point out, that 2020 list is basically a premiership team on paper and with a decent age demographic. To take the club from that strong position to what we are now has been an absolute masterclass of incompetence. It's nearly impossible to even achieve what we've done. We have managed to get every facet of running a club wrong to have achieved such a feat and whatsmore a lot of people were calling it out in real time.

 

[Smotie2]

Let's go on a journey, all the way back to Round 1 2020

It was a better time for us, spiritually, emotionally. You could tell someone you support West Coast with pride, people wouldn't laugh or look at you with pity.

We had just traded in 25 year old Tim Kelly, who in 2019 was AA and placed top 5 in the Brownlow. He was also the AFLPA best first year player in 2018 and the AFLCA best young player in 2019. Gun.

Some of the players on our list:

• Elliot Yeo – 26 (AA in 2017 & 2019, B&F 2018)
• Brad Sheppard – 28 (AA in 2020)
• Luke Shuey – 29 (Normboy, captain, B&F 2016 and 2019)
• Nic Naitanui – 29 (AA in 2012, 2020 and 2021, B&F 2020 and 2021)
• Jack Redden – 28
• Jeremy McGovern – 27 (AA in 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019 and 2024, B&F 2024)
• Dom Sheed – 24
• Andrew Gaff – 27 (AA 2015, 2018, B&F 2017)
• Daniel Venables – 21
• Willie Rioli – 24
• Tom Barrass - 24
• Liam Ryan - 23 (AA in 2020)
• Oscar Allen - 20 (future captain)
• Jake Waterman - 21 (Future AA)
• Jack Darling - 27 (AA in 2019, our leading goal kicker in 2018, 2019 and 2021)
• Jaime Cripps - 27

Our old folk were JK (32, AA in 2015, 2016 & 2017, Colman medalist 2015 & 2016, 8x our leading goal kicker inc. 2017, 2020, 2022), Hurn (32, AA 2018, 2019, AFLPA best captain 2019), Jetta (31)

We also had some role players I can't be effed to list, e.g. Drudgern (23, future captain) etc

A few things:

• IMO that's not an old list. I don't look at that group of players and think we are ****ED in 5 years. It's simply doesn't scream that a complete clean-out and rebuild is urgent.
• Tim Kelly was not a bad decision. He was only 25 and looked a superstar. Yes Cats had a great midfield, but we had Yeo 26, Gaff 27, Sheed 24, Redden 28 around him as a solid core even if Shuey, 29, might fade. You would expect that group of mids would remain solid/viable up to ~2025, as we top-up young talent around them.
• Yes we have historically struggled to keep players on the park post-30 (injury, party boy culture killers). But you can't ASSUME that when they're still performing.
• No other club would look at that list of players - their performances, age, injury history and think its over for them. There would have been medical profiling and risk analysis of our list. Decisions would have been informed by our docs - noting many of our injury issues arose out of freak/impact injuries.
• It is HARD for WCE to trade talent in unless they are WA natives and want to come home. We counter this by being a great employer, we look after our players and do what we can to keep our best. Did we take that too far - yes, but we don't have the same opportunities to "raid clubs" like Vic teams do.

Was trading for TK the wrong decision? I'm not convinced - the opportunity for success was obvious, the risk relatively low or rectifiable through future trades/drafting.

What was the alternative? We gave Geelong pick 16, 24 & 38 from 2019, pick 18 2020. Geelong gave us TK, pick 49 2019, pick 60 2020. Do you really think those few players would be a massive difference to our predicament now? Even if we did select Warner or Rivers... they're not going to turn the club around from where we're at now. In all likelihood we would have picked up some spuds and be delisting them now. Meanwhile, we wouldn't have had TK - who as maligned as he has been, has personally peformed v well overall.

Should we have traded all our players out? Who? When?

• Firstly, they would need to want to go
• Secondly, the shitshow began mid 2021, by the time we were in it our players we injured/forced retired and had lost their value.
• What picks would they bring us?
• We could have had shorter contracts and been pushed out the door - for what, next to nothing?

We could have made different choices - every club makes right and wrong decisions all the time and don't end up like us.

You're missing my point and the point of this retrospective discussion which has been done to death.

The Kelly deal was a last tilt at a flag with that group. It didn't work as we now know.

It DID sacrifice out mid 20's team to a large degree, not a small degree and the club could easily have looked back at players falling off a cliff over the last 35 years to know it really was 1 year of premiership contention.

Was it worth that risk? That's conjecture.

Would I trade our flag in 2018 for not having the last 4 years of shit? No.

Would I trade the potential of a flag for this? Yes.

I wasn't advocating trading any players for Kelly. I'm simply saying once we drafted brander and Kelly was a great player at Geelong the price in draft picks and current shit we paid for him was too much.

Would those picks turn out good for us if we kept them? Nobody knows but what we do know is trading 4 picks for 1 player massively increased our odds of failure instead of taking 4 new players.

It's the difference of putting all your money on 1 number in roulette as opposed to 4.

 

[JackOutback]

in both 2019 and 2020, we fell out of the top four with a loss in the last round. Both those years could have been very different and I suspect it wasn't list profile or balance that was the problem then.

 

[Farang83150]

Its 2025, gotta move on.

 

[stallon]

Gold Coast have a few schmick forwards but I cant really see a world where West Coast satisfies them with a decent trade? Between Snake, Shanahan, A.Reid and the potential of Champion/ Brockman we're pretty ok up forward?

Unless there's an uncontracted superstar wearing red and yellow who wants a lick of the spoon?

If a guy like Walter is on the table, you make it happen.
You move other pieces to fit him in.

Was talked up as the rival to Harley at pick 1 in the 2023 draft.

We could offer pick 1 or 2, and should if hes on the table

 

[Dark Sharks]

Would do pick 2 in a shit draft for Spaceclefs boy Walter every day of the week.

Not sure Fold Coast would go for it but who knows.



Still not worth the discussion until it's actually confirmed anywhere else besides Schofield's one bullshit podcast comment.

 

[EaglesOz]

Ryan Daniels
@FootyRhino
·
1m


After bringing up game 250 for the club late this season,
@WestCoastEagles
veteran Jamie Cripps is set to extend his career into a 16th season. A one year contract extension expected to be agreed on for 2026.

Our club making a mistake after mistake. No brainer to delist. Until the list management team gets a rebuild, we're not going far.

 

[Farang83150]

Would do pick 2 in a shit draft for Spaceclefs boy Walter every day of the week.

Not sure Fold Coast would go for it but who knows.



Still not worth the discussion until it's actually confirmed anywhere else besides Schofield's one bullshit podcast comment.

2 bullshit podcast comments actually!

 

[EaglesOz]

If a guy like Walter is on the table, you make it happen.
You move other pieces to fit him in.

Was talked up as the rival to Harley at pick 1 in the 2023 draft.

We could offer pick 1 or 2, and should if hes on the table

Its early, and only watched him a few times, but he fails the eye test. He has all the tools but hasn't put them together yet, though he may. Plus he plays the one role we really don't need, KPF.

 

[Couchpotato]

Let's go on a journey, all the way back to Round 1 2020

It was a better time for us, spiritually, emotionally. You could tell someone you support West Coast with pride, people wouldn't laugh or look at you with pity.

We had just traded in 25 year old Tim Kelly, who in 2019 was AA and placed top 5 in the Brownlow. He was also the AFLPA best first year player in 2018 and the AFLCA best young player in 2019. Gun.

Some of the players on our list:

• Elliot Yeo – 26 (AA in 2017 & 2019, B&F 2018)
• Brad Sheppard – 28 (AA in 2020)
• Luke Shuey – 29 (Normboy, captain, B&F 2016 and 2019)
• Nic Naitanui – 29 (AA in 2012, 2020 and 2021, B&F 2020 and 2021)
• Jack Redden – 28
• Jeremy McGovern – 27 (AA in 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019 and 2024, B&F 2024)
• Dom Sheed – 24
• Andrew Gaff – 27 (AA 2015, 2018, B&F 2017)
• Daniel Venables – 21
• Willie Rioli – 24
• Tom Barrass - 24
• Liam Ryan - 23 (AA in 2020)
• Oscar Allen - 20 (future captain)
• Jake Waterman - 21 (Future AA)
• Jack Darling - 27 (AA in 2019, our leading goal kicker in 2018, 2019 and 2021)
• Jaime Cripps - 27

Our old folk were JK (32, AA in 2015, 2016 & 2017, Colman medalist 2015 & 2016, 8x our leading goal kicker inc. 2017, 2020, 2022), Hurn (32, AA 2018, 2019, AFLPA best captain 2019), Jetta (31)

We also had some role players I can't be effed to list, e.g. Drudgern (23, future captain) etc

A few things:

• IMO that's not an old list. I don't look at that group of players and think we are ****ED in 5 years. It's simply doesn't scream that a complete clean-out and rebuild is urgent.
• Tim Kelly was not a bad decision. He was only 25 and looked a superstar. Yes Cats had a great midfield, but we had Yeo 26, Gaff 27, Sheed 24, Redden 28 around him as a solid core even if Shuey, 29, might fade. You would expect that group of mids would remain solid/viable up to ~2025, as we top-up young talent around them.
• Yes we have historically struggled to keep players on the park post-30 (injury, party boy culture killers). But you can't ASSUME that when they're still performing.
• No other club would look at that list of players - their performances, age, injury history and think its over for them. There would have been medical profiling and risk analysis of our list. Decisions would have been informed by our docs - noting many of our injury issues arose out of freak/impact injuries.
• It is HARD for WCE to trade talent in unless they are WA natives and want to come home. We counter this by being a great employer, we look after our players and do what we can to keep our best. Did we take that too far - yes, but we don't have the same opportunities to "raid clubs" like Vic teams do.

Was trading for TK the wrong decision? I'm not convinced - the opportunity for success was obvious, the risk relatively low or rectifiable through future trades/drafting.

What was the alternative? We gave Geelong pick 16, 24 & 38 from 2019, pick 18 2020. Geelong gave us TK, pick 49 2019, pick 60 2020. Do you really think those few players would be a massive difference to our predicament now? Even if we did select Warner or Rivers... they're not going to turn the club around from where we're at now. In all likelihood we would have picked up some spuds and be delisting them now. Meanwhile, we wouldn't have had TK - who as maligned as he has been, has personally peformed v well overall.

Should we have traded all our players out? Who? When?

• Firstly, they would need to want to go
• Secondly, the shitshow began mid 2021, by the time we were in it our players we injured/forced retired and had lost their value.
• What picks would they bring us?
• We could have had shorter contracts and been pushed out the door - for what, next to nothing?

We could have made different choices - every club makes right and wrong decisions all the time and don't end up like us.

Great post.

I'd also add another piece that gets overlooked - and actually helps argue we were lucky to do the Kelly trade - the picks we traded out were ultimately COVID impacted. The 2020 draft in particular was a guessing game at best, given no one had played any junior football.

The time of our rebuild - call it 2022 - 2027 - at least means we weren't trying to pick up a core group of players out of covid affected years. It's possibly perfectly timed between COVID and before Tassie.

/blind optimism

 

[Deepthroat]

We give up Pick 2 so next year we play Waterman, Reid, Shanahan and Walter in the forward line?

We still have no ruck or mids to kick it to them, but yeah...............

 

[Elite Pete]

Gold Coast have a few schmick forwards but I cant really see a world where West Coast satisfies them with a decent trade? Between Snake, Shanahan, A.Reid and the potential of Champion/ Brockman we're pretty ok up forward?

Unless there's an uncontracted superstar wearing red and yellow who wants a lick of the spoon?

Let’s play this out as it could be true. Goss and Schofield have both sort of gone with it but their source might be the same ect.

There is one big reason why he would do it. Money, clearly the money we would be offering the Suns won’t be be able to get near it. Yes he was a WA lad and yes he was an Eagles supporter but they would be minor things in why he would would possibly leave GC for WC.

Walter, Snake and Jobe would be a lot of potential for now and the next 10 years*.

Why would GC do it? Got a star on the hook and need assets? Curnow looked so maybe. Dimma has been saying they have been taking calls and are shopping for stars. They need assets to get these players while also matching their academy kids this year.

Also take pick 2 now while they have him contracted. If he doesn’t hit the highs this year, I doubt we are trading a top 5 pick for him next year with him being OOC.

Does it happen? I doubt it but there is always a few shocks in the offseason.

 

[RustyShacklefordFalcon]

 

[Smotie2]

The Tim Kelly trade.

Not sure how we are better in anyway with having those four players on our list over Tim Kelly (yes yes i know we could have picked others, we also could have picked worse)

View attachment 2388347

Comparison since trade

Tim Kelly - Coaches Votes - 177, Brownlow votes - 40, 1 Best and Fairest

Cooper Stevens - Coaches Votes - 0, Brownlow votes - 0, 1 Delisting
Jeremy Sharp - Coaches Votes - 4, Brownlow votes - 1, 1 Delisting
Nick Bryan - Coaches Votes - 0, Brownlow votes - 0
Ryan Angwin - Coaches Votes - 1, Brownlow votes - 0,
TOTAL - Coaches Votes - 5, Brownlow votes - 1, 2 Delistings

Asked and answered read above

 

[Elite Pete]

2 bullshit podcast comments actually!

What was the 2nd one?

WAs favourite Goss did post this not long ago randomly.

 

[Farang83150]

What was the 2nd one?

WAs favourite Goss did post this not long ago randomly.

Poorly worded by me, I meant Schofields mentioned it on 2 different occasions.

 

[Convocation]

This is such an enjoyable thread to read...... So pleased to be reading about trades done years ago that can't be undone, but no lets have page after page explaining why the tarde was bad, why its screwed the club, why it was right at the time bla bla bla, all in a thread that I believe is supposed to be about contracts, trades and the draft........