List Mgmt. 2025 List Management discussion - part 2

[SainterinSydney]

Let's be real, Windy has shown good solid form back end of this season and looks to have a bright future. However he is OOC and is no star yet. You know we will be offered a second rounder at best if he leaves. It is better to sign him (without overpaying).

 

[Diehard Saint]

Still won't be surprised if TDK ends up at Geelong

Interesting that Ross actually referenced everyone thinking Buddy was off to GWS and it completely blindsided when he went to Sydney.
Says no one really knows until its done.

 

[SainterinSydney]

Interesting that Ross actually referenced everyone thinking Buddy was off to GWS and it completely blindsided when he went to Sydney.
Says no one really knows until its done.

Imagine if Nas leaves, Windy leaves, TDK goes to Geelong and all we end up with his Leek Aleer lol

 

[phantom13]

Imagine if Nas leaves, Windy leaves, TDK goes to Geelong and all we end up with his Leek Aleer lol

SAINTS FOOTY

 

[buck12]

Well I think the correct assumption is that this is all done before requesting a trade out.

Williams job is to ensure he understands what it’s going to take to get a deal done in a trade and he would have to get assurances of how either club would go about that.

If they aren’t sure and are willing to risk things like the draft - which Nas won’t.

Then he negotiates a deal with us for Nas to stay. Which is the likely outcome hence the 2 year deal scenario being discussed.

If however, long term deals are about to get axed in the next 12 months. Any good player manager would be wanting his clients on these mega deals before they are outlawed.

Wouldn't this make him more likely to go though as he will get a long term deal and get to be in South Aus if he leaves as oppose to having a long term deal in Melbourne if he stays.

 

[AFaiL]

No one in the history of the afl this good has ever gone to the pre season draft. Would you risk it if you were port?

That's the thing - they don't need to take a single risk. If he nominates them, it's done. They offer whatever, within 'reason' and we take it or take it.

We need players being walked for nothing to the PSD to start forcing teams to pay up. Port have the capital (butters), they just dont have to part with it as the system stands.

Players have too much control, which means "destination" or "home state" clubs go futher and further in front. This is a huge test case for the AFL. Struggling shit club uncovered superstar who wants to leave - do we go backwards 10 years or actually get rewarded. Hundreds of players have been touted as the next big thing, only to spend 4 years in a club and go nowhere. Nas didnt become this good from nothing, the team damn well developed it. There needs to be significan reward and the way to guarantee that is the clubs being able to trade you to the highest bidder.

 

[stavro#4]

Wouldn't this make him more likely to go though as he will get a long term deal and get to be in South Aus if he leaves as oppose to having a long term deal in Melbourne if he stays.

He only goes if a deal can be done.

That doesn’t change any circumstances.

What it might change is the potential to unlock a long term extension with us - if it’s agreed that the above trade can’t happen because port don’t have assets.

 

[stavro#4]

That's the thing - they don't need to take a single risk. If he nominates them, it's done. They offer whatever, within 'reason' and we take it or take it.

We need players being walked for nothing to the PSD to start forcing teams to pay up. Port have the capital (butters), they just dont have to part with it as the system stands.

Players have too much control, which means "destination" or "home state" clubs go futher and further in front. This is a huge test case for the AFL. Struggling shit club uncovered superstar who wants to leave - do we go backwards 10 years or actually get rewarded. Hundreds of players have been touted as the next big thing, only to spend 4 years in a club and go nowhere. Nas didnt become this good from nothing, the team damn well developed it. There needs to be significan reward and the way to guarantee that is the clubs being able to trade you to the highest bidder.

I disagree. Otherwise he would have already announced he was going to Port for example.

Whether we believe there is a threat of the draft or not.

The only fact is that to get to SA, it needs to come via trade. If we say no and he goes to the draft. He ends up elsewhere.

If all they are offering is crap then that’s all we are missing out on… crap

 

[Joffaboy]

If I was an Essendon supporter and the club traded their frdp for Windy and pay him 800k, after what the Dodo put them through all those years and the horrible deals like Mackay, Sheil and Gresham, I would just about call it a day.

Windy is a fine player but that deal would be on a par with Bleaches brother going to the nepo's for pick two.
On our side we lose a big part of the culture by building the group up together however it would give us a chance of say Greeves and Pou's younger brother which would help the culture to have both Pou's together, apart from him being a very good prospect in his own right.

 

[thekizzler]

When has King played ruck to say that’s when he plays best?

Most people would say his best is at CHF where he can run and leap at everything.

Is there an argument to replicate how Gold Coast has used Ben King?

An exclusive stay at home full-forward. They don't really require King to tackle or present much up the ground.

King has had exactly 100 kicks and 74 of them have been a goal or a behind (57:17). It's extraordinary efficiency for his kicks and speaks volumes for how they use him.

It's an interesting debate. Maybe we should hone in on Max's strengths more instead of trying to fix his weaknesses.

 

[phantom13]

Is there an argument to replicate how Gold Coast has used Ben King?

An exclusive stay at home full-forward. They don't really require King to tackle or present much up the ground.

King has had exactly 100 kicks and 74 of them have been a goal or a behind (57:17). It's extraordinary efficiency for his kicks and speaks volumes for how they use him.

It's an interesting debate. Maybe we should hone in on Max's strengths more instead of trying to fix his weaknesses.

We dont (or didnt) have their midfield and support up forward.

We could but theres a reason we havent yet

 

[Captain Paddy]

Not sure about paying a potential B+ player 850k per year

Ideally he signs for at most 700k for 2 years, then once he's a proven B+ player he can get his 850k or even more

What do you think a B+ player salary looks like if the average wedge is now around $450-$500k

 

[tony74]

It appears that with Nas, nobody knows what's going on- Nas, his manager, the Saints, his teammates, other clubs, his family, the media, fans..nobody knows.

A lot of people know, they are just very very good keeping it in house.

 

[botts]

That's the thing - they don't need to take a single risk. If he nominates them, it's done. They offer whatever, within 'reason' and we take it or take it.

We need players being walked for nothing to the PSD to start forcing teams to pay up. Port have the capital (butters), they just dont have to part with it as the system stands.

Players have too much control, which means "destination" or "home state" clubs go futher and further in front. This is a huge test case for the AFL. Struggling shit club uncovered superstar who wants to leave - do we go backwards 10 years or actually get rewarded. Hundreds of players have been touted as the next big thing, only to spend 4 years in a club and go nowhere. Nas didnt become this good from nothing, the team damn well developed it. There needs to be significan reward and the way to guarantee that is the clubs being able to trade you to the highest bidder.

That’s not how it works. You can’t just nominate a club. He isn’t a father son. It’s called draft tampering and there are rules against it

 

[SainterinSydney]

A lot of people know, they are just very very good keeping it in house.

 

[Captain Paddy]

Is there an argument to replicate how Gold Coast has used Ben King?

An exclusive stay at home full-forward. They don't really require King to tackle or present much up the ground.

King has had exactly 100 kicks and 74 of them have been a goal or a behind (57:17). It's extraordinary efficiency for his kicks and speaks volumes for how they use him.

It's an interesting debate. Maybe we should hone in on Max's strengths more instead of trying to fix his weaknesses.

That's how we tried to use Max... We just didn't have Rowell, Anderson, Touk, Flanders and Co winning the contest and kicking it forward... he was leading to Seb Ross

 

[jwikked]

That’s not how it works. You can’t just nominate a club. He isn’t a father son. It’s called draft tampering and there are rules against it

Players do it all the time

 

[phantom13]

Do people really not want to pay Windy $800k?

Like if thats the line between stay or go youd rather let him go for a second rounder than just pony up the $800k?

 

[saint joey]

A lot of people know, they are just very very good keeping it in house.

any idea when it will be annouced?

 

[botts]

Players do it all the time

B graders do. Not people like nas

 

[phantom13]

That’s not how it works. You can’t just nominate a club. He isn’t a father son. It’s called draft tampering and there are rules against it

Welllll...

He can for the trade, thats fine.

If the trade doesnt happen he can go into the PSD and everyone will know he wants Port but he cant refuse a club.

Its been discussed alot, West Coast would snap him up even if he just refused to play. Theyd be buying draft picks at the absolute worst.

 

[gringo2011]

I think he was very good in 2023 but otherwise yeh.

I suspect the injuries have impacted that too. Small forward is (imo) the toughest position, having to battle that without any continuity to build on.

Lyon’s very structured game plan doesn’t allow freedom and creativity. Membrey got back to what he’s always been once he got out. Butler is a front runner and needs to break free. If he’s staying close to his opponent he’s not finding space.

 

[ThomasR]

100%.

It’s all a gamble and I said as much above.

You’ll either be seduced by what pick 10 could be or you back in that what windy is is what he is and your happy for another 200 games of that.

trying to quantify the gamble... (and sorry for banging on about coaches votes)

in the 10 years leading up to and including Windy's draft, there have been 6 players taken picks 8-12 who polled coaches votes in more games by the same age - Naughton, Butters, Green, Pickett, Serong, Nas

they are all great names. but then 44 / 50 polled in fewer

so say a 12% chance we get a gun and 88% chance we end up with the equivalent of Windy or lesser (at least in terms of ability to poll coaches votes)

if he wants out it's not the end of the world as we could end up with a better player in the so-called fullness of time. but I wouldn't be taking those odds voluntarily

 

[Moquo]

A lot of people know, they are just very very good keeping it in house.

Thanks Tony, any take on the Windhager contract?

 

[saint_]

Is there an argument to replicate how Gold Coast has used Ben King?

An exclusive stay at home full-forward. They don't really require King to tackle or present much up the ground.

King has had exactly 100 kicks and 74 of them have been a goal or a behind (57:17). It's extraordinary efficiency for his kicks and speaks volumes for how they use him.

It's an interesting debate. Maybe we should hone in on Max's strengths more instead of trying to fix his weaknesses.

St.Kilda like to use a high defensive structure too due to our lack of height down back, so unfortunately I don't see that happening with us.