Autopsy Essendon v St Kilda (Round 23)

[Diehard Saint]

He's the coach, if he truely wanted him on the ball no one is stopping you Ross. Killing his and Pou's development

It’ll happen next season. In his presser I think he mentioned something about not playing both Steele and McCrae.
Maybe Steele does move on?

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

Windy did a ton of good defensive work. Not sure if you take that into account?

Yeah l did see it.
Fair enough

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

It’ll happen next season. In his presser I think he mentioned something about not playing both Steele and McCrae.
Maybe Steele does move on?

Macrae in his 1st year of 3.
He's definately not moving on.

 

[SG34]

That fuels my optimism. We get Po in the middle FT, a better ruckman, a FF and hopefully general improvement from the glut of 18 to 24 year olds and we could push for the 8. That said, being so NWM centric, if he stays, will be an issue I think.

Yep, the goal is not for us to help Marshall get more stats, it is to win. And when we had Ryder, we had that. Lower Marshall dominance, but better overall results.

I wonder how we would stop Nas if he's an opponent player? You'd guess we'd be as stymied as the others have been this year. Although he can get too clever sometimes. Maybe exploit that as he ages.

I don't think we can expect any improvement in Steele, Jones, Wood, Hill, Doogs, Byrnes, Butler, Marshall, Wilkie and a few others over the next couple of seasons. They are already on the brink. At best, injury-free, a gentle plateau on a glide, followed by a 'safe landing' in the seconds or a celebrated chair-off the field, media, coaching and live happily everafter. They will also have to play the percentages unless they turn into taggers or subs.

For the younger ones I don't know what to expect. Owens started '25 well but his deficiencies are now more apparent. Ditto Sharman. Windy is no longer a future A-Grader, he's a 'solid citizen and great clubman'. Not to put him down as he's a definite starter. Henry ? Pou (I better watch myself - I hope he'll be more than Billings) If he is a star, we'll have a battle on our hands keeping him out of the SA clubs in a couple of years.

The great finds of '25 have been Hall and Box Hill and the Viking. Ironically, the former is from Box Hill. And the latter is a Hall. Hopefully, we can get both in the box for the long haul.

Maybe the two giant tall timbers we've tried in the last few weeks might be good?

Hastie?
A possible Coffield? Not quite yet.
I haven't been blown away level impressed by anyone else, but I've been impressed that we've been so competitive. In Garcia we have a goer.

Again, sorry to bang on, but we did try an attacking game for a while early-mid season and got spanked. We can't afford to play like that.

 

[ESPN8 The Ocho]

The great finds of '25 have been Hall and Box Hill and the Viking. Ironically, the former is from Box Hill. And the latter is a Hall. Hopefully, we can get both in the box for the long haul.

That is an unexpected paragraph.
Possibly the best play on words this season.

I’m in awe.

 

[g_TRAIN]

Yep, the goal is not for us to help Marshall get more stats, it is to win. And when we had Ryder, we had that. Lower Marshall dominance, but better overall results.

I wonder how we would stop Nas if he's an opponent player? You'd guess we'd be as stymied as the others have been this year. Although he can get too clever sometimes. Maybe exploit that as he ages.

I don't think we can expect any improvement in Steele, Jones, Wood, Hill, Doogs, Byrnes, Butler, Marshall, Wilkie and a few others over the next couple of seasons. They are already on the brink. At best, injury-free, a gentle plateau on a glide, followed by a 'safe landing' in the seconds or a celebrated chair-off the field, media, coaching and live happily everafter. They will also have to play the percentages unless they turn into taggers or subs.

For the younger ones I don't know what to expect. Owens started '25 well but his deficiencies are now more apparent. Ditto Sharman. Windy is no longer a future A-Grader, he's a 'solid citizen and great clubman'. Not to put him down as he's a definite starter. Henry ? Pou (I better watch myself - I hope he'll be more than Billings) If he is a star, we'll have a battle on our hands keeping him out of the SA clubs in a couple of years.

The great finds of '25 have been Hall and Box Hill and the Viking. Ironically, the former is from Box Hill. And the latter is a Hall. Hopefully, we can get both in the box for the long haul.

Maybe the two giant tall timbers we've tried in the last few weeks might be good?

Hastie?
A possible Coffield? Not quite yet.
I haven't been blown away level impressed by anyone else, but I've been impressed that we've been so competitive. In Garcia we have a goer.

Again, sorry to bang on, but we did try an attacking game for a while early-mid season and got spanked. We can't afford to play like that.

Saints games rank 4th in average total points per match this year, the old “dour Ross Lyon” tag is dead in 2025

What’s fascinating is Richmond sit dead last (18th) in that same stat. They’re defending stoutly but can’t score.

Our best footy came early in the season when we attacked with freedom, but stronger sides punished us. I still think we can play that way again once the younger players get more experience, provided we hold onto NAS and make smarter list decisions.

 

[SG34]

Saints games rank 4th in average total points per match this year, the old “dour Ross Lyon” tag is dead in 2025

What’s fascinating is Richmond sit dead last (18th) in that same stat. They’re defending stoutly but can’t score.

Our best footy came early in the season when we attacked with freedom, but stronger sides punished us. I still think we can play that way again once the younger players get more experience, provided we hold onto NAS and make smarter list decisions.

I've liked your comment but...

What is 'our best footy'?
The most attractive?
The one most likely to get us a win?
Are they mutually exclusive? Maybe no, but might percentages ask us to, 'pick your poison'

I don't think the 'dour Ross Lyon' tag is dead, even if it's Cory E pulling the levers now.
We get slammed in the press and by oppo fans and even our own fans for a dull and dour game style.
We get slammed for waiting until the fourth quarter to 'turn it on'

But I concede, I don't know really, how attacking we were. We lose both Bulldogs games by 70+ points. How did we play differently in those games? What did we learn?

Maybe, it's a long season, and in recent weeks, the Saints have decided to win a few?

 

[g_TRAIN]

I've liked your comment but...

What is 'our best footy'?
The most attractive?
The one most likely to get us a win?
Are they mutually exclusive? Maybe no, but might percentages ask us to, 'pick your poison'

I don't think the 'dour Ross Lyon' tag is dead, even if it's Cory E pulling the levers now.
We get slammed in the press and by oppo fans and even our own fans for a dull and dour game style.
We get slammed for waiting until the fourth quarter to 'turn it on'

But I concede, I don't know really, how attacking we were. We lose both Bulldogs games by 70+ points. How did we play differently in those games? What did we learn?

Maybe, it's a long season, and in recent weeks, the Saints have decided to win a few?

The first half against Geelong was the clearest glimpse of our best footy this year.

Right now, playing a more attacking style probably wouldn’t deliver more wins and may lead to some bigger losses, but that’s more a reflection of the list’s immaturity than the game plan itself.

I mentioned Richmond because it’s interesting to see them lean heavily into a defensive setup, which suits their profile at the moment. That works for them now, but as lists mature it generally pays to shift the balance toward attack, just as it would for us.

From a pure scoring perspective we’re not overly attacking, sitting around 11th for points for, right in line with our ladder spot. To me, that says if we can push into the top four, our offensive output would likely rise in step.

 

[gringo2011]

Really, well let's see who ends up the better player , think you're selling Garcia a bit short

I rate both.

 

[CaptainRisky]

Did you watch Freo last night. Had almost a full list but were pantsed by a Bris missing quite a few and playing a.number of under 23s...yes we know about the father and sons gees Logan Morris can play.

Boxshall looks like Steele 2.0
Compare Trav to Goddard's first year who was slow got caught htb all the time, but he could kick.
Taura is ahead of Riewoldt who didn't even play year 1.....
Pou in the forward line ia like North with Mason Wood always injured but became a star on the wing with us.
Wilson year 2...Joey hadn't played 10 games at same point.
Garcia shown more than Seb Ross at same stage for that matter Lenny Hayes.
We almost won a flag with Gilbert who couldn't kick but was athletically gifted.. Owens is similar.
Sharman has Gunston vibes and at the same stage he was not even at Hawks bit still an unknown at Adelaide.
Caminti has Danny Frawley vibes after only his 3rd season.
Windy is a GoF and we always need them...do anything play anywhere type.
Hall ffs Hall ffs Hall ffs...built and plays like Lachie Neale in his early days.
Thats 10 players that could be anything at the same stage of those stars development.
Throw in Dodson, Trav, Hastie, Shoey, LOC, who have shown a fair bit but still early doors... we are going okay.

Personally hope Nas stays and we will find out soon enough and the reason why the delay. If he goes reckon we trade Keeler if there is value and Collard for whatever WCE will pay.

Windy will sign I believe...he is testing the market to show Saints what he is worth and fair enough, I would do the same.

Marshall to Geelong makes sense for both clubs...if Saints see it that way.

Steele has no PoD for other clubs other than those needing a Parker type and like Macrae will finish at Saints end of next year.

Adelaide and Hawks were looking the goods one year then shit then rising again the next year. Development is not linear.
Mich rather have beaten teams the last 4 weeks ugly than play really well kick 15 goals and be two and two.
Lot to like aboutcwhere we are going.
The media loves to put the boots into Ross as he challenges dumb reporting. No one other than Joey and David King have mentioned that we have in effect turned over well over half our list with draft picks mostly outside of frdp. Lazy journalism says oh trade out stars to get frdp requires three years of no scrutiny.

No one talked about Naz at the start of the year and now not only is he the biggest story in town and how could StKilda be so inept not to have him signed but if he leaves its the end of the club and its seems to be all RTBs fault.

Neither is true, but let me say this the top clubs will do their homework on him for next year and he will not get the armchair ride of no scrutiny like he has had in the second half of this year.

Would you rather be Carlton Melbourne or for that matter Freo at the moment. Next year we will back on the fringes of the 8 and from there who knows.. Naz will just get us there a bit quicker...

END OF RANT

This sounds like the pre season posts where we have our own version of Bont, Danger, Tom Stewart, Libba just to name a few , just because we have a nice list of young players doesn't mean they all end up stars.
I wouldn't be banking on Nas being around, he has to be gone , I'd bet my left one on it

 

[Banger9798]

Boxshall becoming an outlet marking player on the wing is impressive

Love Boxy, everything about him. Tough as nails, great hands, second and third efforts, strong mark, sneaky quick.

 

[mad-saint-guy]

Did you watch Freo last night. Had almost a full list but were pantsed by a Bris missing quite a few and playing a.number of under 23s...yes we know about the father and sons gees Logan Morris can play.

Boxshall looks like Steele 2.0
Compare Trav to Goddard's first year who was slow got caught htb all the time, but he could kick.
Taura is ahead of Riewoldt who didn't even play year 1.....
Pou in the forward line ia like North with Mason Wood always injured but became a star on the wing with us.
Wilson year 2...Joey hadn't played 10 games at same point.
Garcia shown more than Seb Ross at same stage for that matter Lenny Hayes.
We almost won a flag with Gilbert who couldn't kick but was athletically gifted.. Owens is similar.
Sharman has Gunston vibes and at the same stage he was not even at Hawks bit still an unknown at Adelaide.
Caminti has Danny Frawley vibes after only his 3rd season.
Windy is a GoF and we always need them...do anything play anywhere type.
Hall ffs Hall ffs Hall ffs...built and plays like Lachie Neale in his early days.
Thats 10 players that could be anything at the same stage of those stars development.
Throw in Dodson, Trav, Hastie, Shoey, LOC, who have shown a fair bit but still early doors... we are going okay.

Personally hope Nas stays and we will find out soon enough and the reason why the delay. If he goes reckon we trade Keeler if there is value and Collard for whatever WCE will pay.

Windy will sign I believe...he is testing the market to show Saints what he is worth and fair enough, I would do the same.

Marshall to Geelong makes sense for both clubs...if Saints see it that way.

Steele has no PoD for other clubs other than those needing a Parker type and like Macrae will finish at Saints end of next year.

Adelaide and Hawks were looking the goods one year then shit then rising again the next year. Development is not linear.
Mich rather have beaten teams the last 4 weeks ugly than play really well kick 15 goals and be two and two.
Lot to like aboutcwhere we are going.
The media loves to put the boots into Ross as he challenges dumb reporting. No one other than Joey and David King have mentioned that we have in effect turned over well over half our list with draft picks mostly outside of frdp. Lazy journalism says oh trade out stars to get frdp requires three years of no scrutiny.

No one talked about Naz at the start of the year and now not only is he the biggest story in town and how could StKilda be so inept not to have him signed but if he leaves its the end of the club and its seems to be all RTBs fault.

Neither is true, but let me say this the top clubs will do their homework on him for next year and he will not get the armchair ride of no scrutiny like he has had in the second half of this year.

Would you rather be Carlton Melbourne or for that matter Freo at the moment. Next year we will back on the fringes of the 8 and from there who knows.. Naz will just get us there a bit quicker...

END OF RANT

Some wild statements here.

Gunston was an unknown at Adelaide at the same age as Sharman is now? Nope, he'd played 6 seasons at Hawthorn, winning three flags and was regularly kicking 50+ goals. This season is the first time Cooper cracked 20 goals.

Travaglia is like early Goddard?? More like early Ryan Byrnes.

Lachie Neale was playing mid and averaged 33.5 disposals at Hall's age (avg 15.2 disposals).

Not sure how you can say Tauru is "ahead of Riewoldt" just because Roo was injured for most of his first year.

Caminiti has put in an honest effort this year in defence but comparing him to Frawley is laughable.

There's positivity, and then there's delusion.

 

[dudeintheswamp]

Have had some (non footy) friends staying the last few days so only got to watch the game yesterday. I'll tell you something, had the last kick of the game sailed through, I'd have not been logging in to bigfooty this week!

 

[Dr Spaceman]

It seems that the air has well and truly gone out of the tyres for season 25.

If last week didnt feel like a win, **** knows what tonight feels like.

Just watched the replay and the commentators were really talking the game up.

Yes I know that’s their job to do, but they were going overboard. I suppose it helped that it was close all night.

I think Dwayne referring to it as being like “finals football” was my personal favourite.

Perhaps it wasn’t quite as bad as it felt at the time

 

[SG34]

I am starting to build a NAS is going shield. After his comments to the media on the weekend , “obviously it’s a family thing” bla bla…that’s just about the the best piece of deception or it spells, ‘nail-in-the-coffin’ .

So my self-defence goes like this.
1. NAS is good at fetching the ball, but it often ends up with an oppo player (never mind it also often ends up well for us)
2. The constant distraction we suffered as fans all year, after the shocking departure of Battle last year, also preceded by foggy disguise, is unwelcome- and even if he signs for two more years with us, how long before it starts all over again? 12 months?
3. He will be under enormous pressure in SA and is likely to be targeted. He’s finely built.
4 I will think of something else to bolster the other excuses soon.

 

[Leap of Faith]

I am starting to build a NAS is going shield. After his comments to the media on the weekend , “obviously it’s a family thing” bla bla…that’s just about the the best piece of deception or it spells, ‘nail-in-the-coffin’ .

So my self-defence goes like this.
1. NAS is good at fetching the ball, but it often ends up with an oppo player (never mind it also often ends up well for us)
2. The constant distraction we suffered as fans all year, after the shocking departure of Battle last year, also preceded by foggy disguise, is unwelcome- and even if he signs for two more years with us, how long before it starts all over again? 12 months?
3. He will be under enormous pressure in SA and is likely to be targeted. He’s finely built.
4 I will think of something else to bolster the other excuses soon.

Admirable copium. But that centre clearance, two bounces and goal from 50 was just elite. The bummer chasing him was falling farther behind as Nas bounced and ran like a panther. Pure class. Have to be top 3 or 5 in the comp now. Massive loss if he goes.

 

[ScrappyDo]

I agree with many of your points.

What concerns me are the stark differences in our style/approach at various points throughout the past 2 years.

We are more than capable of playing an attacking style that seems to bring the most out of players. It also involves everyone, not just Nas taking on 3 players and hitting someone inside 50 or the scoreboard. When we do take the game on, the players that at times can't hit the side of a barn door look adequately skilled.

Because of that, Im optimistic about our list generally. The real concern is that for huge chunks of this season, we are stagnant, meek, slow and play a deplorable style with no apparent method. During these periods, it is deeply concerning. I, and assume many others, pull my hair out watching and wonder where we're headed.

I gather from Ross' pressers he doesn't quite know how to get them playing the former more frequently. I reckon the optics of the latter style then colour people's view on our list.

I take the view that the stagnant slow stuff comes from the desire to remain in control but perhaps perhaps a lack of initiative to try and break the game open a bit, coupled with whatever the oppo are doing to kill our run. Generally it shows pretty quickly when players in front of the ball aren't running to create options which is 90% a mental issue which can be attributed to the players not being switched on and close tagging from the oppo who have clearly figured out that playing man on man is how to stop the Saints.
Our lack of height makes it difficult to move the ball in the air and the youthful squad means they can get bullied by mature bodies. The fix for it all is time, experience and KPP availability. "'If" the trade period pans out and King somehow manages to come good we're gonna have much more power in the air and bigger bodies around the ground to support the kids.
Ross has been consistent about Building out the list, which basically means making the cake. It's clear that we have that to a large degree but it's still based on under 22yo players. They just need more time in the oven.

 

[Saintbloke]

Admirable copium. But that centre clearance, two bounces and goal from 50 was just elite. The bummer chasing him was falling farther behind as Nas bounced and ran like a panther. Pure class. Have to be top 3 or 5 in the comp now. Massive loss if he goes.

Im thinking maybe we won't get an announcement on contracts until Brownlow night, after Nas wins the medal.

 

[Kennedy84]

Im thinking maybe we won't get an announcement on contracts until Brownlow night, after Nas wins the medal.

Yep he'd be mad to sign anything prior to the All l-Australian, and possibly the Brownlow....AA and top 5 in the Brownlow could pocket him an extra $100k.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

Im thinking maybe we won't get an announcement on contracts until Brownlow night, after Nas wins the medal.

Yep he'd be mad to sign anything prior to the All l-Australian, and possibly the Brownlow....AA and top 5 in the Brownlow could pocket him an extra $100k.

Surely we’re at the point where all 3 clubs are offering all that they possible can. They would be factoring in that he’ll be All Australian and also that he’s likely to poll well in the Brownlow.

He’s young and an absolute jet. Not sure there’s much more that BW can do to boost his value.

 

[hayes]

Easy to forget there was a game played on the weekend. With Nas locked in I hope we can start experimenting with some other names in the middle this week. Hopefully they’re not just words from Ross and guys like Wilson and Phillipou can start spending full games in there because we need a couple more to rise with Nas.

 

[Mat Mann]

for non ista peeps