List Mgmt. 2025 List Management discussion - part 2

[Ricmel]

but don't know I have seen the love for a Saints player since Barks.
That's putting him ahead of Harves,Plugger, Nicky, Burkey, Reiwoldt, or even Lenny.

Yeah, I don't put him at Barks level - Barks to me stands alone at the top of the podium at St Kilda. Wouldn't be a St Kilda today if not for Barks.

Other than that, agree he is right up there. It feels like the early Lockett days where even though we were shite as a footy team, we could always fall back on watching Plugger.

 

[sauce_head]

does this imply that there is not much point watching footage of any top rated draft prospects for the next few years?

Ross said that we would go to the draft and go aggressively at bringing players in, so continue to watch if that floats your boat.

 

[snails13]

Ross did no such thing. Ross played the PR game, like he did re Finn Callaghan.

Choosing his words very carefully and saying about how HE hadn’t even spoken to him, as if that meant WE hadn’t even spoken to him.

Which is exactly what he said re Callaghan, after he re-signed.

Only for Finn to say in an interview that our offer to him was so huge that he had to speak to his family about it, and that the size of it was a major part of the reason he knocked it back.

Not wanting to carry the burden of the expectation and pressure and attention that the biggest contract in AFL history would bring.

As I alluded to the other day, Ross is an old wily Fox, who knows extremely well how to play the PR game.

The numbers Watson put forward are probably not accurate, but I’m very confident we had or are having a big crack.

I mean why the hell wouldn’t we!?

We’ve had a go at Callaghan, Rowell, etc, why wouldn’t we have thrown our hat into that ring?

Anyway, I’m not going to get sucked into an endless argument with you, so I’ll leave it there.

What did Ross mean by Tim got that wrong in regards to his Reid to Saints rumours?

 

[Ads734]

As if Naz wasn’t nominated for GOTY for his centre clearance goal

 

[gringo2011]

Very interesting you say that, as the guy that gave us the heads-up in January about our massive offer/interest in TDK, and also told us months back that we were having a big go at Reid- The_Gun- has been messaging me privately since he copped a bit of grief on here the other day (saying he’s happy for me to share his info, but doesn’t want to deal with any drama on here himself), and he messaged me this on Saturday night (I hadn’t logged in here since Friday night, so only saw this tonight).

View attachment 2399624

As much as it would be a nice sugar-hit and short-term boost to get TDK, I really really think there are other areas we need to prioritise other than ruck.

As for what he said about Reid, I’m guessing that was probably dependent on whether Nas stayed or not, but he didn’t say and possibly wasn’t told.

To me it's the 5th to 7th year on what would still be a crippling contract that is the biggest down side. Even at $1.2 million it's a huge chunk, especially if he can't make performance meet potential. Probably costs you as much as paying Flanders and Ryan per year. It really cripples your ability to bring in missing pieces if we are close to a flag and likely shakes out some of our own players.


It feels liken attempt to create a bit of hype and momentum and in the meantime Nas has done it in-house. The clubs that will benefit most in the next few seasons are those that get creative with recruitment, not chequebook list managers.

More Max Hall, less top dollar project players.

 

[Sully111]

Jordan Lewis having a sook on the couch about the 20% cap space taken up by Nas and TDK! Lol

Lewis is a flog.
I think the consensus in the media seems that while 2 mil a season is a lot of coin, we just had to do what was needed to keep Nas.
It's what many of us here were saying all along.
Nas and his manager clearly wanted to see him get paid. I believe his preference was to stay all along. They just worked this in a way that they would get the club to pay up, particularly after his form caught fire.
As Ross said last night, it would have had huge ramifications if we'd lost him.

Now we've got 2 years to get our shit together on field. I see no reason why that can't be done. I'd be very hopeful if that's the case, that Nas signs on again when the time comes.

 

[_Maximus_12]

As if Naz wasn’t nominated for GOTY for his centre clearance goal

Thought Lual was bloody stiff to be honest.

 

[austinnn]

Yep, I was another expert who wasn't that impressed with Nas, even until fairly recently. Fair to say he's impressed me a lot more this year! Very happy to have him at St Kilda for at least 2 more years, the bloke is an out and out gun, and will improve!

 

[gringo2011]

I mean, while we’re doing this….
View attachment 2399689

I was the opposite. Thought he'd leave the moment his contract was up. I reckon Chris Toce was one of best things that happened to us in the last 20 years. He kick started our proper list rebuild and made strong calls against the flow. RIP great man.

 

[gringo2011]

Yep, I was another expert who wasn't that impressed with Nas, even until fairly recently. Fair to say he's impressed me a lot more this year! Very happy to have him at St Kilda for at least 2 more years, the bloke is an out and out gun, and will improve!

I jumped on early trying to pretend that I hadn't sooked about not taking a local kid.

 

[_Maximus_12]

You all obviously heard Ross say they need to shift the dial to retain Nas.

Chips in this October is what I’ve been told.

Exciting.

Yep. Very exciting.

Big kudos to all of the fans that have stuck fat the last 15 years. It hasn’t been easy, and there’s still going to be some not so great times ahead, but the wheel has turned and we are now a serious football club who’s actions match their ambition.

 

[dudeintheswamp]

After a long wait, this is the moment Nasiah decided to stay

Cal Twomey reveals the two key meetings that secured Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera's new contract at St Kilda

www.afl.com.au

 

[gringo2011]

To me he is representative of everything we want the sport to be. Fast, skilled, brave and eye catchingly graceful.

Nasaiah is a sparkling throwback to a time when the game was much more exuberant, in amongst the modern quagmire of defensive, zoning, flooding systems.

Nas is very watchable. His moments in the game are thrilling and when he touches the ball 30 times a game the thrills just keep coming.

His appeal is organic for all ages, you don’t have to be an expert to enjoy watching him play.

Lots of footy loving families who have kids that want to support Nas because he plays the beautiful game, beautifully.

He's my Richmond mate's favourite player. Saw him last year and started saying that this guy will win a Brownlow once he gets up around 25 disposals a game. Had to point out that he already was.

He reckons he's a hybrid of all the best indigenous players of the past. Moves like McLeod, jumps like Winmar, steps around players like Buddy, bombs goals from outside 50 like uncle Gavin.....

 

[dudeintheswamp]

Yeah I think part of what also endears him to fans from other clubs is the complete lack of any flog factor. He certainly ain't no Harley Reid!

 

[Ads734]

One lesson I hope we all take from this saga is not to judge a book by its cover or more appropriately not judge a young footballer by how they seem a) at first glance or b) from the outside.

Naz was described by many as shy , introverted but his football is anything but that. I remember Toice talking about his quiet confidence and determination.

Not everyone needs to be loud like Pou or Tauru.

Just because Wilson or Lance are quiter doesn’t mean they arnt competitive or determined.

Naz is also the perfect of example of Ross developing another superstar.

 

[Train12]

Morning big footy family,

My thoughts are, I’ve never been more confident in retaining NAS for the long term.

We have 2 years to be playing finals - it would be mighty hard for him to leave after all the hard work to watch your mates play in finals and potentially win a .

He will probably be vice captain in the next few years.

He is the superstar of this club. It is his! Would he be that in Adelaide?

6 years living in Melbourne by then.

For Corey Enright to be in the room with Ross as he told of his news, obviously thinks very highly of Enright? We need to keep Enright.

Message is, the ball is in our court.

Onwards and upwards

IF king can get a run at it - NAS to king

 

[_Maximus_12]

I was the opposite. Thought he'd leave the moment his contract was up. I reckon Chris Toce was one of best things that happened to us in the last 20 years. He kick started our proper list rebuild and made strong calls against the flow. RIP great man.

That draft might be the greatest draft in the history of our club… I hope it is anyway.

 

[dudeintheswamp]

Haha was just thinking about TDK, imagine the relief he would have felt yesterday upon hearing the news

 

[Saintpav]

Saints players without contracts past this year remaining unsigned: (Please correct me if any of this is wrong)

• Angus McLennan
• Arie Schoenmaker
• Dougal Howard
• Harry Boyd
• Isaac Keeler
• Jack Carroll (UFA)
• Jimmy Webster (UFA)
• Liam O'Connell
• Liam Stocker (UFA)
• Marcus Windhager
• Max Heath
• Ryan Byrnes
• Zaine Cordy (UFA)
• Zak Jones

Here are some other fringe players and when their contracts are up:

• Dan Butler 2026
• Eamonn Armstrong 2026
• Hunter Clark 2027
• Lance Collard 2027
• Paddy Dow 2026

Assuming that we draft a minimum of 3 new players, look to trade in TDK and Aleer, that's already 5 spaces needed, but could be -and will probably be - many more.

Here's my preference:

1. Webster (retire): I suppose it's possible that he might go round again, but maybe it's time to move on the next phase of life and enjoy a peaceful retirement with the satisfaction of a successful career (on a personal level)
2. Boyd (delist): It's telling with all the issues in ruck we've had over the rounds, Harry wasn't picked after his first game. Thanks anyway.
3. Cordy (delist): It's potentially dangerous to get rid of another key backman, especially a calm senior player, but his standard is a little under what we should be aiming for as a club. I loved what he was part of in Ross's first season back but I'm hoping we won't need him going forward.
4. Jones (delist): I've loved his efforts and maintain he's helped get us over the line a few times, but there comes a time. Great Saints man, all heart but if spots are tight he's in danger.
5. McLennan (delist): Countless players over the history stay on the fringes and never really get a chance: Leo Connolly, Oscar Adams, Olli Hotton recent examples. Angus got a handful of games and may still make it, but we don't have enough space to justify keeping him sad to say.
6. Dow (delist): Unlikely, due to not getting a run at it, but it hasn't worked out and out of he and Carroll, I think Carroll has the potential to be more useful. I wouldn't be too upset if he's given another year though.
7. Steele (trade): I think he has the potential to reinvent himself in the forward line and the last few weeks he's shown that he is still highly valued by the boys and the coaches, so I doubt this happens, but the game has moved past him IMO.
8. Butler (trade/delist): in the leadership group and at his best devastating player, but similarly to Membrey last year, his spot needs to be given to develop a younger player and with Dan's increasing injury record, it's time to say thanks for your service. May end up getting him to a club in need of a pressure crummer to complete their list.
9. Marshall (trade): Another very popular player and it turns out a talismanic leader. If we are to bring in TDK, with Dodson Heath and Keeler all needing to develop, this trade makes sense at his external value and age. First round picks only.
10. **** UPON MEDICAL ADVICE Henry (trade/delist): Time to be real here; if that knee issue is as bad as Crouchy's last year, then it's a shame but he'll never be the player we need him to be. HOWEVER, if he fully recovers and gets his 2024 form back again, then lock him in, he'll be great.

Other possibilities:
Schoenmaker (trade/delist): Still a hope this guy develops into something big, but could just as easily not. The smart play is surely to hold onto him until Tassie enters the AFL and then see if they want to trade one of their draft picks for him, unless he makes himself undroppable.
O'Connell (trade/delist): A tough backman to replace Webster would be a lock you'd think, but he hasn't really had that many games in what must be said has been an inconsistent defence. What do the coaches think about him?
Collard (trade): I doubt we let him go this early in his career, but he'd want to get cracking this pre-season and make the jump in output next year. If we're being ruthless and we get a great offer from the WA clubs, it's possible we might cash in our chips but I hope not.
Byrnes (trade): Being the whipping boy is a bit unfair, people see what they want, and I see a lot of hard work, leadership, determination and enthusiasm and very decent linking play. He's not popular, but you need types like Byrnes in the best sides. Will SOS see it this way? Let's see. Someone will want him, that's for sure.
Heath (trade/delist): "Moose" has offered us a glimpse during his 2-game stint that there's something to work with. Will it be enough to justify holding onto him? We're about to find out. I hope so, personally.
Keeler (trade/delist): ditto but probably has a bit more to work with and the relationship with Nas helps. I like this player though, want to keep him.
Macrae (retire): I'm hoping Jackson can go around again and give us the service that he gave us this year, but he's looking very tired towards the end of this season.
Windhager (trade): I utterly hate this idea, but if he wants to drive a hard bargin for an unrealistic deal, the unthinkable may happen. I would be very dark on SOS if he let Windy leave, even after Nas re-signing.

The other players are either very unlikely to be delisted or ask for a trade or retire at this stage.

That’s a long list

 

[marcus1232]

Theres a humility to Nas that is really endearing.

My best analogy I can think of he is that boxer at a press conference and his opponent is trash talking saying all sorts of demeaning things and he stays silent.
Then the night of the fight comes out and knocks the cocky brash boxer the fudge out.

 

[marcus1232]

Haha was just thinking about TDK, imagine the relief he would have felt yesterday upon hearing the news

I think he was the second happiest person behind Ben Williams

 

[SaintlyHymns]

Ben Williams on SEN Breakfast at the moment. He's pretty impressive, but yet to apologise to the Saints forum for the months of torment.

He said they hardly discussed it until Nas was ready. Amazing resolve from the bloke that he can play so well under that sort of pressure. Huge for us.

 

[_Maximus_12]

Williams saying he told NAS to hold, and his form showed that it was the right move. he didn’t go to the club and ask us to up our offer after the Melbourne game, we got on the front foot and came back with an increased offer off our own back.

SOS and Gubby busy low balling him god damn.

 

[Saintpav]

Nice. Very nice.

More of this hard arsed talk please Saints.

 

[jwikked]

SOS and Gubby busy low balling him god damn.

Don’t agree with that. Nobody saw him as a $2mil a year player until about 5 weeks ago