Game Day RD 24 vs. Melbourne. Fri 22/08 @ 7:10pm (MCG)

[No SPIN]

• McStay is hardly shooting the lights out so worth a try (Cox).
• Great to have our best line back together i probably 2 MThs now.
• Not worried where Pies finish, on the day its game on, I reckon the opposition will know who they are up against and would be more worried than us!

Yes - just when they thought we were gone, the Adel performance has forced a rethink amongst finalists.

 

[No SPIN]

I agree Manic with you for once about Cox
I think that teams have a key strategy against us with flooding, and we have not as yet got an effective answer. I think the presence of Cox would hinder us in finding the necessary answer, which has to be to change both the way and the speed in which we move the ball. Cox's presence would actually be detrimental in making these adjustments, and it is clear that unless we have the ability to switch quickly to a different mode when flooding begins, we aren't going to win a Premiership.
So yeah, I'm no longer calling for Cox to come in.
Edit: Sorry Leon. It really hurt me to write the above paragraph.

Not sure changes to game plan are restricted with Cox’s selection - he’ll replace McStay.
DC then has more flexibility to play either end.
Cox actually increases flexibility in important ways.

 

[cfc19902010]

Then lets hope we win the QF

Let’s hope we make QF

 

[Dead Eye Didak]

Hope you are right but can Port win without Wines and JHF?

Going to be tough, but the occasion hopefully will give those playing that extra 20% and they play out of their skins one last time for Hinkley...

 

[lenny20]

Looking at Fly's press conference, I think big Mase comes in for Dan McStay.

It's not a bad call, to be honest. McStay isn't a bad footballer, he's just horribly out of form. I remember thinking even during the Carlton game, where he kicked one of the goals of the year from 60, he made a huge error in having the shot. He had Nick streaming past him, unopposed, into an open 50, absolute guaranteed goal... and he burned him. Took the shot himself. Kicked it, and good on him... but boy howdy was it the wrong option.

McStay's game sense is all over the place right now, he's struggling to get into good positions, he's struggling to make good decisions, and perhaps most importantly, when it comes to trying to combat the flood and bring the ball to ground against three defenders... he's not that guy. Neither are Membrey or Mihocek. They're all in that mobile 192-196cm range, not contested marking beasts or absolute giants.

Cox might not be most of those things either... but he is an absolute giant. He's not gonna be clunking too many pack grabs with the sort of floods we've been experiencing, but he does have a handy knack of getting one hand to the ball and bringing it to ground.

So if we're doomed to play against a defensive flood, which it would appear we are, I think Cox might actually be the superior option up forward here. Even in the likely event of a zero goal game, he can have impact simply by stopping the clean intercept mark and giving the smalls a chance to get to work – something we've really been struggling with.

The fact he's a far superior second ruck to McStay is a nice bonus, too.

While I'd much prefer that we rediscover the lightning ball movement that made all our forward targets a threat, in the absence of that game style – which the opposition have worked incredible hard to deny us, and may not be coming back this season – planting big Mase inside 50 and kicking it on his head is at least a small upgrade over doing the same with our motley crew of undersized KPPs.

 

[parano1a]

I think Cox might actually be the superior option up forward here.

I'd start Cox in the ruck to rough up Gawn like he did in the first quarter of the 2023 QF. Cameron starts as a forward marking target. If it's not working they can easily be switched.

 

[Kes1984]

In Hosk
Needs a farewell game at least if he’s not gonna be in the squad for finals.
Boys will lift for him.

 

[IlovethePies]

I don't see Cox in a flooded forward line as any advantage whatsoever. I'm scared it would only encourage bombing in the vain hope that Cox can clunk one in a super dense forward line. I think we need to be thinking about how to minimise the flood rather than simply assuming we just have to live with it from now on.

 

[PiCkLeJuiCe]

I don't see Cox in a flooded forward line as any advantage whatsoever. I'm scared it would only encourage bombing in the vain hope that Cox can clunk one in a super dense forward line. I think we need to be thinking about how to minimise the flood rather than simply assuming we just have to live with it from now on.

Hawks are going with 3 - 4 tall forwards but still find a way to leave enough space for forwards to lead and take uncontested marks. So it works. I wouldn't say the Hawks players are better at kicking than ours. Maybe a bit better, but mainly coming out of the back half of the ground.

 

[No SPIN]

I don't see Cox in a flooded forward line as any advantage whatsoever. I'm scared it would only encourage bombing in the vain hope that Cox can clunk one in a super dense forward line. I think we need to be thinking about how to minimise the flood rather than simply assuming we just have to live with it from now on.

A method to minimize the impact of flooding will apply with or without Cox.
Fly will not abandon this imperative just by selecting Cox.

 

[jmac70]

In Hosk
Needs a farewell game at least if he’s not gonna be in the squad for finals.
Boys will lift for him.

I doubt he will get selected again unless through injury.

 

[Scodog10]

I don't see Cox in a flooded forward line as any advantage whatsoever. I'm scared it would only encourage bombing in the vain hope that Cox can clunk one in a super dense forward line. I think we need to be thinking about how to minimise the flood rather than simply assuming we just have to live with it from now on.

I think it’s happening… Two schools of thought the first is we need to move away from the Demons old method of entering the F50 and score in transition more. The second is we lean into it on the basis of what looks the opposition are giving us.

Without Bobby I think we’re going to lean into the opposition playing a rope a dope style and get comfortable in a forward half game. We had I think 38 stoppages I50 against Adelaide for 3 points. The logic being that if Cox is there we improve on that.

I’m not a fan because I think Cox has fallen off the cliff at senior level ala WHE and Mitchell, but I’m preparing myself for it at least against Melbourne and potentially a few other finals opponents.

 

[Vankri]

I don't see Cox in a flooded forward line as any advantage whatsoever. I'm scared it would only encourage bombing in the vain hope that Cox can clunk one in a super dense forward line. I think we need to be thinking about how to minimise the flood rather than simply assuming we just have to live with it from now on.

The problem is not what to do with the clogged forward line in this instance it’s to avoid having it clogged in the first place. Unless you want to do a complete 180 on our gameplan and go back to slingshotting with pushing our numbers back then getting those quick marks or letting the ball spillover to advantage is key to both us progressing through the field quicker (because we don’t run the ball out we kick to the boundary) and making use of space forward. Cox is not the only solution as mids have a role to play there but when you have Checkers and McStay in poor form, when we use Cameron more as defensive marking so he doesn’t push forward as much, then what else are we to do? There’s one round of h&a to go so I just don’t think we can radically change things by dropping our talks for smalls, we just need to find a way to get the sort of output we used to from MMM early in the season.

 

[IlovethePies]

The problem is not what to do with the clogged forward line in this instance it’s to avoid having it clogged in the first place.

Exactly the point I am making.

Unless you want to do a complete 180 on our gameplan and go back to slingshotting with pushing our numbers back then getting those quick marks or letting the ball spillover to advantage is key to both us progressing through the field quicker (because we don’t run the ball out we kick to the boundary) and making use of space forward..... we just need to find a way to get the sort of output we used to from MMM early in the season.

....and this is where the change can come from. We have to change where we kick the ball - don't always go wide.
We have the skills to do this, first qur against Adelaide was a case in point. As far as I can understand, we don't have to radically change our game plan to be able to simply move the ball unpredictably and play on more systematically.[/b][/b]

 

[Carringbush2010]

Hawks are going with 3 - 4 tall forwards but still find a way to leave enough space for forwards to lead and take uncontested marks

For one or two reasons or a combination of both (more likely).

1 They're out two way running their oppositions to stoppage / contests which allows them transition into space. Like they did qt 1 against Ade in Ade.

2 Their opposition is not disciplined enough in their ground (team) defence and aren't outrunning their opposition to get to stoppage / contest. Like we've been before the Ade game for the past two months.

 

[domus]

Going to be tough, but the occasion hopefully will give those playing that extra 20% and they play out of their skins one last time for Hinkley...

I'm more worried about the Port line up than our own this week!

 

[domus]

I'd start Cox in the ruck to rough up Gawn like he did in the first quarter of the 2023 QF. Cameron starts as a forward marking target. If it's not working they can easily be switched.

That's always the other concern with Gawn. He tends to dominate DC because Darcy cannot jump. In a wrestle, Gawn will always get first hands on the ball and set up his midfielders. We already struggle with our centre clearances and if Gawn dominates it could get ugly. Coxy as a back up or the man to take on Gawn would be my preference.

 

[domus]

I think it’s happening… Two schools of thought the first is we need to move away from the Demons old method of entering the F50 and score in transition more. The second is we lean into it on the basis of what looks the opposition are giving us.

Without Bobby I think we’re going to lean into the opposition playing a rope a dope style and get comfortable in a forward half game. We had I think 38 stoppages I50 against Adelaide for 3 points. The logic being that if Cox is there we improve on that.

I’m not a fan because I think Cox has fallen off the cliff at senior level ala WHE and Mitchell, but I’m preparing myself for it at least against Melbourne and potentially a few other finals opponents.

Why couldn't we say the same about Mcstay? Coxy never gets the opportunity to have 5 or 6 shockers in a row. He is normally axed after one. I watched Cox on Swoop Luke's training footage today and was taken aback yet again by the pace Coxy shows for a 7 foot tall footballer. He is far more athletic than he is given credit for and far from the lumbering dinosaur some paint him as.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Just on the flooding of our f50 as a tactic.

Yes, that's all well and good, however it is highly taxing and is probably not sustainable over 4 qts in a high pressure finals game. Especially against high pressure teams like Collingwood or Adelaide.

It's part of the reason why we had such a high number of i50s, 'you flood our forward line then we'll pressure to keep it in, and if you get possesion it'll be pressured forcing disposal errors and it'll keep coming back in'.

Yeah ok, you could argue that creates an impasse in that limits scoring ability, but in impasse in our f50, not in our d50.

It's unlikely we get that many i50s and score so poorly from it again. Ade got lucky to win it, even given they threw the kitchen sink to their pressure game to try and match us.

 

[Jelly Bean]

Hawks are going with 3 - 4 tall forwards but still find a way to leave enough space for forwards to lead and take uncontested marks. So it works. I wouldn't say the Hawks players are better at kicking than ours. Maybe a bit better, but mainly coming out of the back half of the ground.

They don't play a game style of slow ball movement foward like we do now, so there is space in their forwardline if their key forwards create space from eachother.

We don't play that way anymore, which is perplexing. We went back to it in the first quarter last week and dominated, but then went back to the slow movement and got swallowed up.

 

[Kirby]

That's always the other concern with Gawn. He tends to dominate DC because Darcy cannot jump. In a wrestle, Gawn will always get first hands on the ball and set up his midfielders. We already struggle with our centre clearances and if Gawn dominates it could get ugly. Coxy as a back up or the man to take on Gawn would be my preference.

Cox can’t jump against Gawn either under the new rules. Gawn beats every single player in the ruck these days.

 

[Doc1763]

I doubt he will get selected again unless through injury.

he'll win the Norm, I can feel it in my water

 

[Pistol Night]

he'll win the Norm, I can feel it in my water

Ill have $100 on it. When he wins we can holiday in the Greek Islands for a year together.

 

[domus]

Cox can’t jump against Gawn either under the new rules. Gawn beats every single player in the ruck these days.

Did they change the jumping rule after 2023? I recall Coxy jumping into Gawn at the opening bounce of the qualifying final and kneeing him in the ribs. He won the tap and Gawn lay there on the ground in pain for a few seconds. Coxy cleaned him up in another game (I think it was that year on the King's/Queen's birthday) before going on to kick one of the best goals of his career.

 

[Scodog10]

Just on the flooding of our f50 as a tactic.

Yes, that's all well and good, however it is highly taxing and is probably not sustainable over 4 qts in a high pressure finals game. Especially against high pressure teams like Collingwood or Adelaide.

It's part of the reason why we had such a high number of i50s, 'you flood our forward line then we'll pressure to keep it in, and if you get possesion it'll be pressured forcing disposal errors and it'll keep coming back in'.

Yeah ok, you could argue that creates an impasse in that limits scoring ability, but in impasse in our f50, not in our d50.

It's unlikely we get that many i50s and score so poorly from it again. Ade got lucky to win it, even given they threw the kitchen sink to their pressure game to try and match us.

A couple of things. It’s now happened twice in 6 weeks with Freo getting us the same way and Adelaide are a better pressure side than us in 2025.