Game Day RD 24 vs. Melbourne. Fri 22/08 @ 7:10pm (MCG)

[Kirby]

Did they change the jumping rule after 2023? I recall Coxy jumping into Gawn at the opening bounce of the qualifying final and kneeing him in the ribs. He won the tap and Gawn lay there on the ground in pain for a few seconds. Coxy cleaned him up in another game (I think it was that year on the King's/Queen's birthday) before going on to kick one of the best goals of his career.

I can’t remember if it was this year or last year it started, but at centre bounce the players can now cross the line and use their arms to impede the other ruckman. It’s basically taken the jump out of the contest.

 

[Exambolor]

Going to be tough, but the occasion hopefully will give those playing that extra 20% and they play out of their skins one last time for Hinkley...

They almost beat Freo with no defenders... it's very possible

 

[domus]

They almost beat Freo with no defenders... it's very possible

I just checked their injury list.....bloody hell! They'll be lucky to stay within ten goals.

 

[Carringbush2010]

The problem is not what to do with the clogged forward line in this instance it’s to avoid having it clogged in the first place. Unless you want to do a complete 180 on our gameplan and go back to slingshotting with pushing our numbers back then getting those quick marks or letting the ball spillover to advantage is key to both us progressing through the field quicker (because we don’t run the ball out we kick to the boundary) and making use of space forward. Cox is not the only solution as mids have a role to play there but when you have Checkers and McStay in poor form, when we use Cameron more as defensive marking so he doesn’t push forward as much, then what else are we to do? There’s one round of h&a to go so I just don’t think we can radically change things by dropping our talks for smalls, we just need to find a way to get the sort of output we used to from MMM early in the season.

Exactly the point I am making.
....and this is where the change can come from. We have to change where we kick the ball - don't always go wide.
We have the skills to do this, first qur against Adelaide was a case in point. As far as I can understand, we don't have to radically change our game plan to be able to simply move the ball unpredictably and play on more systematically.[/b][/b]

The reason we kick to the boundary from d50 is in part due to how the opp sets up behind the ball. IF we get opportunity to go corridor with transition we'll do that, but literally every team sets up ground defence to deny this, it's why most teams usually go boundary or chip/ mark through (which is rare).

It takes risky kicks to go up the corridor from kick in and pull it off, it's not percentage football, you really have to catch the opposing team off guard in their ground defence to achieve it.

Our ideal game to get around that is to win contest in those boundary / half back / wing set ups, and then handball from inside to outside to transition, ideally through corridor, to an unflooded f50 - ball speed. That usually takes outnumber to achieve it, we've been doing this and honing this since Fly has got here.

Really our ideal game, like anyone else's is in short, pardon the cliche 'swarm and spread'.

Mick employed it, not to mention with very high percentage of boundary game and came up with the highest points f/a percentage of all time (or 2nd, can't remember, point being.........)
Bucks employed it, and almost won a flag off it.
Now Fly employs, and won a flag off it, and might win another.

 

[Vankri]

Exactly the point I am making.
....and this is where the change can come from. We have to change where we kick the ball - don't always go wide.
We have the skills to do this, first qur against Adelaide was a case in point. As far as I can understand, we don't have to radically change our game plan to be able to simply move the ball unpredictably and play on more systematically.[/b][/b]

I think we agree somewhat. Admittedly I haven’t watched a replay of the game last weekend but what struck me is that we went fast with the overlap run post kick on the boundary in Q1 (vs corridor) only to be stopped by the rain.

I guess where I differ is that I would see us switching from a heavily boundary based game to a corridor one as a pretty big change. Would impact speed if ball, run, positioning, leading patterns.

At the end of the day footy tactics aren’t 4D chess and it’s a messy game in comparison to major world sports so options are limited. So the things that make a gameplan would be: how fast you go, push numbers back on forward, where you use your +1 when you do, prefer handball and run or kick, go wide or corridor, contest or outside and clean or quick delivery i50, how far into the ground you decide to set up a zone va man on man. That’s what I like to watch for at least. Collingwood ‘10 is boundary, fast, kick first and numbers forward. Collingwood ‘23 fast, corridor, by hand and numbers back. ‘25 has been boundary and numbers forward.

I have been holding hope that we will flick a switch and bring some of our 23 game into the finals series because Fly has been big on ‘seasons of footy’ with style following the weather, but going to the Cox question, I imagine we’d be more willing to pull that trigger if we knew we wouldn’t completely capitulate the aerial battle as that’s what it’s felt like at times in the past weeks.

 

[Carringbush2010]

A couple of things. It’s now happened twice in 6 weeks with Freo getting us the same way and Adelaide are a better pressure side than us in 2025.

Adelaide now have been a better pressure team (over the back half of the season), not sure they were over the course of the game on Sat night though, the pressure meter was pretty even IMO.

We have been known as THE pressure team for the last 2-3 years, looks like it's coming back, and that's the cornerstone of our ideal game.

 

[Vankri]

The reason we kick to the boundary from d50 is in part due to how the opp sets up behind the ball. IF we get opportunity to go corridor with transition we'll do that, but literally every team sets up ground defence to deny this, it's why most teams usually go boundary or chip/ mark through (which is rare).

It takes risky kicks to go up the corridor from kick in and pull it off, it's not percentage football, you really have to catch the opposing team off guard in their ground defence to achieve it.

Our ideal game to get around that is to win contest in those boundary / half back / wing set ups, and then handball from inside to outside to transition, ideally through corridor, to an unflooded f50 - ball speed. That usually takes outnumber to achieve it, we've been doing this and honing this since Fly has got here.

Really our ideal game, like anyone else's is in short, pardon the cliche 'swarm and spread'.

Mick employed it, not to mention with very high percentage of boundary game and came up with the highest points f/a percentage of all time (or 2nd, can't remember, point being.........)
Bucks employed it, and almost won a flag off it.
Now Fly employs, and won a flag off it, and might win another.

There’s an element of that because even at the end of 23 and definitely early 24 opposition teams woke up and realised defending the corridor would stifle our plans. Other teams have ways around it (Brisbane short kicks, gws extreme slingshot)but we also clearly moved away from it.

 

[Carringbush2010]

There’s an element of that because even at the end of 23 and definitely early 24 opposition teams woke up and realised defending the corridor would stifle our plans.

Opposition have always known our (Fly's) game style, one thing to know it, much more difficult to defeat it.

I'll highlight our game against bris at the Gabba as an example, they weren't (or rarely) were able to kick / mark through it.

That was due to our highly disciplined ground (team) defence.

Other teams have ways around it (Brisbane short kicks, gws extreme slingshot)but we also clearly moved away from it.

Agreed, again, see the 1st half of the season, we literally denied opposition transition and forced contest / stoppage, then we'd outnumber at contest to obtain possession / transition.

The Ade game displayed we're on our way back to this game.

Expect more of the same against the deecline.

 

[Scodog10]

Adelaide now have been a better pressure team (over the back half of the season), not sure they were over the course of the game on Sat night though, the pressure meter was pretty even IMO.

We have been known as THE pressure team for the last 2-3 years, looks like it's coming back, and that's the cornerstone of our ideal game.

CD had both Adelaide and Hawthorn ranked ahead of us over the full season as recently as three weeks ago when those two played. We aren’t the number 1 most likely because we’ve brought the heat about 3 times in the back half of the season (including Saturday). I do hope it returns on a consistent basis and I’m expecting it to be dialed up on Friday night, but without it we’ll be in trouble as we saw v Hawthorn.

 

[IlovethePies]

I think we agree somewhat. Admittedly I haven’t watched a replay of the game last weekend but what struck me is that we went fast with the overlap run post kick on the boundary in Q1 (vs corridor) only to be stopped by the rain.

I guess where I differ is that I would see us switching from a heavily boundary based game to a corridor one as a pretty big change. Would impact speed if ball, run, positioning, leading patterns.

At the end of the day footy tactics aren’t 4D chess and it’s a messy game in comparison to major world sports so options are limited. So the things that make a gameplan would be: how fast you go, push numbers back on forward, where you use your +1 when you do, prefer handball and run or kick, go wide or corridor, contest or outside and clean or quick delivery i50, how far into the ground you decide to set up a zone va man on man. That’s what I like to watch for at least. Collingwood ‘10 is boundary, fast, kick first and numbers forward. Collingwood ‘23 fast, corridor, by hand and numbers back. ‘25 has been boundary and numbers forward.

I have been holding hope that we will flick a switch and bring some of our 23 game into the finals series because Fly has been big on ‘seasons of footy’ with style following the weather, but going to the Cox question, I imagine we’d be more willing to pull that trigger if we knew we wouldn’t completely capitulate the aerial battle as that’s what it’s felt like at times in the past weeks.

Good analysis Vankri. Agree that we somewhat agree.

 

[IlovethePies]

CD had both Adelaide and Hawthorn ranked ahead of us over the full season as recently as three weeks ago when those two played. We aren’t the number 1 most likely because we’ve brought the heat about 3 times in the back half of the season (including Saturday). I do hope it returns on a consistent basis and I’m expecting it to be dialed up on Friday night, but without it we’ll be in trouble as we saw v Hawthorn.

Who is CD?

 

[Scodog10]

Who is CD?

Champion data.

 

[WakeUpPies]

Big Cox goes well against all the rucks Darcy struggles with so it wouldn’t be the worst thing to let him have one last chance to retire a 2x Premiership player. McStay in current form is essentially Cox with poor ruck skills.

 

[IlovethePies]

Why couldn't we say the same about Mcstay? Coxy never gets the opportunity to have 5 or 6 shockers in a row. He is normally axed after one. I watched Cox on Swoop Luke's training footage today and was taken aback yet again by the pace Coxy shows for a 7 foot tall footballer. He is far more athletic than he is given credit for and far from the lumbering dinosaur some paint him as.

That is what I love about the Cox cult...once you are in, even if you think you are out, you never really are.
I think opposition flooding, which has now become a core opposition principle, makes the inclusion of Mason more dubious.
But when I hear arguments as to why he could still provide some upside, I rapidly get convinced.
The Cox Cult has an overwhelming power. It won't ever end until the Big Man retires.

 

[CPH12]

Roan is out up-and-down the ground runner
Bobby is needed in F50

I'd like to see Sidey shifted to F50. Without Bobby he is our most natural crumbing forward. Roan or Allan can then replace him on a wing. At this point I'd drop Long, think we can cover inside mid through JDG and crisp

 

[leon123]

That is what I love about the Cox cult...once you are in, even if you think you are out, you never really are.
I think opposition flooding, which has now become a core opposition principle, makes the inclusion of Mason more dubious.
But when I hear arguments as to why he could still provide some upside, I rapidly get convinced.
The Cox Cult has an overwhelming power. It won't ever end until the Big Man retires.

Cox

 

[IlovethePies]

Cox

That's the man.

 

[Jen2310]

I'd like to see Sidey shifted to F50. Without Bobby he is our most natural crumbing forward. Roan or Allan can then replace him on a wing. At this point I'd drop Long, think we can cover inside mid through JDG and crisp

Trained on the wing.
Crisp in the middle
Houston on the other

 

[manicpie]

That is what I love about the Cox cult...once you are in, even if you think you are out, you never really are.
I think opposition flooding, which has now become a core opposition principle, makes the inclusion of Mason more dubious.
But when I hear arguments as to why he could still provide some upside, I rapidly get convinced.
The Cox Cult has an overwhelming power. It won't ever end until the Big Man retires.

He's our very own Viagra man. When he just literally can't go on anymore, they fing a way get him up for another crack. Go well big Cox

 

[IlovethePies]

Trained on the wing.
Crisp in the middle
Houston on the other

Sidey I think should take quite a few clearances as an inside mid. No doubt will do so from the wing.
Houston going full on wing I think is a great idea. He has laser like kicking accuracy over long distance as well as short. He needs to be on the wing as a creator of offensive and aggressive ball movement. I think Houston as a winger is part of the counterstrategy to counter flooding with aggressive and non-predictable ball movement.
Sidey is a great kick as well, and can do likewise when on the other wing.
Long stays in. It's a Long way to beast mode if you wanna rock and roll in the Premiership.
Think this is the right vision.
JDG sometimes an inside mid but has the freedom to go forward.
Compared with 2023, we don't have Bobby (most likely), but we have Shoota instead.

 

[jmac70]

he'll win the Norm, I can feel it in my water

That would be remarkable.
Would love it.
Will is an awesome guy, very humble and kind.

 

[jmac70]

It’s a bit shocking to me that there is a chance we pick Cox. To me, he is finished.
I guess McStay deserves this given how bad he has played. I’d almost prefer neither Cox or McStay pkay.

 

[No SPIN]

They don't play a game style of slow ball movement foward like we do now, so there is space in their forwardline if their key forwards create space from eachother.

We don't play that way anymore, which is perplexing. We went back to it in the first quarter last week and dominated, but then went back to the slow movement and got swallowed up.

Played fast when we smashed them. Mitchell admitted before the last game they were concerned about our speed.
We can definitely flip the switch.

 

[No SPIN]

Cox can’t jump against Gawn either under the new rules. Gawn beats every single player in the ruck these days.

Cox clearly out leaps Gawn at CB. Wrestling at stoppage is where Cox has an issue with Gawn.

 

[jmac70]

Cox clearly out leaps Gawn at CB. Wrestling at stoppage is where Cox has an issue with Gawn.

When was the last time you saw Cox get a clean tap to advantage from a centre contest?