List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
​

 

[BilboJackins]

Going hard now isn’t just about Nas.

4 years of use it or lose it cap needs to be spent.

And it’s not an extra 5%. We’ve been spending (and struggling to spend) 95%, so we’ll be spending 10% more for the next 4 years, well in excess of $1m and probably closer to $2m after the salary cap increases.

 

[Joffaboy]

It's a massive concern for some that we are going all in with no caution for the future. This is all-in balls on the line stuff. It either rises us to glory or runs us into a brick wall down the track.

It's exciting AF but there are consequences for everything. It looks like a better version of the Hill, Howard, Rider, Butler era. Hopefully this time we have built a better foundation to spring off but we are also have chosen to go all guns blazing with no obvious way back.

This is more Hunter S Thompson going to Vegas on acid than sensible planning but at least it won't be another boring year in the mediocrity pool.

Is this all together accurate though? From the little we know, the thing that sticks out for the future is that no SC increases have been built into current contracts. According to RTB on Agenda Setters when NAZ signed, us and Essendon are the only two clubs to do this.
For us it means any increase will be excess to what we have in contracts currently. For other clubs it may mean stress if the SC doesn't go up the total expected.
Look, valid concerns when cash is splashed. Can it go t1ts up? Well history shows we have one flag in 150 years so chances are yes.
However we are all sick of 15 years of mediocrity. The strategy has been worked out in the environment of AFL corruption towards destroying the balance of the competition by favouring clubs with NGA's and FS for nothing picks.
We tried to fill out the list in 2019, got us to finals but was not satisfactory. We have drafted pretty well, used our mature aged rookies pretty well and seemingly managed contracts well enough that SoS could go to senior players managers and give them substantial bonuses because, as Ross put it, he had 'money left over in the cap'.
I am not over excited with the shopping list, Flanders seems the best, however as a whole I think they make the team better.
In the future we WILL have cap issues, however I am hoping it is because we have become a consistent top 8 team and there is pressure to keep star players.
With that comes the chance that good players want to come to the Saints as we are successful, something we have to buy at the moment.

 

[MrFoster]

Given the below diagram (centre bounce attendances in 2025) I'd assume our preferred setup would be something like:

TDK ~65%
Row/Dodson ~35%

NWM ~60%
Flanders/Cmack ~60%
Macrae ~50%
Garcia ~50%
Pou ~40%
Other ~40%

If our midfield is finals-level, I don't think Windy fits unless he's tagging. Should be on a wing imo

View attachment 2410029

Interesting take on Hunter Clark, not a true mid and still has poor endurance after 7-8 years on the list. Wonder if North Melbourne would be interested for a second round pick, as they were interested last year.

 

[ESPN8 The Ocho]

Is this all together accurate though? From the little we know, the thing that sticks out for the future is that no SC increases have been built into current contracts. According to RTB on Agenda Setters when NAZ signed, us and Essendon are the only two clubs to do this.
For us it means any increase will be excess to what we have in contracts currently. For other clubs it may mean stress if the SC doesn't go up the total expected.
Look, valid concerns when cash is splashed. Can it go t1ts up? Well history shows we have one flag in 150 years so chances are yes.
However we are all sick of 15 years of mediocrity. The strategy has been worked out in the environment of AFL corruption towards destroying the balance of the competition by favouring clubs with NGA's and FS for nothing picks.
We tried to fill out the list in 2019, got us to finals but was not satisfactory. We have drafted pretty well, used our mature aged rookies pretty well and seemingly managed contracts well enough that SoS could go to senior players managers and give them substantial bonuses because, as Ross put it, he had 'money left over in the cap'.
I am not over excited with the shopping list, Flanders seems the best, however as a whole I think they make the team better.
In the future we WILL have cap issues, however I am hoping it is because we have become a consistent top 8 team and there is pressure to keep star players.
With that comes the chance that good players want to come to the Saints as we are successful, something we have to buy at the moment.

Just one small point about the % underspend vs % overspend with the salary cap.
The overspend $’s is limited to the $ amount underspent.
It’s not as clear cut as some have suggested.

 

[geelong sajnt]

Could we trade winhager + Clark for future first from North, onsell it for mckenzie, trade Marshall for a late first from cats, onsell that for Flanders. Midfield improved out of sight, keep steele, keep pick 7

Add TDK and JSOS and we improve massively

 

[LH7]

A bit out there - don't hate on me - but with the loss of Jimmy, I'd like to see Garcia tried as a small defender. IMO he would be more valuable in that position for us than as another mid.
We're thin on other options and will have enough midfield depth.

 

[gringo2011]

Not really as he is never fit , the perfect depth player needs to be able to come in.

You imagine that this season was an absolute freak occurrence rather than an issue that will keep showing up.

 

[Off Stump 89]

Ah why does period have to be so far away

 

[StCicatriz]

if we could keep one out of marshall or steele which one would you keep?

 

[gringo2011]

Look at the bigger picture,

1. Whether Nas will stay or not in 2 years time, we as a club needs to improve and improve quickly, especially with Tassie looming in the background.
2. Building through the draft can only get you so far these days, just look at North Melbourne.
3. We have a war chest saved up and need to spend it eventuately either on our young players or FA/traded players.
4. Free agents for next year doesn't look that enticing.
5. It's difficult for a team like us to attract top talent, even though I criticise the 2019 recruitment drive that got us Howard, Ryder, Jones, Hill and Butler, we probably had to work our behinds off to get those players interested at the time and offer heaps more money of course.

So, we need to be bold this off season and we have the salary cap to make a play this off season. I for one is super excited to see the players we are linked with (My other team Arsenal football club also just signed 8 players this year in a best-off season ever, stars are aligning). As they say, if you don't improve every day, then you're going backwards. Because everyone else is improving. That's why we really need to improve and hopefully by a lot. Of course there are risks involved, but that's life. As long as we take calculated risks which I think we are, we'll just let time play out.

Go you mighty saints, it's not always easy supporting us, but when we have those moments (like the Melbourne win), it's truly magical!!!

You literally don't have to. You can keep organically growing and do the list build in a very slow deliberate low risk way. We are choosing to go hard next year and will need to gets some results for the fireworks. We have created a bit of hype and momentum by throwing cash around. It needs to translate to wins now.

I hope our training and medical staff get chucked out and started again. Keeping our players on the park is probably more important than recruiting at this stage.

 

[akaifu]

if we could keep one out of marshall or steele which one would you keep?

Marshall 100%

 

[Diehard Saint]

But I love how we've immediately transitioned from....

"family is what will take him home, not money or anything else"

into

"we must achieve immediate success or he'll leave".

Can absolutely be both. It’s not mutually exclusive.

Family was a huge drawcard for him which is why it took him so long to decide, but he was obviously also sold on our plan for the future - which more than likely swayed him to us. For now.

But, if after 2 years we’re going nowhere, he’ll feel nothing about leaving and going home to family.

 

[SinCitySainter]

You imagine that this season was an absolute freak occurrence rather than an issue that will keep showing up.

That is possibly true but he only played 10 games in 2024 and 2023, and 3 in 2022. It is a problematic record.

 

[akaifu]

A bit out there - don't hate on me - but with the loss of Jimmy, I'd like to see Garcia tried as a small defender. IMO he would be more valuable in that position for us than as another mid.
We're thin on other options and will have enough midfield depth.

Garcia's weapon is winning the ball in contest and tackling. Playing him in the back pocket immediately neutralises that strenght imo

We have plenty of other options; Hastie, O'Connell, Stocker, even Wilkie if we have enough talls to play key back. Travaglia also played on Greene at times on Sunday

 

[Diehard Saint]

You literally don't have to. You can keep organically growing and do the list build in a very slow deliberate low risk way. We are choosing to go hard next year and will need to gets some results for the fireworks. We have created a bit of hype and momentum by throwing cash around. It needs to translate to wins now.

I hope our training and medical staff get chucked out and started again. Keeping our players on the park is probably more important than recruiting at this stage.

We’ve signed a new doctor.
But as you say - injury has been our undoing the past two seasons, so hopefully due a little luck on that front next year.

 

[Broski]

Our great mate Tom Morris is reporting we don't really want to give Windy a four-year deal because they "like him" but don't "love him". I understand. Windy is a great person to have at the club, but not if he's asking for a big slice of the pie.

Additionally, Korn says the Flanders rumour doesn't tickle his pickle, but MacKenzie does.

Lastly, just saw that Ben Paton has been delisted after one season at the Swans.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Im not yucking your yum but "a-grader"...

Hes played 12 games this year... I dont think hes been injured for all the games hes missed.

In those 12 games he had one 30 touch game, didnt break 21 in any other game.

All this "superstar hawks" team stuff. They finished 8th and had 2 aa squad members (and most think Battle was very lucky to get in).

Unless C-Mac is currently injured (and he might be for all i know) the Mid/Depth in the 23 from their game on the weekend is as follows.

Newcombe, Worpel, Ward, Scrimshaw, Nash, McDonald.

To be clear, i dont mind C-Mac looks a lovely player who is developing nicely but "a-grade" is ****ing ridiculous. The media is so ****ing hot for the Hawks theyd try to convince us that every player on their list is worth a first.

If he was an A grader, why would they let him go?

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

I will bow to your greater judgement as I haven't watched Hawthorn all that often and when I have he looked pretty meh to me

Cmac gives me young Sam Mitchell vibes.

Calm, has time & uses it well.

With time I have little doubt he'll be a very very good player.

I don't want to help Hawforn in anyway, especially to jag a Butters/Trac but opportunities to add young players of Cmac's quality don't come along very often.

 

[SinCitySainter]

One thing that needs clarification is this constant rabbiting that we have money we need to spend or we lose it. That is not really correct is it. What is actually the truth is that in 2022 we paid 95% of the cap meaning that in any of the next 4 years we could spend up to 105% of the cap. We then repeated the process in 23,24 and 25. If we don't spend 105% in 2026 we don't lose any money. We could in fact pay 95% of the cap again this year which would mean we could shift the overpay down another 12 months.

I would argue that currently as we are a mid to bottom table side we should be paying below 100% anyway.

 

[SainterinSydney]

Our great mate Tom Morris is reporting we don't really want to give Windy a four-year deal because they "like him" but don't "love him". I understand. Windy is a great person to have at the club, but not if he's asking for a big slice of the pie.

Additionally, Korn says the Flanders rumour doesn't tickle his pickle, but MacKenzie does.

Lastly, just saw that Ben Paton has been delisted after one season at the Swans.

Tom "What a Scoop" Morris

 

[TheJackal]

Cmac gives me young Sam Mitchell vibes.

Calm, has time & uses it well.

With time I have little doubt he'll be a very very good player.

I don't want to help Hawforn in anyway, especially to jag a Butters/Trac but opportunities to add young players of Cmac's quality don't come along very often.

All year we've spoken about how rubbish the draft is. Not a lot has happened to dispel that in my opinion. We often get excited because we see names and start getting interested in the potential draftees we like but end of the day, if Flanders or CMac were in this year's draft pool they'd be top picks.

I'm not understanding the notion we now have that we must keep our first this year in this draft.

 

[stavro#4]

 

[CursingFijian]

Parents are taking the piss now. ****ing sounds like one of those auto generated names on a video game to pad out a playing list

**** the list gets worse and worse. WTF is this shit:

Still can't top West Coast NGA player Wes Walley

 

[Schwarzes_Goal]

He's planting the seeds early. "Saints surely couldn't miss finals with all of these new toys!"

If we look shaky in the early stages of the year, then the mouth breather will be licking his lips with all the content he will be provided lol.

Absolutely this.
He loves to jump on a team early with big expectations because it opens up two possible future scenarios for his particular brand of hot take journalism.

- The team performs (Hawthorn) -
We become "his Saints" and he tells everyone who will listen he was on us early.

Or......

- The team underperforms (Bulldogs)
He consistently belts the club over the head with the expectations he had put on us at every opportunity.

 

[Yawkey way]

I'm glad you stated this explicitly. Thank you.

This thought lies implicit within many posts here lately.

It's a ridiculous assumption I reckon.

Nas is 22. He'll be 24 in 2027. What we need to do by 2027 is demonstrate we're well placed long-term.

We shouldn't be rushing to achieve sugar-hit finals placings in 2026 and 2027.

What this year taught us was no-one knows what Nas is thinking.

But I love how we've immediately transitioned from....

"family is what will take him home, not money or anything else"

into

"we must achieve immediate success or he'll leave".

We’re not really doing too much damage if we restrict the ott offers to quality.

Nas we were cornered and had to do it. We tried to sign him for over a season and were outplayed by his team, Adelaide and port drove up the price but without the assets to satisfy us. If and when he leaves $2 million goes with him and picks/players come back.

TDK overpaying for a free agent is standard, how much is open to debate. Part 2 as I understand it was Marshall out and a pick in. With a front loaded deal, get a younger better ruckman.

Any of Flanders, Mackenzie, Walsh are all quality mids which we still badly need. The cost is the unknown but all are worth a first and good contract. If we want them there’s no way around it. Again part of that plan is Steele out, cash off the books a decent pick back and again we get younger and hopefully better.

Now we’re into the yeah it helps but don’t go crazy with the cash or picks bin.

Ryan would help but I’d be against paying overs in cash or picks, he also probably keeps Collard out. Question mark is does he replace Butler.

Silvagni is a free agent who’s a cash only guy plus 3 + 1 won’t cruel us long term.

Aleer I hope doesn’t happen if we get Silvagni but if it does it’s a little too long on a little too much.

I quite like what we’re doing as long as we retain Windhager I’ll be happy enough. It’s a risk but not a massive one and we’ve really been backed into it to some extent.

Still a lot to play out and a lot of if’s but with a fit list you’d fancy our chances to play finals. Nas must have delivered thousands of memberships, I bought 3 myself. So a finals list and probably record membership is something to celebrate imo.

Just sign windy !.