List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
​

 

[gringo2011]

No reason why Saints can’t be the next Geelong for the next 15-20 years. If Nas stays long term and the Saints can rocket up the ladder no reason why it can’t be a big destination club like Geelong and Collingwood. Need to think big.

A very aggressive strategy this trade period but worth a risk.

It's easier to maintain momentum than create it out of nothing. Port Adelaide, Sydney, Geelong, Collingwood etc have played finals for a good part of the last 20 years. Throw Richmond, Hawks, Dogs and Brisbane in who have had successful runs in there and there aren't many spots left for the rest of the clubs. We need to aim to stick ourselves in there.

Hopefully this top up is a kick starter for a longer sustained period. We should be aiming for the absolute top now.

 

[gringo2011]

Lol

View attachment 2411793

Need to dream big. The Crows we're bottom 4 in 2024. Won three less games than us. Have added some talent and a few matured. If Max King could do a Tilthorp or even stay fit there is no reason that we shouldn't expect a decent run at finals.

 

[Holy Hunter Clark]

Box needs a spot too

Looked great on a wing with his contested marking. Might replace Wood there?

 

[gringo2011]

Reckon only 3 of those are genuine half-forwards
Henry & Hill are wingers
Hall & Pou are inside mids
Yes Hall is good in there, but he is a better mid.

Disagree on that. Hall is a very handy mid but as a high HF he is probably close to the best in AFL. I think ideally he plays that HHF role and we put him in when we need impact. Guys like Steele, Garcia and Macrae can take the bulk of the centre clearance work. Prefer that with Nas too. Impact in bursts rather than full time.

 

[gringo2011]

Box needs a spot too

I'd try him off HB, his size and speed are good and he's as tough as nails. Eventually pushes Macrae out of the midfield ....hopefully.

 

[ratboy94]

I think Damon Barrett might be the biggest Saints hater ever, absolute bias gutter “analyst” “journalist” ever, he’s a such a retched hack

 

[Saint_Dos]

With all these names we are looking to bring in. Will be tight to fit them all in if they do opt in?

De Koning, Aleer, Flanders, McKenzie, Ryan, Fincher, Silvagni - 7 players in
Plus we need to upgrade contracted Caminiti and Stocker off rookie list - so need 9 spots

Cordy, Webster are gone. Byrnes, Jones, Carroll, Schoey are uncontracted to my understanding so if they left that gives us 6. Hoping Windy doesnt leave but that could make 7. Would need to trade out another 2-3 as i think we have to draft at least 2 at the draft as well.

Few words on here about Steele but I dont see it happening (unless I missed something). Similar thoughts about Butler.
Marshall may opt to leave but reports are we want to keep him?

McLennan, Boyd, Heath all rookies so wont open spots for the players we want to bring in. Unless we look to delist and re-rookie someone who is contracted but no names are jumping out at me on our list.

Without a significant surprise of someone requesting a trade, I dont know how we will get all of them.

 

[Armoooo]

With all these names we are looking to bring in. Will be tight to fit them all in if they do opt in?

De Koning, Aleer, Flanders, McKenzie, Ryan, Fincher, Silvagni - 7 players in
Plus we need to upgrade contracted Caminiti and Stocker off rookie list - so need 9 spots

Cordy, Webster are gone. Byrnes, Jones, Carroll, Schoey are uncontracted to my understanding so if they left that gives us 6. Hoping Windy doesnt leave but that could make 7. Would need to trade out another 2-3 as i think we have to draft at least 2 at the draft as well.

Few words on here about Steele but I dont see it happening (unless I missed something). Similar thoughts about Butler.
Marshall may opt to leave but reports are we want to keep him?

McLennan, Boyd, Heath all rookies so wont open spots for the players we want to bring in. Unless we look to delist and re-rookie someone who is contracted but no names are jumping out at me on our list.

Without a significant surprise of someone requesting a trade, I dont know how we will get all of them.

Really don't get why we re-signed Dow, would have been one of the first off the list for me.

I think we should definitely try and find a new home for Butler. Maybe North would be interested for a 4th, they were playing Konstanty and he's a step up from him.

 

[L_W_P]

To me Phillipou plays forward with bursts on ball. Flanders plays HB/mid changing up with Nas. Macrae and Garcia as inside mids. Steele really has to swap up with Phillipou or get traded out or depth IMO.

The wingmen can also play high HF. Probably Hill's best role and Wilson looks like his natural successor. He's a genuine scoring threat inside 50. Henry looks like he's a fair way off best 22 still at this point.

Wilkie - Caminiti - LOC/Stocker
Tauru - JSOS/Aleer* - Flanders*
Sinclair - Macrae - Boxshall
Sharman - King - Wilson
Higgins - Marshall - Ryan*
TDK - Garcia - NWM
Owens - Hall - Phillipou - Windhager - Henry

Dow, Jones, Hill, Wood, Butler & Howard all senior depth.

Travaglia, Carroll, Hastie, Collard, Keeler & Dodson developing alongside draftees.

I am assuming that Steele is traded, possibly in an Aleer deal.

I don't think we get CMac from the Hawks. I feel like that's us ruffling their feathers to make a Butters/Merrett play that little bit harder.

I think RoMa will stay. Everything we have heard from all parties is that the plan is for 2 rucks with TDK. Geelong might go hard for him but it'd have to be a pretty awesome offer.

Massive off-season coming up.

Nail it and we could vault top 4-6. If it blows up then the next decade or two will be pretty bloody tough after Tassie vacuum all the talent up!

 

[L_W_P]

With all these names we are looking to bring in. Will be tight to fit them all in if they do opt in?

De Koning, Aleer, Flanders, McKenzie, Ryan, Fincher, Silvagni - 7 players in
Plus we need to upgrade contracted Caminiti and Stocker off rookie list - so need 9 spots

Rekon we only get one of Aleer or JSOS and one of Flanders or CMac.

That's 4 plus Fincher.

Do we have to upgrade Hammer & Stocker? They have contracts for next year already so presumably they are all set?

Jones, Byrnes, Webster, Cordy & Arie would be a clean five that are gone or out of contract.

Steele could be traded in the Aleer deal.

RoMa might go to Geelong.

Windy probably staying but if North made us a stupid offer...

Are we still rookie listing Tex Wanganeen and Voss Jnr?

 

[bird_man]

I legit feel bad for Gresh. His development at AFL level has been pretty poor.

Played as a mid in the juniors and then got shunted into the forward pocket at AFL level.

I appreciate that his size means it's gonna be hard to compete with guys like Cripps & Bont week after week but he really should be the cream on a midfield cake.

Stick him on a forward flank for the Dogs instead of Arthur Jones or Anthony Scott and he's a far better player.

This happens with quite a few players. Most of the best draftees are playing midfield but not all of them can cut it as mids at AFL level so get shifted to flanks or pockets.

Gresham had every chance at St Kilda to make it as a midfielder. He wasn't great in the role and showed he had talent playing as a small forward.

 

[L_W_P]

His goal conversion and disposal are probably the worst I’ve ever seen, and he plays a role where that aspect is expected to be good I thought he was the next Gary Junior when he started. He made good coin, hope he’s ok.

2015 Draft Profile: Jade Gresham

Jade Gresham Northern Knights Height: 177 cm Weight: 74 kg Strengths: Intelligence, leadership, accumulator, endurance Weaknesses: Speed, hurt factor Player comparison: Dion Prestia First year impact: Near future prospect (may play between 5-10 games in year one) Kicking: Average Marking...

central.rookieme.com

I was pumped to get him in his draft year.

The issue is that at AFL level he's been thrown into contest after contest when his best work is done with a bit more time and space.

He's like Caleb Daniel or, as the profile suggests, Dion Prestia.

Start him on a wing/half forward with a proper midfield to feed him the ball in space and he'd be a far better player.

I still don't want him back though.

 

[Desperate saint]

I'm not saying that you specifically are saying the following, but for me, comments like this beg the question - what did people think Lyon was up to? Did they honestly believe he was wanting to cash a paycheque and simply hang around for 4 years or more doing essentially nothing? He is a highly competitive person and if he wanted an easy workday and reasonable paycheck he could have easily stayed in the media.

It blows my mind that people buy into and believe some of the various narratives, things like Lyon only wanting to be ultra-defensive, being in cahoots with the President and wanting to avoid scrutiny and hang onto the coaches job for the bucks despite being no good for the modern era etc

SOS cops the same thing - not interested in success at the Saints, there because he's RTB's mate, only wants revenge on Carlton because of a falling out, not interested in success at the Saints, has free reign to use our list to exact revenge on Carlton with no oversight or thought for our lists performance......

Do people actually believe this kind of bullshit?

RTB and our President clearly stated there was a plan and there was a timeframe....we have done exactly what was said, in that effectively we have gone to the draft for 4 years or so, built a talented young core and we are now shopping around for the missing pieces of the list via trades/free agency which is underpinned by 4 years of salary cap strategy/savings.....

great post

Injury really lost him his weapon too. His burst and evasiveness were his weapons early. Without that he's really up against it.

Yep lost a yard with his Archilles

 

[Diehard Saint]

"Good luck with player morale."
Such a bitter baseless snipe. Just **** off already Purple, you turd. You wish North had anything like we do. Let's see Sheezel do what Nas did in the last 5 games this season.

Sheezel is going to be an absolute star.

But 100% correct about the little weasel.

 

[Armoooo]

Is Schoenmaker a chance to be rookied?

I would like to keep him and Heath. But man it looks like it's gonna be tight for list spots.

 

[L_W_P]

Is Schoenmaker a chance to be rookied?

I would like to keep him and Heath. But man it looks like it's gonna be tight for list spots.

Maybe.

I think Hastie & Tauru have taken away any chance he probably had. If we bring in Aleer or JSOS that's another one in front of him.

Still have Barratt as well.

I love Arie's boot but he doesn't seem to be able to find enough of the ball up the ground to make it as a tall winger and he's just not defensively minded enough to be a true 3rd tall in the D50.

 

[Sully111]

Box needs a spot too

We love the Box

 

[stfan]

Which team does Purple follow?

He is purely "Team Purple"

 

[thekizzler]

It's easier to maintain momentum than create it out of nothing. Port Adelaide, Sydney, Geelong, Collingwood etc have played finals for a good part of the last 20 years. Throw Richmond, Hawks, Dogs and Brisbane in who have had successful runs in there and there aren't many spots left for the rest of the clubs. We need to aim to stick ourselves in there.

Hopefully this top up is a kick starter for a longer sustained period. We should be aiming for the absolute top now.

Hear hear.

This looks like the goal.

Drag the club out of the mire permanently.

16,000 Nas memberships are a great start. I understand the questions about Ryan's age and salary, but he is box office. Get dormant Saints fans excited about going to the footy. Lift crowd numbers.

I love watching the Saints and go to most games in Melbourne but after the Melbourne game, I was just so pumped to watch Nas play every week even though the games and their results were pretty irrelevant.

There is no guarantees in this industry - especially of sustained success or even one-off success as we know quite well.

But the current administration deserve praise for what they are trying to do, as opposed to what's going on at North, Carlton and Essendon.

Let's say hypothetically we fall short with the recruits we bring in, we at least have a young base coming through that we can keep trying to build on.

 

[SaintsofSteel]

With all these names we are looking to bring in. Will be tight to fit them all in if they do opt in?

De Koning, Aleer, Flanders, McKenzie, Ryan, Fincher, Silvagni - 7 players in
Plus we need to upgrade contracted Caminiti and Stocker off rookie list - so need 9 spots

Cordy, Webster are gone. Byrnes, Jones, Carroll, Schoey are uncontracted to my understanding so if they left that gives us 6. Hoping Windy doesnt leave but that could make 7. Would need to trade out another 2-3 as i think we have to draft at least 2 at the draft as well.

Few words on here about Steele but I dont see it happening (unless I missed something). Similar thoughts about Butler.
Marshall may opt to leave but reports are we want to keep him?

McLennan, Boyd, Heath all rookies so wont open spots for the players we want to bring in. Unless we look to delist and re-rookie someone who is contracted but no names are jumping out at me on our list.

Without a significant surprise of someone requesting a trade, I dont know how we will get all of them.

I doubt we get both of Aleer & Silvagni likewise Flanders & McKenzie it will one of or the other. Even so there is going to be significant list change and it will be interesting if Marshall and/or Steele are still at the club next year.

If we do lose Marshall Id imagine Heath will be retained, but you would also hope SOS is working on extending Dodson ASAP, before the Adelaide clubs come calling if they havent already.

The other consideration for our recruiters is that Essendon currently have 48 players on their list. At the draft they have two early picks plus two NGA's, so they are going to have to cull 10 at least. Some of their SSP and MSD selections should be of interest to our club, they wont fit them all in.

One of the players they listed was Lachlan Blakiston the WAFL ruckman I wanted over Boyd, the HS reported today that given his versatility playing key defence he will likely get another contract at Essendon.

 

[beside the seaside]

Is Schoenmaker a chance to be rookied?

I would like to keep him and Heath. But man it looks like it's gonna be tight for list spots.

I think Arie is gone

 

[St Neil]

I use wipr for phone big footy in case anyone’s looking for a tip x

DuckDuckGo is excellent.

 

[Joffaboy]

Nobody can seriously argue Hannerbery was a success at the Saints.
I was ok with the move as we had to spend th cap on someone. However it was an abject failure.
On the flip side we had injury busts like Mason Wood

32

Mason Wood

Age

32

Ht

192cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.2

3star

K

7.8

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.2

4star

CL

0.3

2star

D

8.3

2star

K

2.7

1star

HB

5.7

3star

M

1.7

2star

T

1.3

2star

CL

0.0

1star

D

15.8

4star

K

8.6

4star

HB

7.2

5star

M

4.6

5star

T

2.6

4star

CL

0.6

3star

come in and overcome his injuries and has been a great asset. Wilkie, a rookie at 24 hasn't missed a game, Sharman, Hall.
So whole Hanners was a bust, they even out.

 

[stfan]

I'm not saying that you specifically are saying the following, but for me, comments like this beg the question - what did people think Lyon was up to? Did they honestly believe he was wanting to cash a paycheque and simply hang around for 4 years or more doing essentially nothing? He is a highly competitive person and if he wanted an easy workday and reasonable paycheck he could have easily stayed in the media.

It blows my mind that people buy into and believe some of the various narratives, things like Lyon only wanting to be ultra-defensive, being in cahoots with the President and wanting to avoid scrutiny and hang onto the coaches job for the bucks despite being no good for the modern era etc

SOS cops the same thing - not interested in success at the Saints, there because he's RTB's mate, only wants revenge on Carlton because of a falling out, not interested in success at the Saints, has free reign to use our list to exact revenge on Carlton with no oversight or thought for our lists performance......

Do people actually believe this kind of bullshit?

RTB and our President clearly stated there was a plan and there was a timeframe....we have done exactly what was said, in that effectively we have gone to the draft for 4 years or so, built a talented young core and we are now shopping around for the missing pieces of the list via trades/free agency which is underpinned by 4 years of salary cap strategy/savings.....

Well said.

I think many may have forgotten what he said when he arrived back.


"I want to get as good as we can, as quick as we can,"

"I don't know how long it will take, but I know it can be done."

"In my coaching resume there is unfinished business. I need to climb Everest and I want to do it with this team."

 

[St Neil]

That's the issue. We overpaid. Gave up a second for him which was an utter joke.

We traded pick 39 and a F2 for pick 28.

An 11 pick upgrade in the second round plus Hannebery for a future second.

It was a salary dump and we punted that we could get his body right.

Genius move if it worked. Poor trade if it didn’t.

He was cooked.