List Mgmt. 2025 Premiership(s) List Making and Trading

[GreyCrow]

Players that could leave

The main Crow facing uncertain future beyond 2025 was Reilly O’Brien, prior to the ruckman signing a three-year extension, while Matt Crouchwill retire at season’s end. It leaves Taylor Walker as the only big name still without a deal, but the veteran forward’s impeccable form suggests he’ll go round again. Jordon Butts is somewhat on the outer after getting forced out of Matthew Nicks’ back six, so it’s possible a rival club could make a play for the key defender.

Smith?

Smith?

 

[1970crow]

Sounds like every baby boomer politician for the last 30 years creating unsustainable debt that future generations will be crippled by! Re backloading, its not smart and removes a lot of flexibility in the future to look at picking up opportunities that may arise (ie try not to be 100% fully invested at any point). And fire sales getting cents in the dollar is a very silly list management posn to ever put yourself in

I'll ignore your petty political viewpoint, especially considering unsustainable debt creation has really only become a thing since COVID.

Pies won a flag in their 3rd season after their 2020 fire sale. We invested heavily in our 'contending' list and were squeezed for a while. Reality is that when you're at the pointy end, you tend to have to narrow the focus to retain the group that you think can win you a flag. Would be lovely to be able to keep frontloading and paying 95% of the cap each year, but unfortunately that's not what happens when you've built a list that is genuinely capable of contending over multiple years.

 

[119others]

Smith?

Smith?

yeah agreed, surely an oversight. Not a very insightful article and they didnt mention our little champion number 4 either

 

[119others]

I'll ignore your petty political viewpoint, especially considering unsustainable debt creation has really only become a thing since COVID.

Pies won a flag in their 3rd season after their 2020 fire sale. We invested heavily in our 'contending' list and were squeezed for a while. Reality is that when you're at the pointy end, you tend to have to narrow the focus to retain the group that you think can win you a flag. Would be lovely to be able to keep frontloading and paying 95% of the cap each year, but unfortunately that's not what happens when you've built a list that is genuinely capable of contending over multiple years.

not suggesting a team in contention is paying 95% - thats clearly not the case and quite the opposite (youd be paying likely over 100% with previous banked unders)

What I am saying is a strategy of loading up on players like Draper and Oliver and heavily backloading their salary to allow us to compete now is not a smart strategy. The crunch is always going to come. You may consider a degree of backloading but not so onerous where a firesale becomes inevitable as you then end up selling assets for cents in the dollar AND contributing to their salary at another club often - surely you agree with this?

 

[Redline]

I really don't want to lose Butts and I know he is in contract but I think we will.

He is going to get offered a lot more money somewhere else to the point we won't want to match it. I have a bad feeling we will end up not getting a great return for him either given he is currently not in our best 22.

 

[MRB37]

Looks like another two years for Phillipou (til 2028) now sadly
Saints building nicely..

The problem for them is they're gonna hit the salary cap ceiling very quickly with the way they're handing out multi million dollar deals and it's potentially going to impact how much depth they can keep and how much more talent they can add to push into a top 4 type team.

 

[MRB37]

I really don't want to lose Butts and I know he is in contract but I think we will.

He is going to get offered a lot more money somewhere else to the point we won't want to match it. I have a bad feeling we will end up not getting a great return for him either given he is currently not in our best 22.

Bulldogs.

I think it'll be the same sort of haul as Alex Keath where we got a 3rd and a future 2nd.

 

[BRL121]

The problem for them is they're gonna hit the salary cap ceiling very quickly with the way they're handing out multi million dollar deals and it's potentially going to impact how much depth they can keep and how much more talent they can add to push into a top 4 type team.

No problem: we just take NWM off their hands in two years to help them out.

 

[spenze]

Smith?

Smith?

He hit another trigger

 

[MRB37]

Mark Bickley

Mark Bickley

Age

56

Ht

178cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

19.4

5star

K

11.7

4star

HB

7.8

5star

M

3.3

3star

T

2.7

4star

No current season stats available

D

21.2

5star

K

11.0

4star

HB

10.2

5star

M

3.2

4star

T

3.8

5star

suggesting we trade Sholl for Hollands straight up.

 

[1970crow]

not suggesting a team in contention is paying 95% - thats clearly not the case and quite the opposite (youd be paying likely over 100% with previous banked unders)

What I am saying is a strategy of loading up on players like Draper and Oliver and heavily backloading their salary to allow us to compete now is not a smart strategy. The crunch is always going to come. You may consider a degree of backloading but not so onerous where a firesale becomes inevitable as you then end up selling assets for cents in the dollar AND contributing to their salary at another club often - surely you agree with this?

If I offered you the 2026 and 2027 flags with a fire sale required in 2029, what would your answer be? The goal is to win flags, sometimes risks need to be taken and sometimes they don't come off. If you refuse to go all in, you probably don't end up getting it done. I'm more than happy to roll the dice and if the end result is that we have to dump a couple of players due to a squeeze in the future, then so be it. We don't know for certain that every flag winning club wasn't sitting on a future time bomb but have managed their way out of it without resorting to a fire sale. Hell, Suns managed to get themselves in the predicament without ever having even played finals. Its likely a lot more common than you think it is.

 

[Mutineer]

Bulldogs.

I think it'll be the same sort of haul as Alex Keath where we got a 3rd and a future 2nd.

Wasn't Alex Keath best 22 and not 2nd banana behind Murray as Butts seems to be?

 

[1970crow]

I really don't want to lose Butts and I know he is in contract but I think we will.

He is going to get offered a lot more money somewhere else to the point we won't want to match it. I have a bad feeling we will end up not getting a great return for him either given he is currently not in our best 22.

He's contracted and very clearly a best 22 quality KPD, I doubt we let him go cheaply.

 

[MRB37]

Wasn't Alex Keath best 22 and not 2nd banana behind Murray as Butts seems to be?

He was that last year. He was also 28, uncontacted and traded with stress fractures in his legs.

Butts is 25 and basically has 4 years of being in our 22 until he got overtaken by Nick Murray over the last 12 months or so, which isn't because Butts isn't talented.

 

[1970crow]

Wasn't Alex Keath best 22 and not 2nd banana behind Murray as Butts seems to be?

Does that matter though? Sam Jacobs was 4th banana at Carlton, doesn't mean that he wasn't first ruck quality. You can't help who's in front of you. Plus, Keath was uncontracted, Butts isn't. If anyone wants him on the list in 2026, he won't be going at a discount.

 

[Redline]

Mark Bickley suggesting we trade Sholl for Hollands straight up.

Carlton probably want to offload him but I doubt they want to take Scholl on for any longer than one year. I think they would be more inclined to push for a draft pick.

 

[DJ75]

He was that last year. He was also 28, uncontacted and traded with stress fractures in his legs.

Butts is 25 and basically has 4 years of being in our 22 until he got overtaken by Nick Murray over the last 12 months or so, which isn't because Butts isn't talented.

We should have brought Butts back in against North.
I trust him a whole lot more than Murray in finals. Butts knows his limitations. Murray still makes crazy errors.

 

[Redline]

Does that matter though? Sam Jacobs was 4th banana at Carlton, doesn't mean that he wasn't first ruck quality. You can't help who's in front of you. Plus, Keath was uncontracted, Butts isn't. If anyone wants him on the list in 2026, he won't be going at a discount.

I like it but once someone offers him a heap more money and he is out the door its hard to keep that stance with player management pressure.

I am not really sure what his value is, I just feel like he will nominate the club and we go from there.

I'd try to keep him at all costs, I am just not sure we will given what he is going to be offered. Hope I'm wrong.

 

[MRB37]

We should have brought Butts back in against North.
I trust him a whole lot more than Murray in finals. Butts knows his limitations. Murray still makes crazy errors.

My gut feel is the coaches think Murray is more capable with the ball in his hands than Butts, which is why they go with him and give him more of a license to be a bit more aggressive with it. I haven't really seen that side of his game look great since the knee reco though.

 

[119others]

If I offered you the 2026 and 2027 flags with a fire sale required in 2029, what would your answer be? The goal is to win flags, sometimes risks need to be taken and sometimes they don't come off. If you refuse to go all in, you probably don't end up getting it done. I'm more than happy to roll the dice and if the end result is that we have to dump a couple of players due to a squeeze in the future, then so be it. We don't know for certain that every flag winning club wasn't sitting on a future time bomb but have managed their way out of it without resorting to a fire sale. Hell, Suns managed to get themselves in the predicament without ever having even played finals. Its likely a lot more common than you think it is.

Yes if I could have guaranteed flags I would certainly do this. I am sure you can see what the issue is here though.

Reidy has recently said our intention is to create the longest possible premiership window so not sure how the backloading factors into this - and in reality lets leave it as its a little hypothetical and I am sure we will all be happy starting with one flag this year

 

[hugecannon]

Yep, Id not be surprised if Richmond leapfrog all 3 of those sides next year too. Its rare that firesale sides go anywhere but down the next season.

Richmond nailed it, and will be playing finals again before you know it.

They had some luck with the timing in the year they cut deep players with value like Rioli and Bolton getting multiple picks plus a very deep and varied draft to pick in.

Compare to us bottoming out during covid when it was harder to pick players with exposed form and players like Crouch not getting the offers we expected and being out of contract etc.

 

[hugecannon]

Wasn't Alex Keath best 22 and not 2nd banana behind Murray as Butts seems to be?

Yea but IMO was farc better as a 3rd tall rather than a KPD which Butts definitely is.

Butts should be worth far more than Keath was, especially if McKay is being paid close to $1million per year

 

[Betts are off]

Mark Bickley suggesting we trade Sholl for Hollands straight up.

He must have read my post from yesterday. You're welcome Mark

 

[Carn The Texan]

Mark Bickley suggesting we trade Sholl for Hollands straight up.

Not the worst idea. Wonder if it finds legs.

 

[Scorpus]

Mark Bickley suggesting we trade Sholl for Hollands straight up.

Sholl is worth more IMO. Hollands is worth nothing after Voss' comments

Sholl for Hollands and a third round pick