List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
​

 

[jwikked]

A good account and an excel spreadsheet and knowing of the rules beats dodgy paperbags and farms

It clearly doesn’t lol

 

[snails13]

Posted this in January 2006

Some wonder why I hate Carlton's very existence.

Still rings true today about Carlton. Two decades later and they are just the same. Enjoy

Joffaboy said:
Correct just ask Pagan. he won a massive contract of $850k a season from Carlton to take them to a wooden spoon.

As for cheap shots. You haven't got a clue n00b. You have been around five minutes and get all uppity when a Saints fan has a go at Carlton.

Well lemming let me fill you in. For years you and your ilk arrogantly and smugly agreed with every disparaging insult your club in the guise of Elliott and co spouted about other clubs including the Saints.


"Let them rot" - was the quote atttributed to Collins in 1984 when the Saints were almost insolvent and could only pay their creditors 20c in the dollar. Greats who were loyal like Trevor Barker went to his grave never being paid what he was owed, all for the love of his football team. But we have this arrogant slime enncouraging the then VFL to give the Saints no help and effectively let them fold.

"Who would go to that rabble" were the words of Elliott in 1998 when the Saints were looking at Brittian to coach the Saints. All the arrogant Carlton fans chuckled. Yup what a rabble, look at their finances, look at their wooden spoons.

2001 - Hamill, humiliated and forced out of Carlton by Elliott, who "will hang him out to dry". Even though it was the Carlton admin that sunk the boots into Hamill, Carlton supporters from that moment have disparaged Hamill and called him a traitor (even though they welcolme traitors like Stevens into the fold). Nothing wrong with not liking an ex player but the hatred was taken to idiotic extremes, all because he left Carlton.

2001-2002. All we got from Carlton was. St.Kilda are again embracing mediocrity, all the PP's all the No.1 draft picks blah blah blah. Carlton dont rebuild blah blah blah. Carlton have pride, St.Kilda have none etc.....

2002 - The biggie. First Carlton win their first wooden spoon. personally for me nothing to cheer about, I really couldn't have cared except for the fact that all the arrogance and high horsed big noting done over the years by Collins, Elliott and co, wholeheartedly backed up by the Carlton supporters (who kept voting Elliott in). The Carlton supporters deserved what they got.

But the big news was that Carlton had been caught cheating again. This time the league threw the book at them. So in light of losing their PP and N0.1 DP Goddard goes to the Saints and Wells to North.

The hue and cry from Carlton supporters was amazing. First denying they cheated then railing against St.Kilda because Goddard was once a Carlton supporter. This led to an effort to bombard Goddard with emails to get him to come "home".

Then we have the insults and disparaging posts about how "supercoach" Pagan was going to take you up the ladder and how Grant Thomas couldn't coach. When asked for examples since that time, not one has been forthcoming. When asked for a head to head while Pagan has been at Carlton, the lemmings go mute. Not one fact to back up their insults, just another cheap shot at St.Kilda

So what do we have. Carlton arrogance and schadenfreude at the plight of others and then insults and dismissive arrogance about St.Kilda's chances, here is a list

1) St.Kilda was "given" their current list
2)St.Kilda wil lose all of their players to other clubs
3) St.Kilda "stole" Hamill and Goddard
4) Grant Thomas is absolute crap but Pagan is a supercoach
5) Carlton never cheated and the AFL are out to get us and favour St.Kilda
6) Its football socialism, and AFL have wrecked football by given everyone a chance.

All of the above in various forms from Carlton supporters over the years.

But then what do we get in 2005? Carlton are a financial rabble. And who is in charge? The "Let them Rot" person himself in Collins. Funny now it is different when the boot is on the other foot isn't it?

I enjoy Carltons plight, not because i want to see them "Rot" as Collins would callously put it, but because arrogant Carlton supporters who basked in the reflected glory and bullying of Collins and Elliott et al are getting their comeuppance and are getting a lesson in humility and how to be humble.

And the final irony of this whole sorry saga. Carlton fans wanted their team to TANK, that's right actually wanting their team to lose games so they can get better draft picks. Thats correct, you heard me clearly, that self same socialist system that has supposedly brought Carlton's dominance to its end, along with that dastardly AFL's connivance, has been embraced, has been lauded. And Carlton supporters wanted their team to throw games to effectively compromise it

All through the insults, the questioning of the Saints integrity, culture, history, all the barbs at the "free ride" we were supposedly give, all the dismissive eyerolling and hand waving and arrogance toward our "gifted list", did I ever, ever hear that St.Kilda didn't try. I heard pathetic, culture, rabble, 26 wooden spoons, 1 premiership etc, but never did I read that the Saints turned it up.

Never did I read a Saints supporter wanting the Saints to lose. On the contrary, if Wolf had not hit the post against Sydney in 2002, or we tried so hard at Optus Oval against Freo in 2002 who were on track for the finals, we could have drafted both Goddard and Wells.

For years Carlton lemmings like you have questioned St.Kilda's character, integrity, worth, and culture and then, when it finally dawns on Carlton fans that they are in the 21st century not the 20th where rich benefactors will buy players and therefore flags, what do they do? Do they suck it up and show some integrity, some character, some intestinal fortitude, the self same virtues they accuse others of not having? No, they Want their team to lose as a perceived way of an easy climb up the ladder.

And you have the temerity to reckon a couple of St.Kilda fans have constant cheap shots:

Fair dinkum, from the crap we have had to endure at your clubs hands over the years and the rampant hypocrisy of its thin skinned supporters, I reckon you have a flaming hide.

No bugger off n00b, have an idea before you begin your petty harping.

I was just a reader of Footy Forum back then and following our last game in 2011,some Carlton dick head came on the Saints forum and told us how weak as piss we were and he said i will bet any money Carlton have multiple more flags before you pricks win your next one

 

[Max the great]

Well my mete was spot on when he told me 2 months ago we were signing JSOS. Fair play to him

 

[HitTheBoundary]

 

[Saintos The ITK]

Remember, Saints are apparently paying a decent portion of Billings wage to play at Melbourne. Or play in the VFL.

Still????

 

[Anythings_sipposible]

Nope. These players all had their contracts heavily front loaded. That is why we have so much cap space to spend big.
Hill´s last two years will be on very small wages, the others very much unders, having taken the early bump of front loading.

Having said that, we will have. a plan for paying the young players coming through..

It has clearly been a well thought out strategy to get in a lot of young players, allowing us to front load the current stars, thereby creating a warchest that we are now splashing, to the general shock and amazement of the general AFL community.

100%. We clearly have a deliberate plan to load up on free agents and to trade in players this year, having front loaded all of our older guys, and not wanting to make the same mistakes of the past and over pay the younger players (Nas aside).

This is on the back on 3-4 years going heavy on the draft, a period that has seen up bring turn over more than half our list, and bring in a handful of top prospects.

This has always been the plan, Ross and Bassat have been quite open about how this has always been the plan, and signing Nas on has only steeled our reserve, and made the decision to go all out with banked cap even more obvious.

The only query I have is about the quality of the players we're bringing in. JSOS, Ryan, Aleer, even combined, are not going to have as big an impact as say a Callahan or a LDU would have had, but at the end of the day you've got to play the hand you're dealt.

That being said, this kind of strategy has worked for Collingwood (2022 they brought in Hill, Mitchell, McStay, and Framtonton and they won the flag in 2023) and Geelong (brought in players like Cameron, Smith, Stengle over a few years, and wind a premiership in 2022), and it may very well work for Adelaide this year.

This, on top of the league having no real stand out, super star teams at the moment gives me confidence that we could see a real leap up the ladder next year if we can get these players in, get a full season out of King, Phillipou and Howard, and maybe draw a better fixture with the hype we're generating in the media.

I just hope this isn't a false dawn like Essendon's 2023 trade period, which seems to have cursed them to continued mediocrity, or our own 2019 period, which only resulted in one finals win in a bit of an asterix year.

 

[stavro#4]

5 years and between 800-850k

 

[Max the great]

5 years and between 800-850k

Funny the media are claiming it's a last minute thing when my mate was absolutely adamant 2 months ago that it was done. They know absolutely nothing

 

[Molly29]

I'm salivating at the prospect of what's to come in the next St.Kilda Vs Carlton clash...... should be an absolute ripper

 

[Dr Spaceman]

So TDK’s not much taller than Ryan?

Better keep Ro then

 

[malevu]

I look forward to seeing what all the doomsayers in the media like Purple and Cornes say, after we land Ryan and Aleer too and we still hold our first round draft pick. Especially if we retain Windy and Roma.

 

[Anythings_sipposible]

I'm salivating at the prospect of what's to come in the next St.Kilda Vs Carlton clash...... should be an absolute ripper

Added bonus is we should get them as our double up next year. Bringing in JSOS could buy us an addition 4 premiership points

 

[gringo2011]

$4 million over 5 years for an almost 28-year old who's played 29 games in 3 years. Other clubs offered $2.6mil over 4 years.

I'm not filled with enthusiasm.

The strategy is clear - throw absolutely everything at a flag.

If we keep Marshall and add Ryan too, we're a good chance of finals in 2026. Maybe even winning a final like 2020. We've added quality and depth.

But I'm not convinced these moves are in our long-term interests. TDK uses loads of cap space over 8 years (whether the blindly optimistic fanatics on this board admit it or not), while Ryan and JSOS turn 30 in 2026 and 2027 respectively.

A solid finals side needs to be a B average and have the bulk of players 100 games and over.

Elite- Nas
A grade- Wilkie, Marshall, Sinclair, Hall
Potential A grade next year- King, Snags, Windhager, Owens, TDK, Flanders.
B grade- Ryan, Steele, Macrae, Wilson, Phillipou, Wood, Sharman, Hill, Howard, Silvagni, TDK, King, Snags, Windhager, Owens.
C graders- Stocker, Henry, Garcia, Tauru, Boxshall.

Games played needs adding to but there is a pretty serious nucleus there. Interesting that Draft Guru has us pretty high on the gradings but Nas classed as B+ and Hall still on D grade. We should have a list any least at Hawks level and no excuses.

AFL Club Lists for 2025 - Draftguru

www.draftguru.com.au

 

[Xxxx66]

I'm salivating at the prospect of what's to come in the next St.Kilda Vs Carlton clash...... should be an absolute ripper

For the bloose fans, Maybe the club can introduce a 1 game membership for 1 week to celebrate number 1 signing on.

 

[Spider Eater]

Might be a mass exodus with delistings to make room for new players.

Exodus was when Moses lead his people to the promised land.

 

[my name was taken]

Watch the shift of particular oppo supporters that have told us and club to shut up about father son and academies and to use the avenues available. Now they will complain about us doing just that

 

[Circus]

I absolutely love JSOS coming to us. As Sully said earlier, he's smart footballer. To me he's the type of heart and soul player that suits our historic playing ethos. He'll look fantastic in our colours and our fans will love him.

My brother is a Blues fan, made his mistake as a little boy, and this season is the first time he's conceded they're completely cooked. I have long told him that if we couldn't get Cripps or Weitering JSOS was the Carlton player I wanted at the Saints.

Just waiting for his phone call. No text message either so far. It's going to be a very amusing conversation, from me at least!!

 

[Saint12]

Just so you know I flipping hate Collingwood with a passion and hope you go out in straight sets. But thank you for the kind words about us, much appreciated.

BigFooty Collingwood supporters are pretty good as a rule...actually wouldn't mind seeing them win it this year given all the other choices.

 

[Banger9798]

A solid finals side needs to be a B average and have the bulk of players 100 games and over.

Elite- Nas
A grade- Wilkie, Marshall, Sinclair, Hall
Potential A grade next year- King, Snags, Windhager, Owens, TDK, Flanders.
B grade- Ryan, Steele, Macrae, Wilson, Phillipou, Wood, Sharman, Hill, Howard, Silvagni, TDK, King, Snags, Windhager, Owens.
C graders- Stocker, Henry, Garcia, Tauru, Boxshall.

Games played needs adding to but there is a pretty serious nucleus there. Interesting that Draft Guru has us pretty high on the gradings but Nas classed as B+ and Hall still on D grade. We should have a list any least at Hawks level and no excuses.

AFL Club Lists for 2025 - Draftguru

www.draftguru.com.au

Personally , I have snags as an A grader. Should have been in AA squad

 

[jwikked]

For the bloose fans, Maybe the club can introduce a 1 game membership for 1 week to celebrate number 1 signing on.

This post reminded me of when they cancelled their SEN Membership Day because they got beaten by Richmond

 

[Broski]

Really don't know what you are complaining about, you got Parish, Jackson Bird AND Gresham from the Carlisle trade.
That Dodoro always won a trade.

That’s why got the ass. Why was he trading for a fringe Australian test pacer? lol

 

[Saint12]

Might be a mass exodus with delistings to make room for new players.

Reckon it will be a few players we won't really miss...Byrnes, Clark, McCrae?,Steele?

 

[thekizzler]

You would hope there are minimum game clauses in his contract... but lets hope he can have an injury free run at it. The same as Hunter Clark if he remains on the list.

Hunter Clark is signed until the end of 2027, chief.

Your whipping boy is going nowhere.

Every good team needs versatile soldiers on not much money.

Clark fits that bill as a midfielder and as a flanker.

If he ends up not getting selected at points over the next two years, then we are in excellent shape.

 

[Saint12]

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[Dr Spaceman]

.... we've lost Windy ?