List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
​

 

[The Boar]

What Pick/s are Windhager + Heath worth in a trade to Melbourne?

 

[Lennylegs]

I hope the club seriously rethinks it's offer to Windy and ups it if we can. Look at what Oisin Mullin did to McCluggage the other night. And O'Connor on Raynor.

You need players who can do a job for you. Take away an opposition's strength. You need that balance through your midfield.

Totally bizarre to me that he'd wanna go to Melbourne. That place is a bigger mess than Carlton and Essendon. Worst club culture in the comp.

 

[Sully111]

I think it would be a big mistake to lose Windy

But I'm not listening to a thing these dickheads say. I'll believe it if it's announced.

 

[mad-saint-guy]

This doesn’t really make sense.

If he goes to another club, he is behind existing rucks anyway.

If we don’t sign TDK it doesn’t really alter the fact that Dodson is OOC next year regardless. So it still doesn’t prevent a move.

You don't see a difference between being able to take over the reigns from Marshall in a few years vs having to wait 9 years to take over from TDK?

Looks like Windy is the first that we'll lose due to these reckless contracts we're throwing at B/C grade mature recruits. There will be plenty more, and I'm sure that Dodson will be one of them (unless we end up palming off TDK and paying 500k of his salary)

 

[WhiskySaint]

So I’ve got a theory….
We’re all in on Butters. If he’s leaving next year port would be mad not to trade him this year.
Clubs been tight lipped on other happenings.
Mistry Mid should be Butters, would be a perfect fit for us.

 

[BrutThough]

I will be disappointed to lose Windy but it's not that big of a shock. It shouldn't be a surprise anyone uncontracted at this time of the year would leave.

It's not a coincidence that Windy is rarely mentioned when Ross mentions our young players.

Wilson will take his spot on the wing next year with Wood/Hill on the other while we develop up a young player (potentially CMac?). NWM, Pou, Hugo, Box in the middle with Flanders coming in and Hall rotating plus Steele+Macrae still hanging around. Maybe Owens finally gets a midfield preseason we have all dreamed about.

We will be fine. Let's just take Melbourne to the cleaners and get overs in the trade.

 

[SaintsofSteel]

Melbourne have obviously offerred Windy a big $$$ offer, but gees I'll be shattered if he choses to leave. Windy played his best footy on the wing and in tagging roles thoughout the year and I cant believe he would leave because of positional issues. A number of posters have mentioned throughout the year that Lyon doesnt rate him and if that is the case Ross is very very wrong.

For me it will be a list management disaster if the club lose an NGA kid still yet to play his best footy. Windy has been on the list for 4-5 years and still has a heap of development in front of him, lets hope we can turn things around and get him signed.

Our list and club culture simply cant afford to lose quality players like Battle and Windhager year after year!

 

[Pardon me]

I’ll never begrudge any athlete going after extra money.
In what is an incredibly small window of opportunity to set themselves up for life and with high potential for destroying their bodies in the process - doing what’s best financially for them and their families is paramount.
We all love the romance of players being one club and carrying a number to legend status but at the end of the day it’s a business.

So with that in mind, how does the club extract maximum value for Windy?

If his mind is made up and the decision is to leave our club then the discussion turns to how can we maximize the choice.

My preference of course is that he stays because I see huge upside with his on and off field skills and leadership.

If the choice is Melb as reported (not sure a smart bloke would make this choice at present but it’s as being reported by one source) can we pride CMac from the hawks with a Trac 3 part trade?

 

[bird_man]

I will be disappointed to lose Windy but it's not that big of a shock. It shouldn't be a surprise anyone uncontracted at this time of the year would leave.

It's not a coincidence that Windy is rarely mentioned when Ross mentions our young players.

Wilson will take his spot on the wing next year with Wood/Hill on the other while we develop up a young player (potentially CMac?). NWM, Pou, Hugo, Box in the middle with Flanders coming in and Hall rotating plus Steele+Macrae still hanging around. Maybe Owens finally gets a midfield preseason we have all dreamed about.

We will be fine. Let's just take Melbourne to the cleaners and get overs in the trade.

I can't see the positive side to it. 5 years of development and has been one of our best young performers. He can play defensive and offensive roles and can play both inside and outside.

These guys don't grow on trees IMO.

 

[saintskit]

I think we will regret losing windy. Would much prefer to spend Ryan and Aleers cash on him.

We not good enough to lose the players we have; Battle, long and now Windy (if he goes)

 

[stavro#4]

Does anyone else think this is just the latest move by Windys agent to settle on a high price?
The words "Saints will have to move heaven and earth" are doing extremely heavy lifting and I guarantee you they are carefully chosen words.

The subtext just seems to be "meet our price"
Finey's just another mouthpiece

Finey is more a club mouthpiece if anything. Not a player one.

I hope the club seriously rethinks it's offer to Windy and ups it if we can. Look at what Oisin Mullin did to McCluggage the other night. And O'Connor on Raynor.

You need players who can do a job for you. Take away an opposition's strength. You need that balance through your midfield.

Totally bizarre to me that he'd wanna go to Melbourne. That place is a bigger mess than Carlton and Essendon. Worst club culture in the comp.

How much do you think O’Connor or Mullin are paid?

That’s why they are performing tagging roles.

Not for the 800+k on the table windy sounds like he is taking.

 

[dudeintheswamp]

With talk of our interest in Cmac, and ignoring the trade cost for a moment, what sort of wage would we be offering him? If there's talk of a (late) first round pick involved you'd think the wage would be significant. We'll never know but it'd be interesting to compare what we'd be offering him versus our offer to Windy.

 

[stavro#4]

Not necessarily. The two Adelaide clubs are the biggest worry for mine, because they’re both likely to be in the market for a ruck in a big way (Adelaide if they miss out on Draper this year, and with ROB another year older, and Port I imagine will come for him in a huge way next year, and possibly even promise him their no.1 ruck role from R1 2027), especially given he’s from Adelaide.


It doesn’t alter the fact he’s OOC next year, but if he’s only behind Ro, then there’s a clear and obvious path for him to the no.1 ruck role, given Ro’s age, whereas if we sign TDK on monster money for 8 years, and he’s useless anywhere but ruck, where is the clear path to the no.1 ruck role that Dod would surely be after?

He’s got a short window of opportunity to make millions of dollars from either a football or basketball career over the next 15 years, so I doubt he’s going to like the idea of being behind TDK for up to 8 years of it.

It would be like if you’re a young, super-talented apprentice at a company and there’s one role you’re training for and want, and the company then goes out and head-hunts someone else on a huge contract to fill that role for the next 8 years.

What are you going to do when other companies (from your home town no less) start offering you a clear position in the role you want, as soon as immediately, and for a lot more money than the company you’re at is offering you to stay as an apprentice, or backup?

I imagine most young people these days in particular wouldn’t have to think too hard about that. They want it all, and they want it now.

He has played 1 game. If clubs are willing to throw the chequebook and give him the #1 ruck mantle at 20.

So be it.

I personally don’t think it will play out the way you are concerned. But simultaneously I’m not Promising him anything. Needs to be earnt.

 

[bird_man]

What Pick/s are Windhager + Heath worth in a trade to Melbourne?

Windy = late first
Heath = 4th rounder

 

[BrutThough]

I can't see the positive side to it. 5 years of development and has been one of our best young performers. He can play defensive and offensive roles and can play both inside and outside.

These guys don't grow on trees IMO.

Do we think Windy will ever be an A grader? I'm guessing list management dont think so based on rumours and what our initial offer had been. So if we think he is just a B grader, then his type does grow on trees.

As much as people are emotionally invested in him. He's replaceable so if somewhere else is offering him a better deal, so be it. That's how the system works. Not every player is worth breaking the bank to keep.

 

[L_W_P]

Witt’s tonight.

21 disposals 15 contested
99 ruck contests 44 hitouts
8 clearances
4 score involvements
7 pressure acts.

Mammoth.

Guess we all see rucks differently. But when they are dominant. They are so valuable

Mammoth?

Witts last night:
6 kicks, 15 handballs
57% disposal efficiency

44 Hitouts, 8 to advantage
That's 18%

Sean Darcy:
12 touches @ 42%
29 HOs, 11 to Adv = 38%

Luke Jackson:
18 touches @ 67% + a goal
12HO, 3 to Adv = 25%

Witts would be well down on the list of reasons the Suns won that game IMO. He was fine as a link up handball option but he wasn't feeding his players from the stoppage. They had to go and do that work themselves.

Marshall's best work isn't in the ruck contest. It's his ability to link up around the ground as a midfielder.

If the Cats value that, and want the flexibility it gives them with Blicavs & SDK, cool. I'm just not getting amped up that we will cash in with a great deal when recent history shows that you don't need a gun in the ruck to win a flag.

 

[bird_man]

Do we think Windy will ever be an A grader? I'm guessing list management dont think so based on rumours and what our initial offer had been. So if we think he is just a B grader, then his type does grow on trees.

As much as people are emotionally invested in him. He's replaceable so if somewhere else is offering him a better deal, so be it. That's how the system works. Not every player is worth breaking the bank to keep.

I definitely think he can be an A grader

Even if not, they don't grow on trees. Players that can play multiple roles both defensively and offensively aren't actually easy to find and easily replaceable.

I doubt too many on here would have even brought up the option of trading him prior to the reports coming out.

 

[stavro#4]

Mammoth?

Witts last night:
6 kicks, 15 handballs
57% disposal efficiency

44 Hitouts, 8 to advantage
That's 18%

Sean Darcy:
12 touches @ 42%
29 HOs, 11 to Adv = 38%

Luke Jackson:
18 touches @ 67% + a goal
12HO, 3 to Adv = 25%

Witts would be well down on the list of reasons the Suns won that game IMO. He was fine as a link up handball option but he wasn't feeding his players from the stoppage. They had to go and do that work themselves.

Marshall's best work isn't in the ruck contest. It's his ability to link up around the ground as a midfielder.

If the Cats value that, and want the flexibility it gives them with Blicavs & SDK, cool. I'm just not getting amped up that we will cash in with a great deal when recent history shows that you don't need a gun in the ruck to win a flag.

He rucked against both of Darcy and Jackson all night and they had no impact. Infact the only time Jackson was threatening was when he went deep forward.

Witt’s had more Clearances than both combined.

 

[gringo2011]

I can't see the positive side to it. 5 years of development and has been one of our best young performers. He can play defensive and offensive roles and can play both inside and outside.

These guys don't grow on trees IMO.

Yep, this undoes a lot of the positivity built up recently. It's a step backwards. It's not like we are replacing him with an upgrade at this point.

We don't need a draft pick in a shit draft, we need players that get us playing finals in the next 2 years. We just never seem to get to ahead.

 

[stavro#4]

I definitely think he can be an A grader

Even if not, they don't grow on trees. Players that can play multiple roles both defensively and offensively aren't actually easy to find and easily replaceable.

I doubt too many on here would have even brought up the option of trading him prior to the reports coming out.

Not an A grader.

Very good 2 way runner.

Absolutely butchers the ball.

 

[stavro#4]

Yep, this undoes a lot of the positivity built up recently. It's a step backwards. It's not like we are replacing him with an upgrade at this point.

We don't need a draft pick in a shit draft, we need players that get us playing finals in the next 2 years. We just never seem to get to ahead.

Wouldn’t it be a future first? Dees don’t have a pick.

 

[bird_man]

Not an A grader.

Very good 2 way runner.

Absolutely butchers the ball.

I didn't suggest he was an A grader. I said he could be.

 

[BrutThough]

I definitely think he can be an A grader

Even if not, they don't grow on trees. Players that can play multiple roles both defensively and offensively aren't actually easy to find and easily replaceable.

I doubt too many on here would have even brought up the option of trading him prior to the reports coming out.

The tagging aspects is hard to replace but when he wasn't tagging, we were playing him on the wing and at half back which are easier roles to fill.

It sucks to lose him but it's not the end of the world. We've got mids on the list already who can play the positions he was playing.

 

[stavro#4]

I didn't suggest he was an A grader. I said he could be.

I was suggesting he wouldn’t ever be.

 

[gringo2011]

Do we think Windy will ever be an A grader? I'm guessing list management dont think so based on rumours and what our initial offer had been. So if we think he is just a B grader, then his type does grow on trees.

As much as people are emotionally invested in him. He's replaceable so if somewhere else is offering him a better deal, so be it. That's how the system works. Not every player is worth breaking the bank to keep.

He's the only youth player besides Nas that is own track at this point. He's the type that does a lot of the hard work. Look at Nas's highlights and a lot of his best work was set up from Windy getting his hands dirty.

I reckon we'll regret this badly. Windy could be A grade next year for sure. SOS and Lyon need to perform next year or they should both be under pressure. We have loaded up for a run and are losing players as they overpay to get older B graders.