List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
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[Joffaboy]

Because they tried to off load him for picks then realised how hard it is to replace him.

So they did want him. Ok thanks.

 

[StCicatriz]

Regardless, it is not true we didn't want Battle, the $$$ showed we did.
Anyway JSOS and Tauru gor Battle is a win in my book.

battle was already gone by the time we upped the offer.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

genie was out of the bottle at that point. i think earlier in the season it was attractive to lose him given the pick. then later in the season it was more attactive to keep him. but he had already agreed to hawthorn by then.

Reckon he was always going to Hawthorn as his wife’s +1

 

[SaintsofSteel]

You reckon Windy equates to NAZ. Really lol.
As funny as Windy is a better winger than Hill.
Sorry if your opinion doesn't change my mind. So ridiculous.

Hill is 32 yo he won't be still playing when and if we challenge. IMO he was lucky to hold his spot in the side throughout this year. He is not the future he is cooked, he'll be lucky to play another year out. The speed and contested side of the game has exposed his significant weaknesses.

Moving forward Windy has a lot more games ahead than Brad. I don't expect to change your opinion, no one has that honour on here. The only thing ridiculous is the sarcasm you hide behind.

 

[Joffaboy]

hill might not be best 22 next year. he had been moved to the HFF. i think it's possible that a fit and firing liam henry could take his role.

Not against players being moved on if they aren't good enough, however he is still the best runner in the club. If Henry can take his place I am all for it, same with if Wilson can take Woods place.

It's great we have competition for spots, means the listbis getting better. I am sure we are all sick of being 9th to 13th every year.

 

[StCicatriz]

Not against players being moved on if they aren't good enough, however he is still the best runner in the club. If Henry can take his place I am all for it, same with if Wilson can take Woods place.

It's great we have competition for spots, means the listbis getting better. I am sure we are all sick of being 9th to 13th every year.

Hill isnt the best runner at the club. that baton handed over a while back.

we aren't an athletics club. he needs to be able to perform on game day that means getting disposals and providing offensive chains.

 

[stavro#4]

Regardless, it is not true we didn't want Battle, the $$$ showed we did.
Anyway JSOS and Tauru gor Battle is a win in my book.

They were happy to offer Battle what they saw fit - because they had the band 1 compo to fall back on.

 

[gringo2011]

What do you think Windhager's ceiling is, and how does he get there?

I reckon he could be an A grader next year. Ideally as wingman who has runs on ball, tags when needed etc. He's our most advanced youth player after Nas.

 

[gringo2011]

So they did want him. Ok thanks.

After shopping him earlier and getting caught out being machiavellian.

 

[Joffaboy]

battle was already gone by the time we upped the offer.

Fact remains we offered more so we wanted him. You stated we didn't want him which was factually incorrect.
Anyway the club was convinced he was staying, he even indicated to Lyon the day before.

 

[SaintsofSteel]

We aren't prepared to pay an NGA kid because he lacks the perfect game. Which his turnover stats are no worse than other highly rated players.

The club believes we need sharp ball users which is true, but why then did we recruit 3 x kids in a strong draft last year whose kicking skills are below average. Perhaps they believe/hope the can improve - which is hypercritical.

 

[SaintersUnite]

I reckon he could be an A grader next year. Ideally as wingman who has runs on ball, tags when needed etc. He's our most advanced youth player after Nas.

I sometimes legitimately think your account is ran by two people Gringo. One day a happy opportunist has it, the next the pessimistic man with amazingly witty metaphors.

 

[gringo2011]

You know this isn’t true and you know you are just trying to stir trouble.

Facts are that in the first half of the season. He was immense.

He had more coaches votes in the first half of this year than Marshall had all season.

Stats are here. No need for anyone to dispute it. Marshall got to more ruck contests across the year than TDK. But TDK tracked very similarly to Cameron at the pies. But TDK had a better hit to advantage than both.

Infact his hit to advantage % is better than any ruck over 10 games this year.

TDK in isolation

AFL Match Stats

AFL Match Stats

www.wheeloratings.com

He's played half a dozen exceptional games a year a few years in a row. He has also played as many bad ones most seasons. His potential is huge still but you are paying him on the output that he hasn't achieved yet.

 

[Joffaboy]

After shopping him earlier and getting caught out being machiavellian.

So they offered more money so they wanted him to stay?
The point is it is factually incorrect to say we didn't want him to stay, you don't offer more money if you want him to leave.

However it sounds we are offering less foemr Windy so maybe we don't want him to stay, which I find curious.

 

[gringo2011]

We aren't prepared to pay an NGA kid because he lacks the perfect game. Which his turnover stats are no worse than other highly rated players.

The club believes we need sharp ball users which is true, but why then did we recruit 3 x kids in a strong draft last year whose kicking skills are below average. Perhaps they believe/hope the can improve - which is hypercritical.

Better disposal efficiency than guys like Petracca. He's had a few poor kicking games but if you watch Nas highlights you can't believe how much of his magic is generated by something hard working that Windhager has crashed in to win then deftly hand passed it out to him running past.

I reckon we'll end up realising what we had once he's gone.

 

[Hayes4PM]

I'm sure we can work out a fair trade with the Dees. How about up and coming superstar Marcus Windhager as well as Max Heath as a possible Gawn replacement for a young unproven talent such as sayyyyy, ohhhh, Harvey Langford?

 

[stavro#4]

He's played half a dozen exceptional games a year a few years in a row. He has also played as many bad ones most seasons. His potential is huge still but you are paying him on the output that he hasn't achieved yet.

You want us to do the same thing with Windhager.

We do know that TDK can play exceptional football as a #1 ruck. The stats and coaches votes support the eye test.

 

[gringo2011]

So they offered more money so they wanted him to stay?
The point is it is factually incorrect to say we didn't want him to stay, you don't offer more money if you want him to leave.

However it sounds we are offering less foemr Windy so maybe we don't want him to stay, which I find curious.

So then they really stuffed it up.

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

****ing hell, when did Jack Silvagni become a star and people will buy memberships to go and watch him?

The new Silvagni dynasty
They will come
Or at least he's going to piss off Carlton supporters
That will be worth the admission fee to see.
And where did l say he was a star?

 

[akaifu]

Marshall looks like he lost his spot to TDK as first ruck. We really don't need two first rucks and I'm not sure we get the best value for money if he stays. I can see him moving and us not being any worse off but we do move sideways and slightly up with TDK's tap work maybe.

Windhager seems absolutely negligent list management. He looks like a natural replacement for Hill on a wing and even as a true inside mid rotation but even just for his pure adaptability he seems to be a massive need. Those outside types are actually harder to find than inside mids for most clubs. We are unique in our inability to find inside ball winners.

We would be a thinner list with a weaker midfield next year after seeming to be topping up for a challenge. It makes zero sense to thin out as you top up. We might get Flanders and or Cmac but neither of them are proven midfielders yet.

And culturally it looks horrible on top of thinning out the exact age bracket we are thinnest in. Same as losing Battle it hit directly in the spot we can least afford to lose players from. We are not meant to be in perpetual rebuild if we are topping up.

Yes I agree that Windy is a long -term winger, I've been on this train since pre-season

But I'm pretty sure no wingers in the comp are being paid 800k/year except maybe Josh Daicos - who not only is now a top-line versatile half back, but is pretty much Windy except of a quality that wins a B&F in a premiership year ahead of Brownlow contender Nick Daicos. I have no clue what Jarrod Berry is on but as a premiership wingman, he wouldn't be on much more than 700k maybe?

My point isn't that Windy doesn't have a place in the 23. My point is that he's not worth 800k when we have Boxshall/Trav/Hastie/LOC coming through

 

[gringo2011]

You want us to do the same thing with Windhager.

We do know that TDK can play exceptional football as a #1 ruck. The stats and coaches votes support the eye test.

He's not going to be the second highest paid player in history though is he. We are talking maybe $600k over 4 years extra over his value. We don't have to match other offers but we have to be in the conversation. We burly the water then complain when existing players think that C graders on more than they are isn't fair.

 

[Joffaboy]

He's played half a dozen exceptional games a year a few years in a row. He has also played as many bad ones most seasons. His potential is huge still but you are paying him on the output that he hasn't achieved yet.

Would have preferred OCallaghan, or Merrett, or LDU, or Kelly or DeGoey but none wanted to come to the club.
We had to pay to get a player ( and nobody really knows what he is being paid but have been PM'ed that it works out to 1.4 a year if he doesn't get injured or stinks it up).
First we re-signed NAZ, that helped attract two FA's, therefore no draft capital, no Ryan wants to come and we don't know who else.
We need to retool and get into finals. Once that happens the place becomes more attractive for established players.

We had to try and realign the perception of the club.
Now on the coming season we need to improve on field.

 

[Ads734]

The head jumping next year is going to be elite with Ryan, De Koning, Tauru, Owens, Keeler, Collard, Nas. Even Hastie took a screamer this year

Don’t forget cooper

 

[stavro#4]

He's not going to be the second highest paid player in history though is he. We are talking maybe $600k over 4 years extra over his value. We don't have to match other offers but we have to be in the conversation. We burly the water then complain when existing players think that C graders on more than they are isn't fair.

So in short. Because you like the player you can justify the amount.

 

[gringo2011]

Yes I agree that Windy is a long -term winger, I've been on this train since pre-season

But I'm pretty sure no wingers in the comp are being paid 800k/year except maybe Josh Daicos - who not only is now a top-line versatile half back, but is pretty much Windy except of a quality that wins a B&F in a premiership year ahead of Brownlow contender Nick Daicos. I have no clue what Jarrod Berry is on but as a premiership wingman, he wouldn't be on much more than 700k maybe?

My point isn't that Windy doesn't have a place in the 23. My point is that he's not worth 800k when we have Boxshall/Trav/Hastie/LOC coming through

None of those guys have even been consistent best 22 yet. I thought we had three trillion dollars of cap space anyway? The cap going up has added a couple of hundred grand to all new contracts it seems. It's not going backwards any time soon. Statistically only about 20 of players even play 100 games or something. There is no guarantee that any will be stars and probably take 3 more years to get to Windy level anyway.