List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
​

 

[CanadianSaint]

On Windy, and I apologise if this has been suggested. I dont want him to leave, I thought he was better this year that a lot of people acknowledged. But if he does go, does this open the doors for a 3 way trade with Melbourne and Hawthorne.
ie:
Hawks get: Petracca, and give: Cam Mc, a first (next year) or second...
St kilda get Cam Mc, and give: Windy.
Melbourne get: Windy plus a first/second, and give: Petracca

Is Cam Mc's ceiling higher than Windy's?

 

[BarkerFan]

Re- this Windy stuff. look, I like the kid. I really do...but i see Wilson as a better long term wingman, travaglia as a better long term half back/mid. boxshall and Garcia as better inside mids...if there is genuinely one player that has currency to be traded, it's him

in fact, boxshall can also play wing, is a better kick, better mark, better tackler and has more pace

Windy is a fair way ahead of all of those players in all of those roles. Hopefully they all continue to improve but we can't rely on it.

Windy very under rated on here. Will be very bad if we lose him

 

[Kildonan]

Wait

Tauru equalled a St Kilda record 14 spoils in his 2nd game, and we're all rightfully raving about him.....

And now we're talking about moving him out of the backline to accommodate Leek Aleer on another big contract?

This is what the club did with Nic Riewoldt, played him first year in defence then expanded his roles eventually settling him CHF (the position where we currently have a gaping hole).

 

[mad-saint-guy]

Some supporters on here would complain if Byrnes left to another club

There's a massive, massive gap between Windy and Byrnes. I'd complain if we give Byrnes another contract

 

[g_TRAIN]

Billings never improved after 22 .... Gresham never did .... plenty peak young and never kick on

Yeah but that's not normal right.

They actually went backwards.

 

[SaintJunior]

Ignore the stupid comparison Morris made and just enjoy listening to Hird & Bartel spit facts

Was funny to watch Morris almost barracking for it to fail only for Hird and Bartel and discuss the facts.

 

[sammm]

Was playing sore for most the year.
I understand people thinking we should trade him, and or move past him as captain etc. but we still need mids. We've potentially got good kids coming through, but they still need time and a buffer.
Steele is not what he was, but he can still pinch up forward and rotate with a guy like Pou.

Why was Steele playing sore? He should have been rested.

Booom

Why do we want Liam?

 

[Klaatu]

Was funny to watch Morris almost barracking for it to fail only for Hird and Bartel and discuss the facts.

Morris did not mention Melbourne doing the same with May, Lever, Melksham, Ben Brown & Hibbert from Essendon

 

[dudeintheswamp]

Oh no we have a Leek

A leek goes well with a spud

 

[gringo2011]

Pretty sure they would’ve foreseen improvement.
But to that extent, and so quickly, maybe not.
And nor would any other club have.

That is literally their job. I don't know what they were looking at. I could see that he was going to be an absolute superstar from outside. Their internal talent identification is poor if they didn't see it.

We heard all the same excuses with Battle and Long. For a club that struggles to attract talent and has to over pay to get them in, we can't afford to leak talent out.

 

[gringo2011]

On Windy, and I apologise if this has been suggested. I dont want him to leave, I thought he was better this year that a lot of people acknowledged. But if he does go, does this open the doors for a 3 way trade with Melbourne and Hawthorne.
ie:
Hawks get: Petracca, and give: Cam Mc, a first (next year) or second...
St kilda get Cam Mc, and give: Windy.
Melbourne get: Windy plus a first/second, and give: Petracca

Is Cam Mc's ceiling higher than Windy's?

I don't think so. Windhager is probably a bit blue collar. CMac a bit vanilla. Probably just a younger player so maybe more ceiling?

To me the only way it makes sense is to save money and picks to get Walsh or Merrett. I think that it's absolutely stupid for the fabric of the club even. You don't mess around with culture. Especially bringing in a bulk players from a poor culture.

 

[Train12]

Morris did not mention Melbourne doing the same with May, Lever, Melksham, Ben Brown & Hibbert from Essendon

It’s also digging deeper - so many journos now offer opinions that are often incorrect.

They need to give it context.

Our delistings thus far
Webster over 30?
Cordy 30ish?
Boyd mid 20’s?

JSOS late 20’s
Ryan late 20’s?
TDK mid 20’s
Aleer - early 20’s?

Jones probably gets delisted - 30ish?
Marshall maybe goes - 30ish?
Potentially Steele ? - 30ish?

Every chance we are younger next year.

 

[CaptainRisky]

Only gringo2011

Really , There were plenty on here , some even so called experts of the game defending him when one particular person said he isn't up to it .

 

[phantom13]

Really , There were plenty on here , some even so called experts of the game defending him when one particular person said he isn't up to it .

I was joking.

Gring is a big Byrnes guy, in spite of all evidence being that hes AT BEST an honest battler

 

[phantom13]

On Windy, and I apologise if this has been suggested. I dont want him to leave, I thought he was better this year that a lot of people acknowledged. But if he does go, does this open the doors for a 3 way trade with Melbourne and Hawthorne.
ie:
Hawks get: Petracca, and give: Cam Mc, a first (next year) or second...
St kilda get Cam Mc, and give: Windy.
Melbourne get: Windy plus a first/second, and give: Petracca

Is Cam Mc's ceiling higher than Windy's?

Id rather keep windy but if hes gone this is making the best of that situation.

Feels like Hawks are paying over (based on Tracs output this year) and dees are getting slight overs but its not a bad shout i reckon.

 

[gringo2011]

Windy is a fair way ahead of all of those players in all of those roles. Hopefully they all continue to improve but we can't rely on it.

Windy very under rated on here. Will be very bad if we lose him

Statistically they don't all make it to a regular AFL players even. This is the same shit we heard with Dunstan, Acres and Billings. If we bring in bulk players, move on mates and underpay all our existing players, we run a very real risk of putting noses out of joint. If we stagnate or go backwards next year it would be absolutely disastrous.

The bulk list change has to show results for sacrifice or it will result in mass resentment. We only have 2 years until Nas is up again, a lot of our older talent is close to the end then and a huge amount of our player contracts finish up.

 

[gringo2011]

I was joking.

Gring is a big Byrnes guy, in spite of all evidence being that hes AT BEST an honest battler

I love Byrnes because he is a battler. I'm not going to claim he's quality. I just love the romance of a guy with limited skills and a huge heart. He is first out of the side when a better option comes up and realistically he is probably not on the list next year.

 

[bennymc7]

The windhager scenario is pretty simple imo..

Tangible performance, he's replaceable.. (travaglia, Wilson, Boxshall, Henry)

What we all love about him is the intangible stuff.. the effort, bleeds rwb and seems a leadership presence.

That's the part that's hard to quantify from a dollars perspective.

Hope he stays, won't be heartbroken if he decides his future is elsewhere

 

[gringo2011]

The windhager scenario is pretty simple imo..

Tangible performance, he's replaceable.. (travaglia, Wilson, Boxshall, Henry)

What we all love about him is the intangible stuff.. the effort, bleeds rwb and seems a leadership presence.

That's the part that's hard to quantify from a dollars perspective.

Hope he stays, won't be heartbroken if he decides his future is elsewhere

Fine but the club is held to account on the list that they have built. This has to get results and you can't come back next year and make the same excuses for them. They can't cry about not getting enough handouts when they can't even hold on to their own players.

 

[phantom13]

The windhager scenario is pretty simple imo..

Tangible performance, he's replaceable.. (travaglia, Wilson, Boxshall, Henry)

What we all love about him is the intangible stuff.. the effort, bleeds rwb and seems a leadership presence.

That's the part that's hard to quantify from a dollars perspective.

Hope he stays, won't be heartbroken if he decides his future is elsewhere

On current performance (over a season) none of those guys is giving Windys output. On potential maybe but this is the Battle thing again where we think we can cover.

In reality if he goes we need a ready made replacement and I suspect anyone we get for Windy is likely a downgrade.

The C-Mac/Windy/Trac scenario would be best case and C-Mac is still not at Windys numbers in any capacity.

We all whack him but gringo2011 s whole thing about moving guys out for sideways changes looks apt here.

 

[SaintsofSteel]

Being a crusted on Saints member/supporter for so long has moulded my loyalties to player/s I perceive as quality. Plus I hate losing decent players, but it is a very fluid industry now.

After giving the Windhager situation more thought, as much as I hate the idea of losing him because of $$$ or internal ratings. I guess we have to accept the club will make it work.

Trust is not something that comes easy when considering our history of recruiting, but apart from Battle I think SOS & the club have pulled the right levers in the past few years. Im still hoping we dont lose Windhager or Marshall, but I guess we have to trust the club will turn the trades into players of more long term value to the list.

The above shouldnt prevent people giving opinions on player movement eg I really dont rate Aleer and believe Ryan is cooked. But again hope the club know what they are doing.

 

[gringo2011]

Time to pull out Falchoon's patented ruck rankings based on 2025 stats.

Raw stats, criteria
16+ games
classification of ruck,
Centre bounce attendance > 60%

View attachment 2419618

Rankings with herbs and spices

View attachment 2419619

Who said he can't be A grade? He's a B grade ruck getting paid the second biggest contract for any player in history. He's not getting paid on potential. He could easily be the best ruck in footy if they change the rules to suit his skill set.

Windhager is also 4 years younger and showing potential to become A grade. He'd be on about $750k x 4 to stay at the Saints. TDK is still going to be on $1 million a year when his body is starting to break down in his mid thirties.

Windy at 4 years either goes up a level and demands more because he's a mid 20s A grade player or he gets less or moved on if he isn't. That's low risk IMO.

 

[gringo2011]

If it's effectively Flanders for Windy. Would you think that's an improvement to our midfield?

Not really. Flanders best footy so far is off HB. It's another sideways move for me but has cultural implications. Flanders and Windhager gives us depth of quality, we don't need more one in one out.

 

[DougalHoward]

 

[CaptainRisky]

Same morons said that Battle was the easiest player on the list to replace and that we wouldn't even notice. Most of them in a rage when they dared to make him AA. Your cognitive dissonance defies all evidence that we are competent at list management.

There are a lot that are quick to eat their own