Rumour Bluemour Discussion XXXIX

[swuzzlebubble]

Chesser.

He corrected himself since

 

[ctwenty1]

It will all really depend on where GW sees this list...

If the belief is there that they can go again next year at cracking top 4, then most certainly Charlie will be near untouchable at the trade table and it will take a Gulden or Butters for us to trade him.

But, given what we've already seen out the door this year, it looks like setting up for the future is the approach they'll take. This is where the talk of Walter + 6 makes more sense.

Not so sure about the ins, but certainly agree that if Carlton perception is this list isnt quite it, then a move of charlie (at the right price) should probabaly be expected

 

[Sector 7G]

I haven't seen enough of Walter admittedly, but he has looked more awkward off the deck than Curnow and doesn't look to have the same run and jump

I do agree with you though in general, I think it's a win

You would struggle to find a key forward that has done less in his 2nd year than Walter. 7 possessions 2.4 marks and 1.1 goals a game in a good side. May come good but it is a risk he is just not that good.

 

[Juddrockz]

Pick 6 and Walter would be one of the biggest trade hauls ever. Walter is a top tier talent, of similar worth to JJK when we moved him onto WCE for Judd. Young KPF of his ability don’t grow on trees. I see him as a Charlie clone but 8 years younger.

The problem with doing this deal is we are basically resigning ourselves to treading water or regressing in 2026, so the club need to assess whether the trade would be worth it based on that. We can potentially cover the loss of SOS and TDK but losing Charlie would be too much.

Bringing in Walter and letting Charlie go does what to the membership numbers?

 

[BlueLocke]

It will all really depend on where GW sees this list...

If the belief is there that they can go again next year at cracking top 4, then most certainly Charlie will be near untouchable at the trade table and it will take a Gulden or Butters for us to trade him.

But, given what we've already seen out the door this year, it looks like setting up for the future is the approach they'll take. This is where the talk of Walter + 6 makes more sense.

My hunch is that the focus has shifted to the future and we'll look to add as much young talent (either through the draft or targeting players in that 20-25 age bracket) as possible. With Dean, we have a KPD lined up, now just need a KPF...

Ties in with the post about GW being unimpressed with the 'yes' men culture; the list was overrated internally and will now need to be adjusted.

 

[gab213]

Maybe I'm being naive or bias, but my expectation is to still make the 8 next year while performing a little reset

While I would love that to be the case and I agree, it may be possible, I'm not setting it as an expectation only to feel let down again.

 

[teagueyubeauty]

Bringing in Walter and letting Charlie go does what to the membership numbers?

Who cares, winning a premiership will affect the numbers the most. We’ve had 10 years of Charlie and not any closer to one, we have compromised drafts coming up, lost a couple of players to free agency and Charlie likely done after this contract.

Some people need to understand the crux of this list as it stands is not getting us to the promised land

 

[gab213]

Bringing in Walter and letting Charlie go does what to the membership numbers?

I reckon it has zero impact.

 

[mochacinolatte]

Think Chesser is a good get. I seen some WCE and he has the talent with his speed and kicking skills. Just needs a good run at it.

 

[RPCB]

Conditional Charlie Curnow

30

Charlie Curnow

Age

28

Ht

194cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.3

3star

K

9.7

4star

HB

3.6

3star

M

5.3

5star

T

2.2

4star

G

1.3

5star

No current season stats available

D

10.8

3star

K

6.4

3star

HB

4.4

4star

M

3.2

4star

T

1.6

4star

G

0.8

4star

and 100,000 members? If trading him loses us some members, but we are better for it for a decade with who we bring in, then so be it.

 

[Dramoth]

I prefer Gruzewski's potential over Walter's.
He probably won't reach Charlie's 'ceiling', but looks more durable and reliable.
With Harry and HOK, do we need another lumbering KPF?

We've already secured Moir and Kemp as forward marking/tackling targets.

Harry is quick than people think and a very good tackler. HOK might be a little slower, but he can stick a tackle hard. And in a couple of years, HOK is going to be our #1 ruck.

 

[The Bighouse]

Bringing in Walter and letting Charlie go does what to the membership numbers?

Jed’s Juniors…?

 

[yibbida]

But, given what we've already seen out the door this year, it looks like setting up for the future is the approach they'll take

2 free agents left. 1 player retired. The others delisted had their contracts expire at the end of this season.

The only real surprise was Silvagni. The others would have been planned for already.

 

[DZ4]

Politefully agree to disagree.

Nowhere near one of the biggest trade deals ever.
And after reading Wiz’s recent post - Walter is a boom or bust player. Sounds super risky.
We’d want proven talent back for giving proven talent. IMO

Walter and pick 6 would be an incredible haul. It would certainly be up there as one of the biggest trades ever, which is what should be required to move Charlie on in our current position.

It’s all good wanting proven talent but no A grader is going to want to come to Catlton this off-season. Doesn’t mean we can’t benefit from the trade long term. I think we’d be silly not to consider such an offer.

 

[Wickzki]

I caught up with someone I’ve known for years through the Southport Sharks and later the Suns. He’s been heavily involved at both clubs, long before the Suns even entered the AFL, and has had a big influence on their clubs (has been a director, etc.). His take on where the Suns are at right now was interesting.

He thinks Jed Walter is gettable for the right player. I’ve often thought of Walter as the face of their academy system, but he doesn’t see it that way. The Suns don’t rely on one poster boy anymore. In his view, Ethan Read is the standout. He ticks all of Damien Hardwick’s non-negotiables and is the one they rate the highest.

The Suns are confident they’ll hang on to their core, including Ben King, for the long term. That belief, combined with Read’s development, means they could consider moving Walter. The feeling is they can’t play Walter, Read and King together in the same side. He thinks a more mobile forward would suit their balance better. Walter might be the piece that gets them that.

Walter himself is seen as a boom-or-bust type. His ceiling is very high but the floor is just as low. He’ll need the right coaching to get there and there are concerns he’s a bit more conditional than they’d like, especially compared with Read who they see as the much safer bet.

He feels that Flanders disappears out of games far too often. Can rack up possessions in a hurry but in-game consistency is a significant issue. A Walter, Flanders and picks (not 2025 as they need them) would make sense for the Suns but probably doesn't get them Curnow unless it's the most we're offered. Thinks Carlton stand firm unless we get presented overs although he suggests it might be in our best interests to take the best offer available especially if it has someone like Jed or another high-level prospect in it.

He isn’t convinced on Charlie because of the injury history and his age, although he understands why the fit makes sense

Looking at Carlton from the outside, he reckons Graham Wright is held in very high regard and feels that we'll become a juggernaut with him in three to five years. He wasn’t surprised Michael Voss was retained either. His take was that the coaching market this year was thin and the chance to make a change was 12 months ago, but we couldn’t sack Voss after last season. He thinks we need a change in list management and recruiting. He is stunned we're locking up borderline best 22 talent for multiple seasons and thinks no other club would be signing those contracts.

Sorry skadoosh I don't think there's anything here "rumour" worthy for the no discussion thread. Another perspective valid for a post though

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

I prefer Gruzewski's potential over Walter's.
He probably won't reach Charlie's 'ceiling', but looks more durable and reliable.
With Harry and HOK, do we need another lumbering KPF?

We've already secured Moir and Kemp as forward marking/tackling targets.

I agree....and we wouldn't have to give up Charlie to get Gruzewski. Possible trade of first round picks with some steak knives gets it done.

A forward half consisting of Charlie, Harry, Gruzewski, Zaccy and Ashton suddenly has a bit of fire power. Throw a fit Kemp in as well for a bit of fun. Just need to get the other smalls to start firing.

Having said all that crap, I tend to think we'll be focussing on Khamis rather than Gruzewski as the 3rd marking forward. Cheaper option.

 

[Michael Jezz]

I think you either get Father/Sons or an academy,not both. So under this system, Brisbane would miss on the Ashcrofts & Sydney, Blakey, due to the fact they have an academy. The Melbourne clubs keep the father sons with the current shallow discount.
The other move required is to remove the academies for clubs that have been in the competition for 40 years
Therefore Sydney and Brisbane lose their acadmies. Academies would still develop in Qld and NSW by Gold Coast an GWS
If the effect of only one academy gave GWS and Gold Coast a virtual state mortgage then limit the picks to 1 or 2 per year.

Free Agency needs to be reviewed that it is only accessible to bottom 6 or 8 clubs. The current situation where top 4 clubs access 80% of the free agents must be curtailed

 

[TheThunderboltKid]

I caught up with someone I’ve known for years through the Southport Sharks and later the Suns. He’s been heavily involved at both clubs, long before the Suns even entered the AFL, and has had a big influence on their clubs (has been a director, etc.). His take on where the Suns are at right now was interesting.

He thinks Jed Walter is gettable for the right player. I’ve often thought of Walter as the face of their academy system, but he doesn’t see it that way. The Suns don’t rely on one poster boy anymore. In his view, Ethan Read is the standout. He ticks all of Damien Hardwick’s non-negotiables and is the one they rate the highest.

The Suns are confident they’ll hang on to their core, including Ben King, for the long term. That belief, combined with Read’s development, means they could consider moving Walter. The feeling is they can’t play Walter, Read and King together in the same side. He thinks a more mobile forward would suit their balance better. Walter might be the piece that gets them that.

Walter himself is seen as a boom-or-bust type. His ceiling is very high but the floor is just as low. He’ll need the right coaching to get there and there are concerns he’s a bit more conditional than they’d like, especially compared with Read who they see as the much safer bet.

He feels that Flanders disappears out of games far too often. Can rack up possessions in a hurry but in-game consistency is a significant issue. A Walter, Flanders and picks (not 2025 as they need them) would make sense for the Suns but probably doesn't get them Curnow unless it's the most we're offered. Thinks Carlton stand firm unless we get presented overs although he suggests it might be in our best interests to take the best offer available especially if it has someone like Jed or another high-level prospect in it.

He isn’t convinced on Charlie because of the injury history and his age, although he understands why the fit makes sense

Looking at Carlton from the outside, he reckons Graham Wright is held in very high regard and feels that we'll become a juggernaut with him in three to five years. He wasn’t surprised Michael Voss was retained either. His take was that the coaching market this year was thin and the chance to make a change was 12 months ago, but we couldn’t sack Voss after last season. He thinks we need a change in list management and recruiting. He is stunned we're locking up borderline best 22 talent for multiple seasons and thinks no other club would be signing those contracts.

e: I don't think there's anything here "rumour" worthy for the no discussion thread. Another perspective valid for a post though

Not sure if anyone involved in the Suns since their beginning is in much of a position to throw stones about list management.

 

[muzza99]

You would struggle to find a key forward that has done less in his 2nd year than Walter. 7 possessions 2.4 marks and 1.1 goals a game in a good side. May come good but it is a risk he is just not that good.

But he will be getting it lace out from our mids....he will do just fine

 

[Wickzki]

Not sure if anyone involved in the Suns since their beginning is in much of a position to throw stones about list management.

He was heavily involved (director) in the Sharks throughout their foundation years so any say he had at GCS was minimal at the time.

One of those who journos and stuff have cited as a "why didn't the AFL just use Southport Sharks as the basis for the Suns?"

 

[Michael Jezz]

Chesser.

Chesser is a low risk higher return play. I don't mind having a throw at the stumps for a kid who has some talent

 

[fmurphy30]

If trading with GC is real, Walter would have to be the cornerstone of that. I don't think GC see him as no good, they are spoilt with an embarrassment of riches.

Getting Charlie will be amazing for their marketing. He will be POD forward and put bums on seats. They should see themselves as in the premiership window now. Getting Charlie is being aggressive and chasing it.

What should it cost? As I said, Walter is a no brainer. H becomes the main forward and Walter the understudy.

But Walter will be on minimum wage and GC need to clear some salary cap. Sam Flanders becomes expendable. He'd be on $500-600k at least. It clears the decks and allows room for Charlie.

Then we want a pick. Next year's first is the best bet. We need points for Walker. They need points for academy kids this year.

Honestly, most of the industry will think we're making out like bandits. Some here will whinge but I think we'd be doing well. Investment in the future and the now.

 

[Wickzki]

Chesser is a low risk higher return play. I don't mind having a throw at the stumps for a kid who has some talent

I agree but it depends on the price we're paying.

Out of contract but I suspect the Eagles asking price will likely be high. Not a player they want to lose.

Going to be an interesting trade.

 

[Own The Future]

Now that GWS are out, any whispers of a link to Gruzewski? What is his contract status?
Assuming he - like apparently everyone - will be linked to StK…

 

[Opium]

I caught up with someone I’ve known for years through the Southport Sharks and later the Suns. He’s been heavily involved at both clubs, long before the Suns even entered the AFL, and has had a big influence on their clubs (has been a director, etc.). His take on where the Suns are at right now was interesting.

He thinks Jed Walter is gettable for the right player. I’ve often thought of Walter as the face of their academy system, but he doesn’t see it that way. The Suns don’t rely on one poster boy anymore. In his view, Ethan Read is the standout. He ticks all of Damien Hardwick’s non-negotiables and is the one they rate the highest.

The Suns are confident they’ll hang on to their core, including Ben King, for the long term. That belief, combined with Read’s development, means they could consider moving Walter. The feeling is they can’t play Walter, Read and King together in the same side. He thinks a more mobile forward would suit their balance better. Walter might be the piece that gets them that.

Walter himself is seen as a boom-or-bust type. His ceiling is very high but the floor is just as low. He’ll need the right coaching to get there and there are concerns he’s a bit more conditional than they’d like, especially compared with Read who they see as the much safer bet.

He feels that Flanders disappears out of games far too often. Can rack up possessions in a hurry but in-game consistency is a significant issue. A Walter, Flanders and picks (not 2025 as they need them) would make sense for the Suns but probably doesn't get them Curnow unless it's the most we're offered. Thinks Carlton stand firm unless we get presented overs although he suggests it might be in our best interests to take the best offer available especially if it has someone like Jed or another high-level prospect in it.

He isn’t convinced on Charlie because of the injury history and his age, although he understands why the fit makes sense

Looking at Carlton from the outside, he reckons Graham Wright is held in very high regard and feels that we'll become a juggernaut with him in three to five years. He wasn’t surprised Michael Voss was retained either. His take was that the coaching market this year was thin and the chance to make a change was 12 months ago, but we couldn’t sack Voss after last season. He thinks we need a change in list management and recruiting. He is stunned we're locking up borderline best 22 talent for multiple seasons and thinks no other club would be signing those contracts.

e: I don't think there's anything here "rumour" worthy for the no discussion thread. Another perspective valid for a post though

Walter looks too cumbersome and lacks agility for the modern game