Politics Aussie Fascists, (neo)Nazis and Leg Spinners

[phantom13]

I’d be telling anyone who spoke to me like that on any issue they were no longer my friend.

It’s the tolerance of those views that allows them to propagate. Let those people know you don’t want to be friends with dickheads like that.

I argued (politely) the point for a bit but frankly the air of arrogance and continued insistance of "what you need to understand is" i just gave up.

Our kids are friends, ill avoid him moving forward. FWIW his wife is lovely.

 

[Cyber_punk]

I'd be surprised if there are many, if any, lefty cops.

Certain professions just attract a certain type of personality.

Even if they aren't right wing per se they will still be that 'centrist both sides are just as bad' type.

 

[Chief]

I think some cops are working out that they are not going to be able to pass anything on to their kids and are falling for the far-right marketing. Others are seeing it more clearly to varying degrees.

 

[the_interloper]

I argued (politely) the point for a bit but frankly the air of arrogance and continued insistance of "what you need to understand is" i just gave up.

Our kids are friends, ill avoid him moving forward. FWIW his wife is lovely.

This is why people stay away from religion and politics as a general rule, there are some people you really need to get along with, parents of kids mates are one example.

 

[phantom13]

This is why people stay away from religion and politics as a general rule, there are some people you really need to get along with, parents of kids mates are one example.

He pushed into that convo, not me, he also spent alot of time defending the cops prior to that to (we live in the west so YOOF CRIME comes up alot).

 

[FlowersByIrene]

 

[phantom13]

Its good that youre being introspective FBI. I for one, congratulate you.

 

[the_interloper]

He pushed into that convo, not me, he also spent alot of time defending the cops prior to that to (we live in the west so YOOF CRIME comes up alot).

Yeah it's a tough one that. I work in sales and have many conversations with blokes, some of them go into sensitive areas, I try not to comment too much. Sometimes when you're a "straight white bloke" people assume you think a certain way and are comfortable to share their views, I mean I'm probably right of centre but not too far.

 

[BFew]

Surely the National Socialist Network (NSN) has long been infiltrated by law enforcement or some federal authority.

Hopefully they'll be getting a bit paranoid about each other, and turn on each other at some point to lesson the risks to the rest of Australia.

Neo-Nazi leader Thomas Sewell's henchman exposed as a cop's son

Nathan Bull was once a baby-faced junior member of the National Socialist Network but burst into the spotlight when he donned a mouthguard to storm an Indigenous campsite with his neo-Nazi mates.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Yeah it's a tough one that. I work in sales and have many conversations with blokes, some of them go into sensitive areas, I try not to comment too much. Sometimes when you're a "straight white bloke" people assume you think a certain way and are comfortable to share their views, I mean I'm probably right of centre but not too far.

National Sales Network

 

[GhostofJimJess]

This is why people stay away from religion and politics as a general rule, there are some people you really need to get along with, parents of kids mates are one example.

I think it's important that these dangerous extremist views are called out, but it needs to be done in a manner that isn't perceived as being derogatory and doesn't, dare I say it, emasculate these blokes (and it's generally blokes).

That's not saying that they don't deserve to be demeaned. But the whole point of the exercise is not to further disenfranchise but to hopefully re-enfranchise (is that a word?). If you lose them by belittling their views, the game's over straight away. And you can't get the shit back into the horse then.

The conversation/debate needs to be framed in a way that will not be perceived as them being put down, but have them start to question their own convictions. Maybe by first finding some common ground, and then by subtly pointing out some contradictions in their thinking.

All the while, having a suitable return location if the discussion gets too disparate. A bit like systematic de-sensitisation is used to overcome phobias by gradually exposing the sufferer to greater degrees of their phobia, but always providing a safe retreat strategy if they lose their shit.

I've got a few specific strategies that I use, which work to varying degrees, but it needs to be fairly nuanced and they don't tend to cut it with the more extreme cooker types. Not that I'd normally have much to do with them anyway.

By the way, it's very difficult to achieve this on a forum such as BigFooty or by texts/emails etc. Mostly I don't even try that nowadays - the ignore function is deployed a bit more these days. It needs to be in a spontaneous and non-remote conversation where tone, facial expression, eye contact, body language etc can all play their part. If they have too much time to "think" they'll just go back to their default responses which are hard-wired.

 

[Gethelred]

I’d be telling anyone who spoke to me like that on any issue they were no longer my friend.

It’s the tolerance of those views that allows them to propagate. Let those people know you don’t want to be friends with dickheads like that.

This isolates them, taking them further into the bind of fascists and ultra nationalists.


There's a line from a protest album from a while back, concerning the activist Anne Brayden:

Imagine the world that you're standing within
All of your neighbors and family and friends
How would you cope facing the fact
The flesh on your hand was tainted with sin?
She faced it every day
People she saw on a regular basis
People she loved in several cases
People she knew were incredibly racist
It was painful
But she never stopped loving them
Never stopped calling their name
And she never stopped being a southern woman
And she never stopped fighting for change
And she saw that her struggle was in the tradition
Of ancestors never aware of her
It continues today, the soul of a southerner
Born of the other America

You cannot be an ally by isolating those who need you specifically to bring them kicking and screaming to the collective. Isolating them ensures their views harden, their only support to the outside world gone.

It's easier to simply cut them from your life. It's also not right.

No: you need to engage, and you need to be willing to hard stop a torrent of bile. You need to be willing to make contact with people who won't make contact with you. It is unfortunately the only way to stop cults and cult adjescent groups from just outright claiming the lives of those we love.

I appreciate that this is also awful advice for people in abusive relationships, which to an extent this can replicate. It's a sliding scale of things: is the damage done to your life worth completely abandoning them to hate and indoctrination?

 

[Not Important]

take the time to watch milbo's video of the cowardly scum who hunt in packs and who carried out the attack and assaults. why weren't the police stopping them? this was affray. and people walking the streets with weapons is an offence.

 

[Vassp]

Yeah it's a tough one that. I work in sales and have many conversations with blokes, some of them go into sensitive areas, I try not to comment too much. Sometimes when you're a "straight white bloke" people assume you think a certain way and are comfortable to share their views, I mean I'm probably right of centre but not too far.

Feel the same way, interesting what people bring up, and sometimes you gotta play with a straight bat and sometimes gotta let go through to the keeper, and on rare occasions you say F it.

 

[the_interloper]

Feel the same way, interesting what people bring up, and sometimes you gotta play with a straight bat and sometimes gotta let go through to the keeper, and on rare occasions you say F it.

It depends on how well I know them in all honesty. I have a bloke I work with who has a lot of, eh, rather right views, I'm happy to call him out on it though which I do often. I'd have to know a customer pretty well to do that, otherwise I ignore and don't amplify pretty much.

 

[Vassp]

It depends on how well I know them in all honesty. I have a bloke I work with who has a lot of, eh, rather right views, I'm happy to call him out on it though which I do often. I'd have to know a customer pretty well to do that, otherwise I ignore and don't amplify pretty much.

It's a tough call, cause they want to get it out there, and you're like Hmmmm......

Most of the guys I work with are mostly on the right.
But I went out last Friday (first time in ages- and a friend i havent seen in years, is as far right as you can get.
found some common ground, but some of his stuff is too out there even for me.

 

[bourbons]

Just love that you've posted this thinking it applies to others, superb

 

[phantom13]

This isolates them, taking them further into the bind of fascists and ultra nationalists.


There's a line from a protest album from a while back, concerning the activist Anne Brayden:

You cannot be an ally by isolating those who need you specifically to bring them kicking and screaming to the collective. Isolating them ensures their views harden, their only support to the outside world gone.

It's easier to simply cut them from your life. It's also not right.

No: you need to engage, and you need to be willing to hard stop a torrent of bile. You need to be willing to make contact with people who won't make contact with you. It is unfortunately the only way to stop cults and cult adjescent groups from just outright claiming the lives of those we love.

I appreciate that this is also awful advice for people in abusive relationships, which to an extent this can replicate. It's a sliding scale of things: is the damage done to your life worth completely abandoning them to hate and indoctrination?

I always sort of felt this way but im not sure it still works.

Take the rally, those people were marching alongside Nazis claiming mass immigration is the cause of all societys problems.

If the Nazi thing didnt make them reconsider and allllllll the many experts and stats showing that not only do migrants not cause those issues but also migration is both down and not unrestricted then i dont think theyre gonna listen to anything anyone says, weve even seen it on this board.

I tried to a degree (very politely given the setting) to note these things but was rebuffed with a constant "what you dont understand is its an emotional thing, you cant be logical".

Cool, i can accept emotional decisions to a degree but how long does that apply? Cause if went to bed, woke up, got dressed, got on a train, got in, marched alongside the Nazis and STILL was emotionally blinded then im not really fit to be living in society.

I get needing to engage and show empathy and understanding but i dont think it works anymore and certainly not in this extreme.

 

[faible]

I always sort of felt this way but im not sure it still works.

Take the rally, those people were marching alongside Nazis claiming mass immigration is the cause of all societys problems.

If the Nazi thing didnt make them reconsider and allllllll the many experts and stats showing that not only do migrants not cause those issues but also migration is both down and not unrestricted then i dont think theyre gonna listen to anything anyone says, weve even seen it on this board.

I tried to a degree (very politely given the setting) to note these things but was rebuffed with a constant "what you dont understand is its an emotional thing, you cant be logical".

Cool, i can accept emotional decisions to a degree but how long does that apply? Cause if went to bed, woke up, got dressed, got on a train, got in, marched alongside the Nazis and STILL was emotionally blinded then im not really fit to be living in society.

I get needing to engage and show empathy and understanding but i dont think it works anymore and certainly not in this extreme.

There was a good AMA on Reddit with an author of a book on fascism where he responded to a question about talking to people who hold fascist views.

He basically said that once their views reach a certain point, there's no real benefit from engaging with them until they come to their own realisation. Unless it's a very close person to you e.g. a child or a parent who might listen. Just accept that they're a fascist and move on.

From a quick scroll through these were the two posts:

 

[western royboy]

take the time to watch milbo's video of the cowardly scum who hunt in packs and who carried out the attack and assaults. why weren't the police stopping them? this was affray. and people walking the streets with weapons is an offence.

If you think that some members of the police and ex military aren’t associated with these mobs then you are missing some really big cues

 

[Gralin]

There was a good AMA on Reddit with an author of a book on fascism where he responded to a question about talking to people who hold fascist views.

He basically said that once their views reach a certain point, there's no real benefit from engaging with them until they come to their own realisation. Unless it's a very close person to you e.g. a child or a parent who might listen. Just accept that they're a fascist and move on.

From a quick scroll through these were the two posts:

a trump supporter killed his dad recently for "treason" for not holding the same views about Trump as he did

he then cut off his head and made a youtube video to warn others their time was up

its not just a question of whether they will listen to you, its a question sometimes of whether its safe to even try sadly

 

[faible]

a trump supporter killed his dad recently for "treason" for not holding the same views about Trump as he did

he then cut off his head and made a youtube video to warn others their time was up

its not just a question of whether they will listen to you, its a question sometimes of whether its safe to even try sadly

Definitely, that author mentions safety quite a few times too. It's probably not common that it's a parent being unsafe from the child, but it shows that there's a very real world danger from these people.

 

[Gralin]

Definitely, that author mentions safety quite a few times too. It's probably not common that it's a parent being unsafe from the child, but it shows that there's a very real world danger from these people.

A recent look at femicide in the UK from 2022 deaths showed more women were killed by their sons than by strangers

There's certainly plenty of history both ways regarding family violence

I think one of the issues is the question of how many people are actually equipped to have that conversation with someone who is radicalised in that way

I'd say not many

That's not saying you can't talk to people and try but yeah you gotta be careful and I wouldn't think the cop parent of a toddler friend is in the list of people you'd try that on with

nor would I think you'd do a Schneebly and tell them to their face they're disgusting and you won't be associating with them anymore

 

[faible]

A recent look at femicide in the UK from 2022 deaths showed more women were killed by their sons than by strangers

There's certainly plenty of history both ways regarding family violence

I think one of the issues is the question of how many people are actually equipped to have that conversation with someone who is radicalised in that way

I'd say not many

That's not saying you can't talk to people and try but yeah you gotta be careful and I wouldn't think the cop parent of a toddler friend is in the list of people you'd try that on with

nor would I think you'd do a Schneebly and tell them to their face they're disgusting and you won't be associating with them anymore

Unfortunately, it's probably necessary for parents of young boys to understand how to have that conversation. Sounds like too many of them are being taken in by the right-wing griftosphere.

We mostly laugh at a guy like FBI, but he's a genuine pro-authoritarian. What messages did he consume growing up? What messages is he passing on to people around him?

 

[phantom13]

A recent look at femicide in the UK from 2022 deaths showed more women were killed by their sons than by strangers

There's certainly plenty of history both ways regarding family violence

I think one of the issues is the question of how many people are actually equipped to have that conversation with someone who is radicalised in that way

I'd say not many

That's not saying you can't talk to people and try but yeah you gotta be careful and I wouldn't think the cop parent of a toddler friend is in the list of people you'd try that on with

nor would I think you'd do a Schneebly and tell them to their face they're disgusting and you won't be associating with them anymore

I just wanna be clear, i was very happy in the safe dad talk space and he raised bail laws, home invasion laws and then the rally.

I very politely engaged and very politely disagreed on the rallies, i didnt really bother with the others, as a cop hes likely more knowledgable about the police role in both things anyway.