List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
​

 

[stfan]

yeah have to agree with you there phantom, JSOS is a tough pill to swallow when I look past the rose tinted glasses of *ing Carlton over. Money aside, i don't think we needed him and while i obviously hope it works, you have to wonder what percentage of that acquisition was fueled by SOS's need to * over the blues aha.

SOS was not in the loop to decide on JSOS.


I really do not get this theory that he would **** over his old club at the expenses of his current club.

Moreso as this is his second stint at StKilda.

 

[jimmytigs]

Not gonna lie, cats players are a bit of a conundrum. Aside from the obvious superstars in Jezza, Baz, Holmes, etc a lot of the players play well above their "talent" due to the system they have got. I can't think of many players who have done better since leaving the cats. Tim Kelly stands out as a prime example to me. Clohesy is probably the best one, as you mentioned.

miers dempsey osullivan humphries also very unlikely and if miers joined us i would have to stop hoping he gets absoloutely buried every week,hate him,but is a good player

sdk
bruhn(under a cloud with legal issues)
knevitt
clark
clohesy
stevens

look the most likely,id love sdk personally,clohesy was the guy i quoteds pick,but someone else also picked him out as well,so seems he would be a popular option,knevitt clark stevens just have gop delisted in 2-3 years written all over them,bruhn could be handy if whatever his off field issues are now behind him

 

[phantom13]

Re Fincher: The 2 picks we have now are likely to come in a fair bit. So we will either have the points or be just short that we can take the deficit into next year or need a third rounders to match.

Remember, for each matched bid: we go up one position but a minimum of 2 picks will be required to match based on the DVI

Weve got 7, 43 and 58 for this year.

Its gonna depend where hes bid on, hasnt he come in a bit?

Obviously id rather Geelongs first (or future first TBH) but to me getting a second for a guy who has no place in a best fit 23 is a reasonable outcome. Others may disagree and plenty seem to think we can play two rucks (in spite of no other team doing that) which is fine.

To be clear if we turn Roma into Fincher and keep our first im fine with that outcome (even keep a late pick for a flyer). If we turn Roma into Flanders even better. If we turn Roma into next years first for the cats best possible outcome.

 

[stavro#4]

yeah have to agree with you there phantom, JSOS is a tough pill to swallow when I look past the rose tinted glasses of *ing Carlton over. Money aside, i don't think we needed him and while i obviously hope it works, you have to wonder what percentage of that acquisition was fueled by SOS's need to * over the blues aha.

Thought this was interesting.

From left to right.

JSOS Battle Wilkie

 

[phantom13]

SOS was not in the loop to decide on JSOS.


I really do not get this theory that he would **** over his old club at the expenses of his current club.

Moreso as this is his second stint at StKilda.

Lol, i know what the club has said but youre absolutely kidding yourself if you think SOS had nothing to do with it.

 

[stavro#4]

Weve got 7, 43 and 58 for this year.

Its gonna depend where hes bid on, hasnt he come in a bit?

Obviously id rather Geelongs first (or future first TBH) but to me getting a second for a guy who has no place in a best fit 23 is a reasonable outcome. Others may disagree and plenty seem to think we can play two rucks (in spite of no other team doing that) which is fine.

To be clear if we turn Roma into Fincher and keep our first im fine with that outcome (even keep a late pick for a flyer). If we turn Roma into Flanders even better. If we turn Roma into next years first for the cats best possible outcome.

Twomey is the most optimistic and that’s late 20s/early 30s still.

 

[gubby88]

Aleer made sense to me as a target for the system defense we play.

Where it gets confusing to me is Aleer and JSOS as two talls into our system with Howard/Camma, Wilkie and Tauru already in.

I cant see how a backline with Aleer, Wilkie, Howard/Camma, JSOS and Tauru really works and if the solutuon is Tauru goes forward the i cant see how a forward line with King, Sharman, Owens, Tauru/Camma works.

Anyway its a good problem to have but i wonder what the longer term issues might be.

I think with the new first touch rule, there will be alot more bombing in from the free kicks, so the interceptor floating across is going to be more prevalant than the grapple defender in the future

 

[phantom13]

View attachment 2420991View attachment 2420993

Thought this was interesting.

From left to right.

JSOS Battle Wilkie

I dont dislike JSOS i just think it should have been him or Aleer, not both.

 

[stavro#4]

SOS was not in the loop to decide on JSOS.


I really do not get this theory that he would **** over his old club at the expenses of his current club.

Moreso as this is his second stint at StKilda.

Lol, i know what the club has said but youre absolutely kidding yourself if you think SOS had nothing to do with it.

SOS 100% knew.

Where I think he was left out of, was the final decision (Ross) and the contract discussions (Gubby)

 

[phantom13]

Twomey is the most optimistic and that’s late 20s/early 30s still.

Yeh i mean my point still remains.

Roma to me is a pick for a player who isnt playing ones. Be it to get Fincher or take another player im fine with it.

Obviously id rather Geelongs first or future, i just wouldnt say no to their second (noting im sure the club will)

 

[phantom13]

SOS 100% knew.

Where I think he was left out of, was the final decision (Ross) and the contract discussions (Gubby)

Frankly it would be negligent to not use the natural in and knowledge that exists there anyway.

I get why the club adressed it but i cant believe anyone would believe it.

 

[SG34]

The fact that he’s under contract with us would mean they can’t do anything.

Geelong can offer all the extras in the world and Rowan’s contract can be $0 this year because we paid it all in previous years but again, he’s under contract so we can tell Geelong to ****ing off back down the highway.

I don’t see that as anything but a technicality. Marshall’s managers still have levers to pull, and can get to work sooon enough, especially if Marshall is given incentives.

 

[PJays]

Roma to me is a pick for a player who isnt playing ones.

He'll be playing ones. Especially if they remove the sub rule with 5 on the bench.

Ryder and Marshall was incredible. If TDK/Marshall is version 2, it'll go a long way towards pushing us up the ladder.

Plus, haven't people been complaining for years that we don't have a sufficient 2nd ruck option?

Having Marshall and TDK means we've still got a good option if the other's injured.

 

[Sully111]

Ross admitted late in the year that it's difficult to play both Steele and MaCrae in the same midfield.

Steele's last two seasons have been poor and going south. I'd be surprised if he was given the captaincy again next year and after that his spot is not guaranteed.

To me, trading Steele makes a lot of sense.

 

[stavro#4]

I dont dislike JSOS i just think it should have been him or Aleer, not both.

Yeah I’m not sure what they have planned. So will be interesting.

 

[FQFjt]

Lol, i know what the club has said but youre absolutely kidding yourself if you think SOS had nothing to do with it.

I disagree. Allowing SOS any role whatsoever in the decision making surrounding his son would be such an egregious conflict of interest, and so antithetical to the cold blooded professionalism that Bassat has been preaching since the sacking of Ratten, that I just cannot believe it would have occurred. If anything, JSOS would have had to pass even higher hurdles to get the tick of approval given the situation with his dad.

 

[stavro#4]

I disagree. Allowing SOS any role whatsoever in the decision making surrounding his son would be such an egregious conflict of interest, and so antithetical to the cold blooded professionalism that Bassat has been preaching since the sacking of Ratten, that I just cannot believe it would have occurred. If anything, JSOS would have had to pass even higher hurdles to get the tick of approval given the situation with his dad.

I think sos was the in.

The decision would have been RTBs alone.

The actual contract negotiations would have been Gubby.

Thus no conflict of interest.

 

[L_W_P]

There aren't too many sides in recent times that have bottomed out for years and had success. Melbourne probably the only one.

ITs a hard one to gauge because the system has been ****ed with so much in the last 10 years.

Right now we have pick 7 and our 2nd pick would have been 25.

Now add in:
WCE band 1 compo for Allen
Essendon band 1 for Draper
Carlton band 1 for TDK
GC Academy x 2
BL Academy x 1

And our first pick is now at 13 with our nominal 2nd rounder at 31!

Then drop in:
Carlton band 2 for JSOS
Potential WCE assistance picks x 2

And our 2nd pick would fall to 33.

How the **** is a team meant to bring in talent with just picks 13 + 33?

 

[phantom13]

I don’t see that as anything but a technicality. Marshall’s managers still have levers to pull, and can get to work sooon enough, especially if Marshall is given incentives.

His contract is a technicality?

Ahhh no, its definitely not.

I obviously think if he asks to go he will and i generally think thats the rule but we can hold him to his contract if we want, theres no way out of that. The AFL cant intervene here because there is nothing to intervene with.

He'll be playing ones. Especially if they remove the sub rule with 5 on the bench.

Ryder and Marshall was incredible. If TDK/Marshall is version 2, it'll go a long way towards pushing us up the ladder.

Plus, haven't people been complaining for years that we don't have a sufficient 2nd ruck option?

Having Marshall and TDK means we've still got a good option if the other's injured.

I dont agree at all. I dont really see why teams would suddenly want to play another ruck when there will be less ruck contests (even without that rule i doubt it happens).

If the argument is keep him as a backup then thats fine but id rather not plus Dodson looked absolutely capable as a backup if TDK needs a rest for a couple of games.

 

[Joffaboy]

This is a massive oversimplification of it.

That's your opinion. I just stated the facts.
1. Contracted
2. Front end loaded already
3. Lyon and Saints have stated they want to be a good club and good clubs don't trade out contracted players.
Stuff about age (29 for a ruck is still young) emotive stuff about 'banged up' ( I haven't seen this and game stats don't bare it out since 2021 the lowest number of games played in a season is 21 (21, 24, 23,23).
I don't want the world, but a fair trade for a contracted ruck in his prime that plays almost every game.
If we don't get what we want, experiment in 2026 and if it doesn't work we can trade him with a year on his contract and still get what you are asking for him now.

 

[stavro#4]

Yeh i mean my point still remains.

Roma to me is a pick for a player who isnt playing ones. Be it to get Fincher or take another player im fine with it.

Obviously id rather Geelongs first or future, i just wouldnt say no to their second (noting im sure the club will)

Look, you and I disagree on this.

He is still an elite ruck - who we have had great success with playing in tandem with another and playing forward.

If he leaves. You still need good return. Which nothing picks are not

 

[BrutThough]

What rule change? Less ruck contests? Not sure how that supports playing another ruck?

Its not about propping up Geelong, we dont have a second round pick and we seem to want Fincher. Obviously id prefer their first, my post made that clear, what id personally do versus what the club will do arent the same thing.

Hes not gonna gain more value by the end of next year, who cares what weve paid him, its all money off the books.

Sure.

We dont need a 2nd round for Fincher. He's projected late 2nd as it is and we will be able to get him with points from late picks

The suggestion of Trading Marshall for a pick to take Fincher is essentially suggesting we lose Marshall for nothing since we can get Fincher already.

 

[phantom13]

I disagree. Allowing SOS any role whatsoever in the decision making surrounding his son would be such an egregious conflict of interest, and so antithetical to the cold blooded professionalism that Bassat has been preaching since the sacking of Ratten, that I just cannot believe it would have occurred. If anything, JSOS would have had to pass even higher hurdles to get the tick of approval given the situation with his dad.

It would be negligent to not include the list manager in any list management decision.

We also keep hearing about the saints mafia being involved in this shit, ruthlessness professionalism is about using every trick and tactic in the book to explot advantages not being totally scupulous in every instance.

Id be more disappointed if SOS had nothing to do with it at all but alas, there is no way that happened.

 

[The_Steadier]

if the solutuon is Tauru goes forward the i cant see how a forward line with King, Sharman, Owens, Tauru/Camma works.

We are going balls out to try and win a flag in the next 3 years.

When you are doing that- development of kids takes a backseat.

(If everyone is fit) Tauru, caminiti and collard play 2's- learning their craft either fwd or back.

It's harsh- but all are still v young.

If they can (through dominant performances in the vfl) push past the likes of owens, sharman, aleer, ryan- then they come into the best 22 at their expense.

Pushing talented young players like tauru, caminiti, collard down to being vfl depth is how you get closer to a flag.

The strategy I think is to light a giant bonfire under the list for competition for spots in the best 22.

Young players like caminiti,tauru, dodson, collard etc will be in the 2's- but breathing down the necks of sharman, owens, ryan, aleer etc.

End result is everyone working like maniacs to win us lots of games

 

[phantom13]

Look, you and I disagree on this.

He is still an elite ruck - who we have had great success with playing in tandem with another and playing forward.

If he leaves. You still need good return. Which nothing picks are not

Did we?

We won one final with two rucks (i cant even recall if that game actually had two rucks) and the league history would support my argument not yours.

If Roma or TDK looked like Luke Jackson MAYBE i could get onboard with it but neither of them do and no other team is playing two first choice rucks.