List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
​

 

[L_W_P]

Also I'm fine with the JSOS move. His issues have been injuries, not talent/form.

He's the perfect swingman IMO.

 

[Minga]

Well whether next year is a success or failure there’s no doubt it’s gonna be entertaining and dramatic as shit.

Starting in 3 weeks baby

 

[phantom13]

We are going balls out to try and win a flag in the next 3 years.

When you are doing that- development of kids takes a backseat.

(If everyone is fit) Tauru, caminiti and collard play 2's- learning their craft either fwd or back.

It's harsh- but all are still v young.

If they can (through dominant performances in the vfl) push past the likes of owens, sharman, aleer, ryan- then they come into the best 22 at their expense.

Pushing talented young players like tauru, caminiti, collard down to being vfl depth is how you get closer to a flag.

The strategy I think is to light a giant bonfire under the list for competition for spots in the best 22.

Young players like caminiti,tauru, dodson, collard etc will be in the 2's- but breathing down the necks of sharman, owens, ryan, aleer etc.

End result is everyone working like maniacs to win us lots of games

Sure, its high risk high reward, if we dont win flags alot of those talented youngsters leave for opportunity and youre left with old guys playing like shit.

Im not anti FAs and trade but IMO they should be complimentary to what you have, I think were going overbaord and every shiny new toy right now but there is also alot of water to go under the bridge.

 

[phantom13]

That's your opinion. I just stated the facts.
1. Contracted
2. Front end loaded already
3. Lyon and Saints have stated they want to be a good club and good clubs don't trade out contracted players.
Stuff about age (29 for a ruck is still young) emotive stuff about 'banged up' ( I haven't seen this and game stats don't bare it out since 2021 the lowest number of games played in a season is 21 (21, 24, 23,23).
I don't want the world, but a fair trade for a contracted ruck in his prime that plays almost every game.
If we don't get what we want, experiment in 2026 and if it doesn't work we can trade him with a year on his contract and still get what you are asking for him now.

He actually said good clubs dont trade good players unless it benefits the club.

I think youre completely missing two things ive stated numerous times.

- Id do it if its what Roma wants. Some degree of care for a player who has given everything for us is good business especially when weve just brought ina guy on double his salary)

- Id do it for a second but i dont think the club will. My opinion on his value is just mine.

 

[gringo2011]

I dont dislike JSOS i just think it should have been him or Aleer, not both.

Gabelich just said Wilkie is still in play for the Dogs. Willing to go above the $1.5 million already offered. It could be that we lose Wilkie and the two end up fortunate additions.

 

[PJays]

I dont agree at all. I dont really see why teams would suddenly want to play another ruck when there will be less ruck contests

There won't be as many fewer as people think

it's only a free kick for non-deliberate, errant kicks and handballs within the arcs

Its not a strict "last touch" rule like basketball.

Contested situations will still be thrown in (which cause the majority of throw-ins), and existing rules will still apply within the 50m zones

Marshall is a good contested mark. There were 8 games in the Ryder era where he kicked 2 goals. Worth a try as a forward/ruck.

 

[stavro#4]

Did we?

We won one final with two rucks (i cant even recall if that game actually had two rucks) and the league history would support my argument not yours.

If Roma or TDK looked like Luke Jackson MAYBE i could get onboard with it but neither of them do and no other team is playing two first choice rucks.

We won over 60% of the games Roma and Ryder played together. The issue was Roma had plantar fasciitis in 2021 and Ryders body was falling apart in 21/22 which limited the amount of games we got.

The final you are referring to:
Ryder 9 disposals 2 goals 20 hitouts.
Marshall 11 disposals 10 hitouts 2 DIRECT GOAL ASSISTS

Remember these were also shortened games.

Ryder tore his hammy in the final minute of the game. Massive loss against a Richmond side we beat earlier in the season + the others who all missed the semi.

 

[gringo2011]

We are going balls out to try and win a flag in the next 3 years.

When you are doing that- development of kids takes a backseat.

(If everyone is fit) Tauru, caminiti and collard play 2's- learning their craft either fwd or back.

It's harsh- but all are still v young.

If they can (through dominant performances in the vfl) push past the likes of owens, sharman, aleer, ryan- then they come into the best 22 at their expense.

Pushing talented young players like tauru, caminiti, collard down to being vfl depth is how you get closer to a flag.

The strategy I think is to light a giant bonfire under the list for competition for spots in the best 22.

Young players like caminiti,tauru, dodson, collard etc will be in the 2's- but breathing down the necks of sharman, owens, ryan, aleer etc.

End result is everyone working like maniacs to win us lots of games

Yep, a lot of people's favourites will be in the VFL next year. Spots are getting lot tighter. Even quiet patches from guys like Sharman and Owens could send them back if other perform.

 

[Joffaboy]

We all saw how banged up the defence was this year. It was so lacking in depth that losing Battle and Howard's injury had us scrambling with Caminiti a makeshift back ( got better, but I see him as a forward) and fill ins like LOC and Arie trying to cover. Tauru will be good but is just learning the caper,and looked knackered at seasons end because he had zero preseason
The Aleer and JSOS recruitments sort of makes sense in that respect. We are just weak nd lack depth down back and that's why the Battle loss was such a disaster.

I am not a huge fan of Aleer but he was getting constant gigs in a GWS team and the powers that be at the Saints see potential so I will just have to go with the experts.

 

[Joffaboy]

He actually said good clubs dont trade good players unless it benefits the club.

I think youre completely missing two things ive stated numerous times.

- Id do it if its what Roma wants. Some degree of care for a player who has given everything for us is good business especially when weve just brought ina guy on double his salary)

- Id do it for a second but i dont think the club will. My opinion on his value is just mine.

Fair enough, agree to disagree.

 

[gringo2011]

He actually said good clubs dont trade good players unless it benefits the club.

I think youre completely missing two things ive stated numerous times.

- Id do it if its what Roma wants. Some degree of care for a player who has given everything for us is good business especially when weve just brought ina guy on double his salary)

- Id do it for a second but i dont think the club will. My opinion on his value is just mine.

It would be a terrible look and get a lot of fans off side. There are players that you can't afford to shove out the door. Just for pure optics we'd need to get something decent back through the door. Especially with him on a minimum contact.

 

[nikkig98]

View attachment 2420991View attachment 2420993

Thought this was interesting.

From left to right.

JSOS Battle Wilkie

Nice data there stav, what website is that from?

 

[phantom13]

We won over 60% of the games Roma and Ryder played together. The issue was Roma had plantar fasciitis in 2021 and Ryders body was falling apart in 21/22 which limited the amount of games we got.

The final you are referring to:
Ryder 9 disposals 2 goals 20 hitouts.
Marshall 11 disposals 10 hitouts 2 DIRECT GOAL ASSISTS

Remember these were also shortened games.

Ryder tore his hammy in the final minute of the game. Massive loss against a Richmond side we beat earlier in the season + the others who all missed the semi.

So massive sucess is one final won in a bizarre season and injury issues.

Also show me where any other team is doing this? Two teams recently took huge cap hits to move on the second ruckman cause it doesnt work.

 

[phantom13]

It would be a terrible look and get a lot of fans off side. There are players that you can't afford to shove out the door. Just for pure optics we'd need to get something decent back through the door. Especially with him on a minimum contact.

Where have i suggested shoving him out the door?

 

[PJays]

We won over 60% of the games Roma and Ryder played together. The issue was Roma had plantar fasciitis in 2021 and Ryders body was falling apart in 21/22 which limited the amount of games we got.

The final you are referring to:
Ryder 9 disposals 2 goals 20 hitouts.
Marshall 11 disposals 10 hitouts 2 DIRECT GOAL ASSISTS

Remember these were also shortened games.

Ryder tore his hammy in the final minute of the game. Massive loss against a Richmond side we beat earlier in the season + the others who all missed the semi.

Nankervis unfortunately beat Marshall pretty badly in the semi. With Ryder I think we would've been a sneaky chance of making the prelim.

Ryder was unbelievable that year. Finished 8th in our B&F but finished 3rd in votes-per-game.

King was big too, despite being so young It was aerial dominance with 3 effective talls (plus Howard a 4th) that won us many games- including The semi vs the Dogs. With of course, Steele dominating the centre square.

As much as I've criticised the TDK signing, if he can replicate Ryder's work, and he creates a similar pairing with Marshall, it'll bode very well for us over the next few years.

 

[phantom13]

There won't be as many fewer as people think

it's only a free kick for non-deliberate, errant kicks and handballs within the arcs

Its not a strict "last touch" rule like basketball.

Contested situations will still be thrown in (which cause the majority of throw-ins), and existing rules will still apply within the 50m zones

Marshall is a good contested mark. There were 8 games in the Ryder era where he kicked 2 goals. Worth a try as a forward/ruck.

No one is playing two rucks now, even if there are no less throw ins it wouldnt make sense

 

[SaintsofSteel]

Though Barass is only 194 in height.

JSOS is very good in one on ones. As is Wilkie. Both are also good interceptors, particularly Wilkie.

I would guess with Aleer they will use him as a high leaping interceptor and spolier. At present he does not have the footy smarts of Wilkie nor JSOS.

Barrass would also be 110kgs and is a bull, we have no one like that.

Both will get exposed playing on the big key forwards - JSOS was the 3rd tall at Carlton both forward and in defence.

 

[stavro#4]

Nice data there stav, what website is that from?

AFL Player Profile

AFL Player Profile

www.wheeloratings.com

Best place for all data. You can get very granular.

 

[Sully111]

I disagree. Allowing SOS any role whatsoever in the decision making surrounding his son would be such an egregious conflict of interest, and so antithetical to the cold blooded professionalism that Bassat has been preaching since the sacking of Ratten, that I just cannot believe it would have occurred. If anything, JSOS would have had to pass even higher hurdles to get the tick of approval given the situation with his dad.

Then respectfully, I have a bridge I’d like to sell you.

 

[Leap of Faith]

Look, you and I disagree on this.

He is still an elite ruck - who we have had great success with playing in tandem with another and playing forward.

If he leaves. You still need good return. Which nothing picks are not

Yep agree with this. Geelong's first, which will be well into the 20's, is nowhere near enough for ROMA.

 

[Verdun]

Jack Jumpers have set you up for high expectations. I reckon Port is the model you want. Mature state league side with some glitter on top and high picks. I could build them a competitive list from day one using that model but not just Tasmanians.

I'm a basketball nuffy so you may have a point, love the JJs but they have taken all the govt money for the sport and left none for grass roots from the government here (ie we need places to play). JJs have played smart and have been a marketing master class eg defend the island and played into our under dog status very well. The Jackjumpers have shown us that it can be done.

Will disagree with you that being competitive after 3 to 4 years is having a high expectation it should be the expectation and Tasmania can do that. We need to take off our small state chip on the shoulder and be proud of who we are and expect to knock of teams that do under estimate us.

It will not just be Tasmanians that is naive on our behalf to expect that but we will expect that we give Tasmanians a place to play. When we had the VFL team we had a couple of handy ex Saints in Jason Heatley and Jason Cripps along with some other inter staters like Jordan Doering who was a gun (only played one game with Essendon). Will also need some mature state league players as well.

 

[jimmytigs]

Have heard Dan butler could be headed to the suns, take it with a grain of salt but the bloke who told me was bang on about the Flanders info so

love this,no more billionaire tricks that result in turnovers that should be shots on goal,but didnt dimma give him the axx once already?

 

[stavro#4]

So massive sucess is one final won in a bizarre season and injury issues.

Also show me where any other team is doing this? Two teams recently took huge cap hits to move on the second ruckman cause it doesnt work.

In 2021 they only managed 7 games together.

We win 5 lost 2.

11 in 2022. We went 6-5. But that included the late season fade-outs where Essendon and Freo overrun us in the second half’s in games we should have won that ultimately played a part in changing the Ratten Narrative. We were 6-3 before those games. Ryder never played again and retired.

How can I show you what other clubs are doing? We are talking about future state 2026 where the bench will have 5

 

[Joffaboy]

Gabelich just said Wilkie is still in play for the Dogs. Willing to go above the $1.5 million already offered. It could be that we lose Wilkie and the two end up fortunate additions.

How do we lose Wilkie?

 

[phantom13]

In 2021 they only managed 7 games together.

We win 5 lost 2.

11 in 2022. We went 6-5. But that included the late season fade-outs where Essendon and Freo overrun us in the second half’s in games we should have won that ultimately played a part in changing the Ratten Narrative. We were 6-3 before those games. Ryder never played again and retired.

How can I show you what other clubs are doing? We are talking about future state 2026 where the bench will have 5

Its not a compelling argument to me when you have 4500 caveats on why its was super succesful except when it wasnt. Im not taking a shot at you here i just think youre on your line of it works and i dont agree.

You cant but you can see what clubs have done for the past 20 years. Personally i dont think one extra on the bench will mean another ruckman especially when the other rule is going to mean less ruck contests.