Roast St Kilda in no mans land - Part 2

[g_TRAIN]

No disputing that, which is why I'm in favour of it.

The salary cap is interesting, isn't it? I was always of the impression a club had to pay 93-95%. I suppose that's calculated in a variety of ways.

Either way, if it does pay off you'll have Richmond supporters crying foul about Simon Lethlean forever.

I think this post and the one it quotes explains the cap situation

List Mgmt. - 2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

:stkilda: 2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3 Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread. This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more. As we are now officially in our off-season...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[nineteen eighty]

No disputing that, which is why I'm in favour of it.

The salary cap is interesting, isn't it? I was always of the impression a club had to pay 93-95%. I suppose that's calculated in a variety of ways.

Either way, if it does pay off you'll have Richmond supporters crying foul about Simon Lethlean forever.

Why Lethlean? It's Dilena that would be behind the strategy as CEO.

This seriously could be a master stroke and will rewrite the recruitment playing rules if they succeed in a few years time (yes yes what is ultimate success?). I do think they kind of fell into this by accident as they were desperate to land someone so they kept throwing money until someone took the bait (TDK). And then NAS came along and there's no way they could pay him less than TDK. So he got his huge offer. And then Silvagni was available so there's more $$ to throw his way (of which they have plenty to do so as has been explained). And they still have lots to spend so off they go to get a small forward and another developing back.

Or was it a deliberate strategy where they planned this years raid from early days?

 

[Sully111]

We believe in our youth

 

[tiger_tough]

Because they're stuck in no mans land and cant afford to bottom out for a full rebuild but also are not a destination club. So they're weaponizing the only leg up that they have on most of the competition - cap space.

They're going to add TDK, Ryan, Aleer, Silvagni and possibly Flanders who are all walk up starts in their 22. Time will tell if it pays off, but I admire the fact they are being so aggressive and having a crack.

 

[Ricmel]

What do you think? Why are St Kilda topping up?

A few of reasons, among them

1. they had a lot of room in the cap and with unspent cap,
2. drafts are soon to be compromised by Tasmania entry,
3. they have finally got a good core of youth they can build around - NAS, Phillipou, Wilson, Travaglia, Tauru, King, Windhager (?), Boxshall, Hall.

I think Saints believe they are in the best position in 15 years to have a big throw at it. Personally, I am not 100% confident they have addressed the midfield but I guess that will paly out too.

 

[Ricmel]

It certainly is high risk -

It is sort of not.

What is the risk - that they aren't successful? That risk existed before they started trading in. That they have wasted money? Likewise, they had to spend it on someone after paying only 83% of cap in 25 and below 95% in 24.

It is almost like it would be more of a risk not to do it. Their youth looks pretty good - some of it proven (Nas, Owens, Windhager, Philipou, Hall) some of it looking very promising (Tauru, Travaglia, Dodson, Wilson, Boxshall, Garcia, Collard).

I think the club said we have the money, we have a good young group - this might be our best shot for a while to get a team into contention.

The bigger risk was probably sitting on our hands and continuing to rely on drafting (I think Saints have taken just about every pick to the draft since 2021).

 

[Mofra]

Because they're stuck in no mans land and cant afford to bottom out for a full rebuild but also are not a destination club. So they're weaponizing the only leg up that they have on most of the competition - cap space.

They're going to add TDK, Ryan, Aleer, Silvagni and possibly Flanders who are all walk up starts in their 22. Time will tell if it pays off, but I admire the fact they are being so aggressive and having a crack.

If they do manage to lure Flanders, he's the guy who moves the needle for them the most.
Good luck to them. Their fans deserve a little more success after all these years.

 

[GoPies1]

I can understand Geelong getting Bailey Smith. They're in a premiership window and were looking to fill a need in their midfield, hence they recruited a ready made player to have immediate impact in another premiership tilt.

Same with Hawthorn getting Josh Battle and Tom Barrass. Their premiership window had just opened, so they recruited ready made defenders to consolidate their progress.

St Kilda on the other hand have finished outside the top 8 in recent years, so why are they topping up with ready made players on big money? The likes of De Koning, Silvagni and Aleer are quite expensive in terms of salary cap space.

Part of the answer could be St Kilda's underperformance in recent years relative to other sides who went through rebuilds at the same time, while the other reason could be Ross Lyon trying to save his own bacon.

What do you think? Why are St Kilda topping up?

Because they have a group of young guns that will benefit from the more mature big bodied players they are getting.
Will be a good side 2026

 

[BomberManU]

If you have the 'base' of talented youth, isn't upgrading those above them the logical next step? Overpaying for some, but who cares, if they deliver.

 

[jumperfan]

If we don't move up the ladder in the next couple of years then Nas leaves, it's as simple as that. We've got the cash to spend and obvious holes all over the ground, might as well go all in for the next two seasons. If it all goes to shit then who cares, it's not like that hasn't already been happening for the last 150 years.

 

[JackFlash]

What choice do they have? They got Ross the boss back and nothing has really changed, this could be " the last throw of the dice" as our wonderful commentators love to say. Getting drafted by The Saints is hardly all that exciting for a young athlete hell bent on a successful AFL career. It's like winning the lottery, then losing the ticket!The Saints have to throw the big money around now or it could be the end of them? I wonder if anyone has already got in their ear?

 

[AFaiL]

What choice do they have? They got Ross the boss back and nothing has really changed, this could be " the last throw of the dice" as our wonderful commentators love to say. Getting drafted by The Saints is hardly all that exciting for a young athlete hell bent on a successful AFL career. It's like winning the lottery, then losing the ticket!The Saints have to throw the big money around now or it could be the end of them? I wonder if anyone has already got in their ear?

I sometimes really worry about the water supply in Sleepy Hollow

 

[Plat the Rat]

 

[demondavey]

How will they play TDK and Marshall together? What’s the approach? Can Marshall play forward? He’ll need to be able to. We did this with Grundy and it was an epic bust.

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

How will they play TDK and Marshall together? What’s the approach? Can Marshall play forward? He’ll need to be able to. We did this with Grundy and it was an epic bust.

Marshall did play forward when we had Ryder.

 

[DocSholl]

I can understand Geelong getting Bailey Smith. They're in a premiership window and were looking to fill a need in their midfield, hence they recruited a ready made player to have immediate impact in another premiership tilt.

Same with Hawthorn getting Josh Battle and Tom Barrass. Their premiership window had just opened, so they recruited ready made defenders to consolidate their progress.

These are also two clubs that will always be in the mix when top players in their prime want to.move clubs.

It's much more difficult to rebuild through the draft given how compromised they now are, so a club like St Kilda can really only move the needle by really nailing their picks (NWM) and by throwing cash around.

They're realistically never going to be in the mix when the next Bailey Smith, Dan Houston, Jeremy Cameron, Josh Battle etc trade request or free agency move happens. So may as well swing for the next level of player.

 

[Upgrayedd]

Club wants to improve list

I am SHOCKED someone's finally brave enough to challenge this narrative, and would favour somehow nabbing 3/4 quality AFL ready players in one draft with blue chip picks like pick 10, 8 and 7 over a 3 year period is a surefire way to bring the club upto competing in finals

They aren't a ultimate destination club for good players who want to play finals, They have to draw players via "Hey, we have a defined role for you with more money then you will earn currently where you are" It's their way to recruit unless you expect them to nail 4/5 draft picks every year

And yeah, if they manage to pick up Koning/Silvagni/Aleer/Ryan and maybe 2 of them suffer injuries, 3 dont play to their current form with a little struggle of new enviroment, they'll get clowned

And yeah last two teams to do something like this (Essendon and Kangaroos) it fell flat, Doesn't mean its not the safest way to bolster a list.

 

[Scotland]

St Kilda are topping up because according to their supporters they have to.

Tom Barrass

37

Tom Barrass

Age

30

Ht

197cm

Wt

96kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.2

3star

K

8.8

3star

HB

3.4

3star

M

6.1

5star

T

0.9

3star

MG

158.5

3star

D

10.1

3star

K

8.0

3star

HB

2.1

2star

M

5.6

5star

T

0.3

1star

MG

139.6

2star

D

11.4

3star

K

7.2

3star

HB

4.2

4star

M

5.2

5star

T

0.4

3star

MG

160.0

3star

is definitely topping up. You don't give up a first round pick even though it's not going to be a good one to get a guy turning 30 unless you think you are contending. Not sure about Bailey Smith

3

Bailey Smith

Age

25

Ht

185cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.3

5star

K

8.5

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.3

2star

T

3.8

5star

CL

2.7

4star

D

19.8

5star

K

9.6

4star

HB

10.2

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

3.2

4star

CL

3.2

4star

D

14.8

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

7.2

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

3.4

5star

CL

1.6

4star

. He's not even 25 yet so would fit any list profile if you are in the market for a dickhead who can kick a footy.

As far as the Saints go there is nothing wrong with adding 25-30 year olds to the list but at at what cost? Nas is awesome (well he's had one awesome year) but I wouldn't feel too comfortable having $5-6m tied up in Nas, TDK, Silvagni, Aleer and Ryan the next 3-5 years.

 

[joe444]

Why Lethlean? It's Dilena that would be behind the strategy as CEO.

If I were not making fun of Richmond supporters, sure.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

Where is this finishing is the question

FB: Tauru, Wilkie, Stocker
HB: Silvagni, Aleer, Sinclair
C: Hill, Steele, Wilson
HF: Ryan, Sharman, Hall
FF: Marshall, King, Higgins
R: TDK, NWM, Windhager
I/C: Travaglia, Boxshall, Phillipou, Garcia, Wood

Looks 6-10 to me which Is improvement on now

 

[Cyber_punk]

Does Ross have the game plan capable of a flag? He couldn't get it done with 5 all Australians with the Saints in 2009/10 and another 5 for Freo in 2013.

He is in year 4 and knows he needs immediate wins or the wolves will be at the door.

 

[jumperfan]

St Kilda are topping up because according to their supporters they have to.

Tom Barrass is definitely topping up. You don't give up a first round pick even though it's not going to be a good one to get a guy turning 30 unless you think you are contending. Not sure about Bailey Smith. He's not even 25 yet so would fit any list profile if you are in the market for a dickhead who can kick a footy.

As far as the Saints go there is nothing wrong with adding 25-30 year olds to the list but at at what cost? Nas is awesome (well he's had one awesome year) but I wouldn't feel too comfortable having $5-6m tied up in Nas, TDK, Silvagni, Aleer and Ryan the next 3-5 years.

The alternative is we do nothing and lose all the banked cap space we had. If we continue on this trajectory we aren’t making finals in the next couple of years meaning Nas will leave at the end of his contract, setting us back further.

 

[Mat Mann]

Where is this finishing is the question

FB: Tauru, Wilkie, Stocker
HB: Silvagni, Aleer, Sinclair
C: Hill, Steele, Wilson
HF: Ryan, Sharman, Hall
FF: Marshall, King, Higgins
R: TDK, NWM, Windhager
I/C: Travaglia, Boxshall, Phillipou, Garcia, Wood

Looks 6-10 to me which Is improvement on now

Add possibly Flanders as well
Missed Macrea, Owens, Howard(instead of Aleer) and Camaniti

But bolded are players who didn't play this year ( noting Pou did, but underdone after ongoing long-term injury)

Still, that 6th-8th would be the target next year, but 2027 on when the majority of the kids are 3rd to 5th year, is where I expect the improvement to come on

 

[Yellow Feathers]

Where is this finishing is the question

FB: Tauru, Wilkie, Stocker
HB: Silvagni, Aleer, Sinclair
C: Hill, Steele, Wilson
HF: Ryan, Sharman, Hall
FF: Marshall, King, Higgins
R: TDK, NWM, Windhager
I/C: Travaglia, Boxshall, Phillipou, Garcia, Wood

Looks 6-10 to me which Is improvement on now

Take Marshall and Windy out of that lineup

 

[jumperfan]

Take Marshall and Windy out of that lineup

Both staying